Out of the box heads?
 

What is your guys take on these videos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3jn2ER455Y

part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsOmhHj-zqA

Oops!

Interesting, all the more reason to buy bare, Im sure there is a big misconception of assembled heads being ready to go, me included, the smaller the bore the less run out, larger bore more run out, maybe the seats are being cut to fast and the tooling has some deflection in it, who knows, thanks for posting,

Your average guy might save for a couple years to get a nice set of after market heads, then tell him he needs to spend another grand to make them right,

Interesting, I have several sets that I "just" bolted on. Wonder how they'd measure up? One set is in 242ls' 23 warlock and has run over 40 hours above 5000 rpm if I had to guess.

Mine were not even close to bolt on ready, wish I would not have been "sold" on them and bought bare like I wanted.

I'm considering buying 2 sets of after market heads and have been reading and watching videos like this. It's pretty pathetic that 3k $ set of heads from a reputable company sends that crap out the door. It's discouraging.

Also, in my opinion, buying a bare casting isn't a solution if it still needs the same machine work as a 1988 088 head with 750 hours on it.

The main difference is, no matter what you do to a 1988 088 head, they still don't flow chit lol.

I think its generally, simply good practice, to get bare heads, and have them gone thru by a qualified machine shop. Things like cleaning up a valve job, checking/honing guides, little touchups, really isn't alot of money in the grand scheme of things. Now, sticking a valve, breaking a head off a valve, can get real expensive in a hurry.

I don't think these issues are brand specific at all. I've talked to head guys who do this stuff for a living, and while some heads are better than others, none are "perfect" out of the box. They may be aftermarket, but they are still mass produced products.

Oh I hear you on out performing the 088s. I have been leaning toward 308 dart irons. .040 over 454s would like to stay with rectangle ports. Id like to be in the 550-575 horse range at 5600rpm ish. Whatever I go with it will probably be bare.

Where do I begin on this.... I guess it's winter now huh??

I learned heads are NOT custom made to the person selling them to you and to buy heads bare and have them built, we all know the issues I had and some can try to say it was my fault but facts are facts.... tight guides, metal transfer on valves, and wrong springs, again also not a brand specific thing, many brands have these issues....

took me some coin to make my bolt on heads marine ready........ wish I bought bare and built them...

Mild, you have a desk top dyno program, would you be willing to punch a couple different combos in? It is winter now haha and I am quite serious about head upgrades. If you were willing I can start a new thread as I'm sure others would be interested.

I do, and I also have a dump truck! PM me your email and we can talk about your setup.

40 man hours just on the combustion chamber design..I love my head guy. No mass produced product can deliver quality and attention to detail like that.
http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s8/...28985154-3.jpg

[QUOTE=ICDEDPPL;4364420]40 man hours just on the combustion chamber design..I love my head guy. No mass produced product can deliver quality and attention to detail like that.
[IMG]http://33outlaw.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v85/p428985154

I agree 100% Dan! Until someone gets to experience this type of work first hand and the benefits it yields, they would never use out of the box again. I make sure that I take care of my cyl head guy and his employees when he completes the maintenance on my heads!

^^^ agreed 100%


Anyone near Chicago Mike @ High Flow heads is one hell of a guy, honest as the day is long and 30+ years of experience. I`ve used him for more than 15 years and been never disappointed.


https://www.facebook.com/Hi-Flow-Hea...6818/timeline/

u gotta love the sharpie as his blueprinting dye
and do agree after 40 yrs of being around motor builds
very few hard parts are used out of box for a good build

I’ve really been getting into (kind of forced to) heads this summer and fall (was working on a set today). Well, big block Chevy heads since that’s what I have on 4 motors. I now have spring pocket drill bits and auger, valve seal bits, measuring tools, straight edges, lapping tools, assorted shims, homemade head stands, homemade triple spring compressor and an assortment of porting and polishing tools from my Dremmel to air die grinders and a number of metal files.
I use to just bolt on like a lot of folks and I can see why because I have been collecting tools for years and don’t have anything even close to what the guy does in the videos. And it seems like I’m light years from the bolt on and pray days but along with not having all the right tools, I still don’t know crap. Lucky enough I bought a couple sets that were both ported and polished by Crane and Mullen & Co so I got great examples on what porting and polishing is supposed to look like. Spent a lot of time on-line learning about lapping valves and how it should look when done. How to measure keeper heights, the compressed heights, the seal height and how to cut new if needed. About standard, over size and undersize keepers and standard, over size and undersize locks, 7 degrees, 11 degrees, steel, stainless steel, titanium …. Ugghhhh!!!!
It gets a little overwhelming and I can see why most would rather just leave it up to their machinist. But I wonder how many do what this guy does? I have a hard time just finding someone that will put a valve guide in. I guess that’s why people ship him stuff and brand new stuff at that. Shame it has to be that way.

The video says it's a Tom Rockwell race car production, but it looks like the presentation is by Mark Jones/ Vortec Pro. So does anyone know who is actually in the video and what sort of reputation or motivation he has? A quick glance at the search results for those names showed me a basic website for Rockwell and link to a yellow bullet thread where Mark/ Vortec is being called out as a scammer in a very long winded post that I didn't care to read. He has a video about cracked/ damaged valves in a head manufactured in 2006 in a video dated 2013. Says it's only been down the track 70 times. Who knows? I've got no reason to disbelieve him, but I've got no reason to believe him either.

