btw,,those red heads made 1200hp and went into the 47' wellcraft.and there still running.also refreshed the owners 1075 heads that go into his 46' outerlimits.we figure we have run the length of the east coast at 5500 +rpm.:D

Cant argue with results.

What do you run for guide clearances on your marine engines ?

.0015 intake and ,0022-.0025 exhaust depending on hp level.

What do you mean ...He runs em out of the box.. :D

So putting them on out of the box ready to run custom ordered is not advised...???

I check everything and make sure it's what I ordered
And yes I have found things wrong with every aftermarket head
So it pays to check them out

Really? I live in NASCAR country and have been in many of the shops. Quite a few Serdis around those shops. NASCAR might turn right only once a year, but they are still high level engines.

Next time I will just order bare a build them, then I know what they are.... Lesson learned... No reason to buy assembled heads if you have to take them apart and make them what you wanted...

I remember you saying they were tight. What did your valve stem and guide diameters measure out to? Stem issue or guide issue?

Valve stems can vary from one manufacturer to another so it's really never a stem issue unless of course you have one odd ball...which is why it's always good to check them all. Typically you just size the guide to the stem, whatever it is. If the valves are used, then of course they need to be measured for wear.

If your asking me .001 intake .0012 exhaust out of the box, now .0020 intake and .0022 exh

WAY more than necessary, especially on the intakes, IMO.

I set them upbthebwaybeverynotjer marine engine I ever had has been set up, I run my boat in cold water as early as April 40 degree water and want to make sure I have no issues. Last 2 sets of engines been the same over 10 years no issues. Now tight I have had issues...I did what I know works

That's fine, I'm just sayin... .0015-16 on the intakes is plenty, and .0018-<.0020 is plenty on the ex. I consider more than .002 "worn", but that's just me. Excessive guide clearance is like excessive cylinder clearance. Some guys like to run things "loose". Kind of a preference thing I guess.

My AFR 385 V2's were .0018 across the board on all 16. Had 4 checked in one shop and the rest in another everything was dead nuts the same. Both shops said the same thing. They had never seen a set of heads with everything so even across the board. I will get the Valve job checked on a Serdi in the next week or so to see what we have... Really for the money I paid for the complete heads I don't think I could have bought them bare then purchased the rest of the parts for that kind of money. If they need some extra work... Whatever. I'm happy with so far. T&D Steel shafts with .802 lift on the intake ended up with a great pattern on the valve. I'll let you guys in on the results of the valve job good or bad.

That would be a first for me. Very rarely do I see guide clearance on an AFR head much over .001". They used to be very consistent and straight, but something has changed lately and their guide work is not what it used to be. I think they changed guides, as well. Even with their tighter than ideal (for marine use) guides, I don't think you can get a better production head.

Interesting. The few friends I have that bought new AFR bbc heads, did not see .0018 guide clearance. Not surprising to me, as AFR themselves say they come tighter than that, in their own literature....and the ones that were checked, were in fact, tighter than that. The disclaimer from their afr "dealer" was , "Afr used smaller stem sizes, so that measurement was innaccurate, and the guide clearance needs to be checked with AFR's supplied valve". Ummmm, if you bought complete heads, wouldn't standard procedure be, to measure the stem of the valve the heads came with!?? What valve did this dealer think they were measureing? A valve out of a 1985 buick that was on the shelf?

Valve Guide Clearance:
Our typical valve guide clearances are .0013”-.0016”. In some severe applications (nitrous, marine endurance racing, or blower usage) looser guides might be required. Check with your engine builder.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/installation.php

With a Sunnen gauge you have to set the tool up with the valves then you can measure the guides.

Right, so I'm not understanding the "afr valve size" thing?

Can't help you with that one.

the bore sizing tool uses the valves that are going to be used as set up.lock the 2 valves into the zeroing block,then take the bore gauge and zero to the size/diameter of the valve.now go measure the clearance.very easy to set up.

also,the clearance is put into the part,in this case the valve.11/32" intake vale usually measures ~.342" so in a 11/32" guide it would have ~.00175" clearance,same goes for the exhaust vale,they usually measure in at ~.341.so thats why you use the valves in question for checking the guide clearance.

