Offshoreonly.com

Offshoreonly.com (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/)
-   General Q & A (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q-20/)
-   -   Rods (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-q/332881-rods.html)

horsepower1 12-17-2015 09:40 AM

Cycling the bolts is only important if you're using the torque method. If you're stretching the bolts then it's still a good idea to cycle them a few times, but this is usually done by the time you've done bearing clearances. Friction is a big factor when torquing a bolt, but not so much when stretching.

MILD THUNDER 12-17-2015 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by horsepower1 (Post 4386061)
Cycling the bolts is only important if you're using the torque method. If you're stretching the bolts then it's still a good idea to cycle them a few tines, but this is usually done by the time you've done bearing clearances. Friction is a big factor when torquing a bolt, but not so much when stretching.

Have you ever seen new rods change shape after a few torquing cycles ?

horsepower1 12-17-2015 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by MILD THUNDER (Post 4386066)
Have you ever seen new rods change shape after a few torquing cycles ?

Not really, but it can hapapen. The most critical relationship between the bolt and the rod is the spot face where the bolt contacts the cap. This is one of the major differences between a "cheap" rod and a good quality rod. If that spot face isn't flat, smooth and perpendicular to the c/l of the bolt then cycling the bolts will make more of a difference as those two surfaces mate. Of course, out of square being the worst condition and this can cause all sorts of problems depending on how bad it is. You can chase your tail all day on a cheap rod trying to get a big end round and true but if the bolt spot faces aren't right, it's a no-win situation. I've re-spot faced plenty of import rods.

sutphen 30 12-17-2015 11:28 AM

I guess most of the diy guys are just getting lucky because there sure isn't that much talk about tips failures from bolts.hydrolocking and reversion,yes,but cycling rods bolts.no way
And I've seen and done a ton of Builds that don't do that.everything from cheap stockers,eagle's to Oliver and full out drag race aluminum rods(and these guys go to 9600rpm).
The lube on the threads and back side are more critical as well as stretch if that's the process you are going to use.

Budman II 12-17-2015 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by horsepower1 (Post 4386061)
Cycling the bolts is only important if you're using the torque method. If you're stretching the bolts then it's still a good idea to cycle them a few times, but this is usually done by the time you've done bearing clearances. Friction is a big factor when torquing a bolt, but not so much when stretching.

It was probably overkill for my build (mild 580 HP 489), but I used a rod bolt stretch gauge when I assembled the bottom end on my engine. What you are saying about friction really becomes apparent when you use the stretch gauge. I made several passes on the rods because I was under the impression that you still had to cycle the bolts even with the gauge. I did a couple of passes with a torque wrench, and I had to apply considerably more torque to the bolt to get the proper stretch on the bolt with the first pass or two than I did after they had been run through several times. In fact, I had to go about 20 ft/lbs over the recommended torque for the first couple of passes to get the correct stretch. I was also watching to make sure that the bolt returned to spec after loosening it as well, because the extra torque was making me nervous that I might overstretch the bolt.

Interceptor 12-17-2015 04:59 PM

I know I'm being a dick but.....................Just to be a technically correct those fastners you're all talking about are called screws not bolts. A screw goes into a threaded hole in the mating part, a bolt is secured with a nut.
and
I'd still be equally concerned with bad threads in the rod causing a issue vs the screw.

BenPerfected 12-17-2015 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by Interceptor (Post 4386177)
I know I'm being a dick but.....................Just to be a technically correct those fastners you're all talking about are called screws not bolts. A screw goes into a threaded hole in the mating part, a bolt is secured with a nut.
and
I'd still be equally concerned with bad threads in the rod causing a issue vs the screw.

This should make it clear�� https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scre...bolt_and_screw

ICDEDPPL 12-17-2015 06:29 PM

I told my wife I was gonna bolt the $hit out of her tonight with my Richard

TAStevens 12-17-2015 06:45 PM

Amazing to me how many will "save" a couple hundred $ on a $10'ooo build! WTF! I doit RIGHT and ONCE!

MILD THUNDER 12-17-2015 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by horsepower1 (Post 4386061)
Cycling the bolts is only important if you're using the torque method. If you're stretching the bolts then it's still a good idea to cycle them a few times, but this is usually done by the time you've done bearing clearances. Friction is a big factor when torquing a bolt, but not so much when stretching.

Seems like your advice, is on par with what ARP advises as well.

Three basic elements that contribute to the friction factor:

Most importantly - The fastener assembly lubricant
The condition of the receiving threads
The surface finish of the fastener

Because of these variables, a phenomenon known as "preload scatter" or preload error occurs. This is basically the difference between the amount of preload achieved on the first installation of the fastener and the amount of preload achieved on subsequent torque/loosen/re-torque cycles. It's not uncommon to see "preload scatter" in the range of 4,000-8,000 pounds between the first and tenth pull on a new fastener depending on the lubricant used.
The Lubricant is the Key

The main factor in determining friction in a threaded fastener is the lubricant used, and therefore influences the torque required for a particular installation. One of the most overlooked aspects of choosing a fastener assembly lubricant is…the lubricant's ability to "control" the normal function of friction inherent in all high performance engine fasteners. As discussed earlier in this section, friction is at its highest point when a new fastener is first tightened. This "friction" inhibits the fasteners ability to achieve the required preload on the first several cycles. In fact, ARP's in-house Research and Development department has proven that new fasteners using motor oil and other commonly used lubricants such as Moly and EPL typically require 5-7 cycles before final torquing to level out the initial friction and achieve the required preload. Slicker lubricants may reduce the required torque by as much as 20-30% to achieve the desired preload, but compromise in areas of major importance such as preload repeatability, and may yield the fastener prematurely. Typically, the slicker the lubricant, the greater the "preload scatter" or preload error there will be during installation.


http://arp-bolts.com/p/technical.php


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:57 PM.


Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.