No doubt 100% bill and his dad make some serious good power, wish I talked to him before bob, hindsight....

I'd like to see the flow data. I'm sure those heads flow very well with some work. I certainly don't think AFR heads are bad, but I do think they are often hyped up, as if they are the only heads that can make power.

There's a lot to be gained power wise in the intake manifolds also. I did all the cam& head work but felt there was more in it. I sent my intake with the Head & cam# to Wilson manifolds it made every work together

I'd pull the heads and have Billy's dad do his thing.
If there is evidence of valvetrain instability or excessive wear that you think is from the cam, THEN look into changing the cam.
Changing the cam just because others have reported issues, without evidence of problems of your own after 60 plus hours there is no real reason to change the cams. Even if you could gain 40HP, you won't net any significant gain once in the water.

It's all if I have the funds at the time, I have other places to spend money also, 1000 to change cams is one thing, 6000 to redo heads up is different...

You can get new billet HYD rollers, for less than 1000 dollars. I wanna say the last price I got for a lunati billet with iron gear, was under 400 each.

Even better... A 30 hp gain on each side would at least get me a tad over my old engines and then I'm happier and redo the rest later or just put pro chargers on

Here are the numbers for the BB2plus heads:
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/b...psysv0xrjc.jpg

Bill called me, might be pulling heads and intakes going to dad Klein ... Deciding if gains to be had will be worth money spent, I question carb and intake not being dominator a he's convinced I don't need doms to see gains... Said my carb flows plenty but for proper can I need exact flow numbers not advertised.

Good move Tim!
Maximize what you already have.

Just thought I'd throw it out there as much of us here are racking our brains trying to figure this out as you are. My advice on pull or wait til refresh time is wait. If it were a 5 mph gain then I'd think twice. Well actually I'd be pulling but another couple mph just enjoy the reliability and and time boating. Just more cost and time effective it would seem. I'd like to see some post with 325 partially CNCd heads on 540 combos. We seem to see many results with the 305 and 315 CNCd heads and combos making good power but just not much with the 325's and there has to be plenty of them out there. I think I asked about if you port matched or not but regardless the engines would still pull 6k. What's getting me is the lack of power between 5,500 and 6k. There is no reason those cams should not pull to 6k. I double checked mine today that were from Gellners 540 packages and they are 244/248-647/641. They made peak hp at 6,200 however on my builds I advanced them 4 deg to bring them in at 5,800. If you were to do anything like I mentioned before I'd install 1.8's on the intakes on one engine just to see if there is any gains or not. I will ship you a brand new set to try for nothing. Your only looking at a few hours of time. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Up to you! That would give you 720 gross lift and more duration as well.

I read a post in regards to possible valvetrain instability and I don't believe that's an issue or you would have noticed your BSFC numbers out of whack when you dyno'd. I've had that happen before and it shows up big time.

At this point I'm not convinced it's the cam unless somehow they simply weren't ground to specs on card which is highly unlikely and would have been caught during installation and degreeing. I'm certain there is more power to be had with your heads however again not the real issue. We discussed the intake and carb combo and all pretty much agree as you did they should be inspected and flowed along with your heads. Has anybody here used the intake your using? Just curious.

Up to you but if you want I'd be happy to send the rockers to try.

We will see, trying to not re invent the wheel financially here, thought I did that once lol

What heads were on those packages? How much did they make at 6200 and then at 5800 after advancing them? How much advance did the cams have ground into them ?

Tim I hope you get to your hp goals, but a 10.000 pound boat and hopefully 700hp :) will =:angry-smiley-055:unhappy TRS drives

Heres a 548ci build by another oso member. Dart 310 heads. Victor JR, 850 carb.

Comp 235/243 114 LSA 623 lift. Fairly close to the 741 and 525 EFI cam.

Safe to say, there'd be no point propping for anything over 5200? peak torque around 4100rpm. Why is it surprising that tims cams, with 6* more intake, and 3* more exhaust duration, is pulling maybe 300RPM higher?