What do you generally see out of the AFR heads? When we measured mine @.0018 we thought we would measure a Brodix BB3 to compare. Guide clearance in them was .0013-.0017

On the last set of 335's
Intake were.0011-.0014,honed them to.0015 and exhausts were.0014-.0016,opened them up to.0022.motors were 950hp 540's vortex have.

What do these videos tell me? that I know Zero and am glad Al K is local lol

Sutphen, out of curiosity, what is a good exhaust guide clearance on a mild, normally aspirated 600-ish HP engine? Do you need to go quite as large on the clearance? Not talking about extremely cold water temps like Full Force operates in - usually 75* and warmer where I boat.

That's exactly correct !!!!! I have one and also a pointed small bore gauge....

When mine were measured I was informed the sunnen was not good enough or accurate enough, now it's ok to use gimme a fukkin break.....

.0013-4" on intake and exhaust .0018-9" exhaust,i use good hi temp vitron seals and never see the guides oil the ports.

I've been using one forever and a day.

My machinist has been in business 43 years... I TRUST him 120% .... I was told even with video proof of calibration and measuring that it was not a valid argument in my situation...

Have you used any brodix heads in the past on a high end build? Just wondering.

Tim, Is that response directed towards me ?Who said; it wasn't good enough or accurate enough and why ? Also what measuring instrument is recommended why and by who? If a company is measuring with a digital measuring device for production and QA, I hope that's not a expectation, expressed that every machine shop is supposed to have.
If Sunnen's bore gauges, guide measuring devices, rod measuring fixtures are not up to the job, I would like to know; what a majority of the machine shops are going to use.. I want to know; who told you that and why; real simple question..
I'm not here, to get in a pissing match with anyone..... I really don't care what heads you use, how you measure them, what problems you have, FACT; YOU OR YOUR ENGINE BUILDER IS THE FINAL SAY ON EVERY PART IN YOUR BUILD, RIGHT OR WRONG!!!!
If you didn't phrase that statement towards me : I apologise..... If you did; GIVE ME WHAT AND WHY ....

I have two high-end builds going now with Brodix heads, but up till now I've never used a set. One is a 515ci EFI twin turbo BB Chev and the other is a 540ci Vortec supercharged BB Chev, MFI alky motor. The TT will be in the 1500-2K hp range and the Vortec motor will be in the 2500hp range, neither are marine engines. I've worked on plenty of sets of Brodix heads for customers. The heads on the 515 TT are 18* big Dukes and the heads on the 540 are a set of the BB3 CNC that I've put bigger valves in, 50* valve job and hand ported.

Not directed at you at all Mark, when I had issues and talked guides some Oso members, afr, and bob told me that it was not being done right and the Cnc machine that did them were much more accurate and could not possibly be wrong... Kind of a sore spot to me that when clearly my guides were tight, others have seen similar readings but I am the idiot according to some here at Oso...oh well my engines are good now

Looks like the customer support from your vendor was lacking. You would hope your vendor would help you (first) get to an actual root cause then look at who is responsible.

That's a whole different story that was explain throughout my engine thread

The Sunnen gauge is pretty much the standard of the industry. I know some machinists who use a small bore gauge and there are several really accurate ones available, but the problem is that, while they can give you a very accurate diametric measurement in one place, they tell you nothing about round or straight. The Sunnen has a small "shoe" on it that, I feel, will tell you more about the guide than any one point or ball type bore gauge.The truest test is a pin gauge but not everyone can afford to have a complete selection of high quality long pin gauges (preferably carbide) to the tenths, nor can just anyone learn to have the feel to effectively use them. In the end we just find the method that works best for each of us who do this stuff, and the results will tell us if it's right or wrong. I can say that by my measurements (Sunnen P310), I've never had a guide related issue. Getting the guides straight and true is as important as the clearance. If they're banana shaped, or hour glass shaped (or the opposite) then your clearances aren't what you think they are.

That would be utter nonsense.

I also checked them myself with a pin gauge and came up with same readings, my buddy owns a machine shop and let me have his set to check for myself, but I am wrong having 2 devices saying the same thing....