Duplicate

Valako is the man around MI

Yeah Jim is a great guy that I wouldn't hesitate to do business with. We haven't yet but we have had some great convo. There's some other good options also. Most importantly to at least have someone check them out. Todays heads are amazing out of the box, but still require custimization to match our high performance custom engines!

My new "Race Ready" blocks that I was told were ready to assemble required LOTS of work also.

Nothing is "ready to run" out of the box!

Anyone who ASSumes that an aftermarket item is ready to go without measuring and checking all aspects of sad part is rolling the dice.

So far this year, off the top of my head and on this site, we have seen;

A bogus pair of heads from AFR

A quick fuel carb that was not even close to what it was supposed to be.

Tims block with tight lifter bores

In my world this year:

A custom ground cam from crower for my 440 that was ground incorrectly (yeah, you gotta degree them)

A crower EDM solid flat lifter with no oil hole in the band

A piston ring from CP that was "eggl shaped

A fel pro head gasket for a 440 chrysler with no oil feed hole in it (RB chrysler a oil the top end through a passage
In the deck)


Our local machine shop has a saying......"if it comes in a box, it's probably wrong"


None of this is really new. It's common and is exactly why throwing stuff together and trusting that things are what they are supposed to be is a recipe for failure.

its crap for few reasons,just to let you know,that carbide guide insert can be bent,set the head up w/ a slight tilt and it will cut 1 side(both seats he did) like he did.thats why you need a floating head machine like a serdi to do valves right.aslo your relying on him pushing a tapered guide insert in straight,not gonna happen whe it basiclly grabs at 1 point in the guide.too many variables in the way he tests and cuts seats.
as I said,garbage.
and in the second video,like how he just throws the blts and ratchet off the valve guides,just an idiot at that point..

[QUOTE=sutphen 30;4364
and in the second video,like how he just throws the blts and ratchet off the valve guides,just an idiot at that point..[/QUOTE]


I was done when I saw that.

The Sunnen VGS (machine in that video) is the standard of equipment in almost every single one of the highest level engine shops in the country, only second to the Newen CNC. NONE of them use a Serdi, and that guy you posted about sure couldn't be any worse than this hack:

http://www.performanceboats.com/gall...dium/bill2.jpg

http://www.performanceboats.com/gall...dium/bill3.jpg

http://www.performanceboats.com/gall...dium/bill1.jpg

The equipment being used has nothing to do with anything. You could give me the best machine shop tools in the world and I would mess up, because I don't know how to do it.

Give a craftsman ancient tools and he will build a venus de milo.

you tried this same garbage on OSO before and got banned for it. What are you trying to prove this time? your conman boss running out of work?

As I said I have no idea how to use these machines. But I do know that if that is video by vortec pro, that you should move on and ignore what he says. This is a guy who has claimed for years that he can port oval heads in 2 hrs and make them outflow AFR. That in and of it self is a joke, and discredits anything else he may say or do.

Not according to stuphen 30. You need to argue with him about that, not me. I was quoting him, not you. I agree with you.

There's a guy here at work that used to work at a former engine shop and said the only heads out of the box they got that were even close were Darts.....said pretty much every set needs work and your better off buying bare unless you are building a street queen for looks :D

I guess what I dont understand is when I have dye kemmed seats and checked the margin/contact pattern IF the seat had .009 runout why would pattern come out pretty good, this was with .0010-.0012 guide clearance so I would NOT be convinced that slop in the guide would allow valve to touch all the way around either, IDK?

not what I read. Most of it seems to be talking about the operator. it also reads to me him saying that the tools that are made to do the job (floating head) work better than tools that aren't. As stated, I can't even turn a Serdi or any other machine shop tool on, so I can't comment on that.

However Just because one shop has brand new "state of the art" stuff, and one has older, equipment doesn't say that the new one is going to do a better job or even the correct job. without the craftsman I referenced above. I've seen lots of work done on 30 year old machines that is way better than stuff done on brand new machines.

Would be great if we could just enjoy multiple members opinions and then make our own decisions.

We should agree to disagree and welcome all info posted.

Of course everyone is welcome to share other opinions. It just helps to know the back story on them, so that people are not misled.

Exactly! Your finally catching on.

Thanks for letting us know about horsepower1's back story so we can make our own decision to utilize the knowledge he shares or not.

And your welcome for that other thread uncovering the truth of another backyard shed back story. :lolhit:

The local machine shop we use for machining and dynoing, has a Newen cnc for head work.

http://borowskirace.com/Engine_Machine_Shop.html

Hendricks motorsports uses serdi machines.and these boats use my heads,47 has 1200hp motors and the formula that has hit 110 in a rolling mile has 950hp.so storing carbide bits in the holding trays serdi provides sure doesn't hurt them.cutters sure do seem to make power.
and further more,those are just run of the mill oem seat cutters,not a high performance multy angle cutter shown,,but a big time fluff and buffer like you steelchump should have known that,,unless your trying to decieve the unsuspecting oso member.
enjoy my videos,my head work and my efi tuning.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=NmhE9uvbMX4

I don't really have any catching on to do. These players have been around far to long and screwed far to many people, and fed out too much BS.

The backstory on the person who made those video's is just as important if not more so than the story on steelcomp and his conman boss cstraub.

the formula,,you may want to turn up the volume.:D

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OhwGR64_Ghw

and just to get back at my daughter.:D

and just so you don't keep spreading the no boat rumor.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xwx9OuCpayk

came close to buying a serdi single point from Hendricks Motorsports.it was $75k but I'm gonna build an 80x120' building instead,,just to store my toys and my friends stuff.