Just an FYI....

I just sent my risers back to Eddie Marine to be modified..

They quoted me $350 to change the water outlet to their "water dam" style and extend the inner pipe 3" past the outlet...


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/a...201_201813.jpg

There are certain scenerios were a tighter LSA, can make great power on a blown pump gas deal, but this engine build certainly isn't one of them, with a small 177 blower. He cannot afford to throw any boost away with that little blower.

yes it is but my point was that your builder doesnt even remember your build and then just says that it will add 110 hp. engines are complex and if you just go by what someone says every one would have 800 hp daily drivers. so far your builder doesnt seem to have much interest in what he does or what his customers think.

That's cool that they can do that and at a reasonable price. That said, with my original $146 cam it is unnecessary.

You should change the cam, one way or another !

If I have to buy the cam myself and throw it in, I will. Do I have to degree the 134561 cam or can I just bolt it in straight up and go?

You need to degree every cam that goes in any engine. Period!

I just did a cam swap on an engine this week and the cam was 4 degrees retarded as installed. Like vintage said, always degree a cam, way too many possible error points not to verify it is correct..

Sounds great and a good def pic, but too bright for me to see inside. LOL. Can you try another pic ? That would be great as this option may help ton's of people.

I guess 4* retarded would have that exhaust valve closing later, increasing the reversion risk.

My buddy has been running that cam in a pair of N/A 454's for many many years. Competition marine center rebuild his original 370 merc's, and installed those cams. Up until 2 years ago, it had stock center rise cast iron merc manifolds, and never had any reversion issues. Now it has headers and dry tailpipes. i wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it, which I did.

Wayne272 is running those cams, in his 31 Bullet, with 177 superchargers, and GIL manifolds with wet tails if memory serves me right. No reversion issues.

Not true, Degree your cam and make sure does not have more than 2* advance use ICL method, install at 112 ICL. This will promote better breathing & useable top end power.

MT - what ignition modules on the above 2 motors ?

The NA one has standard 24 deg merc modules. I believe the supercharged ones do as well, but im not 100 percent. I know he was talking about getting the V6 modules, which allow alot more initial as we know.

I just want to make sure that it's still stated that I am happy overall with my build from Steve. Everything looks top notch and I am confident everything is done well. I just am not a big fan of the cam swap. I would have him build my next motor. I am going to call him in the morning.

If he has a dyno, why not dyno it ? See if his numbers add up.

Textbook says that cam isnt ideal. Thats textbook. Who knows, it may work better than the other cams. Never know until you try it.

Tell him to shove his cam up his a55.

Or that lol

I called comp cams, they informed me that that cam will revert with wet exhaust. They also said it was not great for a supercharger.
I also called Emi Marine. They said that the comp cam was a bit over what they call safe and would likely revert. I then called the builder. I am waiting on a return call.

This should be interesting.

saw this one coming.this whole thing sucks.

F79 said....I guess 4* retarded would have that exhaust valve closing later, increasing the reversion risk....


That's right F79. In my .02, installing them at the designed ICL is usually best. If the evc ground into the cam is one that will revert its better to just get a cam that is ground for marine use and that will not revert as opposed to adjusting the icl. Hopefully your guy didnt do that. None the less, I'd be livid about him not using the cam I specified. Bad biz right there from what you describe.

Yup, time for the builder to man up and change it. That cam sucks (in the literal aspect) for a blower motor. 79F, you will have to be assertive here (not an *******) but the builder is not going to like it.

EVC isnt the end all be all of determining reversion but it has a significant impact. Curious, I looked up the EVC of the cam you speced vs the one installed. The one installed has an evc angle of 30* atdc at .005 lift and the one you speced 39* at .006 lift. The one you speced in theory should revert more than the one installed, strictly based on evc. I'd still be pissed but would let it ride and watch for signs of reversion. The builder most likely isnt going to get on board with swapping it out anyway and it'll just turn into a pissing match. I'd never go to his shop again though and I'd let him know that and the reason why.

Try to find some common ground before you install this in your boat like you get the engine builder to agree that if the engine grenades due to reversion that he foots the bill or something along those lines. You are in a tough spot right now because there is a lot of good advice being given here and your engine builder is probably pretty good at what he does too. The fact is you are not getting a warm fuzzy feeling and the end results could cost you a lot of $$$. Good Luck.

The lobe separation seems wrong for a blower motor too. Comp suggested a few cams that will work. None of them were on a 110lsa. The builder is an hour away. For a $146 cam, it might be cheaper to buy it and swap it myself.

Why let him off the hook? You specified what you wanted now have him follow thru. I highly doubt he will cover this engine if it goes boom reversion related or not.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out

Steve called me back. He said buy whatever cam I want. Bring it in. He will refund me the cam that is already in it. He will swap it no problem. Very happy right now!

Chances are he got a really good deal on a bunch of these cams. Good to hear he's going to work with you on this. That's what we like to hear.

Didn't he charge you extra for the cam already? Thought the original quote was $2300 and you wound up around $3200?

Was he OK with the whole thing? How did you get him to change his mind?

LOL - Exactly who I would want installing a cam in my engine. A disgruntled engine builder with 11 pages of angry posters on OSO.

Hopefully the builder has a dyno so you can see a proven good running engine before you leave with it.

That is good to hear 79F. Hopefully he actually changes it haha...

i was thinking the same thing,i would bet it gets put in without degree checking!the builder clearly should have never installed the wrong cam to begin with so if he is a reasonable person he will do the right thing and correct his mistake,and move on.jmo.i will also add,the op never said anything that was not true and did not get carried away with chit talking the builder but rather he just came seeking opinions.at the end of the day he got the builder to agree to correct the mistake and that is really what this thread was about.

my guess is the op would be charged for a dyno session,the builder won,t do it for free.

That's because you're one of the good guys ^^^^^ Mike

thanks for the kind words.

I hope he does it right. I was planning on double checking it with a degree wheel when I get it back.

Dyno time would be money well spent.

I really did not want to slander the builder. I started this thread just to see if I could actually run the cam he installed. After multiple "NO" answers with both Comp Cams and Eddie Marine also saying no. I had to ask him to swap it.

As far as the extras go, I still feel the price was fair for what I got. I have heard what other people pay for motors and mine was not that bad.

For $3200 I got the following:

Machine work on the block- Align hone mains, bore/hone with torque plate, cam bearings/soft plugs, decked.
Machine work on rods- resized big ends with new ARP bolts.
Machine work on crank- crankshaft ground
Rotating assembly balanced
forged 2399 pistons
cam
cam bearings
main bearings
rings
rear main seal
timing cover gasket
oil pan gasket
timing set with torrington bearing
timing cover
balancer and bolt
timing cover bolts
oil pan studs
oil pump stud
timing tab
cam button
lifters
I supplied the new oil pump.

Costs are the shortblock at 3200, the heads running me $1496, the blower was $1676, and $500 in gaskets, oil system stuff. I have a total of $6872 in my motor. I also sold off my old intake for $600 and old pistons for $200. Leaving a $6072 net cost.

The only thing I would have tried to have done different is heads. At $1496 to get and go through a set of iron heads, I should have just got AFRs. However I am out of money for this seasons boat upgrades.