I have a barn full of drives, how you throttle helps a ton... At 630 hp and lots of big water beatings I made almost 2 seasons the one I broke last year 3 times in 10 hours was the case messed up, since last July and all this season all good and I beat it weekly... But yes at limits, after engines run where I want them the boat gets 3's or 4's conversion that's next step... Then boost

Those cam sheets FF has of his cams are from Cam Doctor. Cam Motion and a few others, do this after cam is ground and send sheet with cam.

What was the CR on this engine? A 741 cam should make power past 5200, now if that engine is around 9:1 cr then that makes sense that it's done making power at that RPM.

Ok, still no cam specs from the couple that had "success" also how they were dynode? was it with no accessories and dyno headers? or was it with Alt, Sea pump, and the boats exhaust like stainless marine or GIL..?? makes a difference in numbers...

Also how much time is on the successful engines in the boat being used? I logged 65 or 67 hours, cant remember... clearly I can build engines and proved a few wrong there, thye are fine, besides making good power and with them being 3hp apart and .3 ftlbs apart I don't see my building being the issue...

I would love to see that info I asked for, also seems only 2 guys have similar builds? why did they make power and I did not?

my engines had 10.3-1 comp,,wilson single plane and a dom(may have been a 1250) on it.and the biggy,,afr 335 cnc'd heads.only the alt was running,cross overs and stelling long tubes.as for hours,,alot and still going.

Technically, yes, and tims engine kept making power to 5800 or 5900 . It held on so to speak. But when you only gain like 5hp from 5300 to 5900, over a 500rpm spread in the upper rpm band, something is holding the engine back. I doubt its his 325 AFR's, 1050 carb, or single plane intake holding it back. Those heads are capable of wayyyy more than 628hp. Im sure there could be more in the combo with fine tuning things, but not 70hp, without major changes.

I think the fact tim dynoed in full trim, with wet stainless marine manifolds, was one of the reasons his power is down compared to a few others with similar combos. I'd bet that with a cam that has a bigger split, would have helped , especially when the exhaust system isn't ideal for big power numbers.

Single pattern camshafts, can make some good torque numbers, and a good torquey street engine, but suffer in the upper rpm. Bigger splits in the duration, can give up some low end to a single pattern, but usually pull better in the upper rpm range.

Without trying a different cam, its pretty much all speculation.

x 2.

Found this on speedtalk on a 540 thread

Just curious. Do your 4150's still have the choke towers on them?

Race carb no choke tower

Tim my cam is bigger than yours. I have more head than you, more compression than you, more intake than you, more throttle body flow than you. You also are saddled with low hatch clearance and smaller carbs, that causes restrictions. What more of a full combo can I post? AFR 335 full cnc heads, 10.2 CR, Edelbrock 454-R dominator flange intake, 1" open spacer with 2100 cfm throttle body, Holley HP distributorless EFI with LS3 CnP ignition. I have no doubt on a dyno I could make the projected numbers on dyno headers and conditions. I run Eddie Marine manifolds with the standard long risers. I also run full accessories. I have no doubt IN BOAT the engine will crack 700 hp mark based on achieved speeds.

Cam Specs: 7/4 2/3 firing order swap, Hyd. roller
Lobe Sep: 113.1
valve overlap:19.6
INT
open 12.6 btdc
c/l 109.1 atdc
close 50.9 abdc
duration 243.5
lobe lift .40024 in
valve lift .6804 in
lobe area 32.61

EXH
open 63.2 bbdc
c/l 117.1 btdc
valve close 7 atdc
duration 250.2
lobe lift .38996 in
valve lift .66293 in
lobe area 32.69

Was the engine supposed to make the number in full dress?
How much more do you think it would have done with dyno headers and no accessories?

I tried something this summer that made a bigger difference than I would have thought. I've been running a JOMAR tapered Phenolic 1" spacer, this summer I added a 1" open spacer under that and I could feel the difference over 5k. I'm running a 524 with 10.1:1 compression, AFR 315 with CNC Bowl and chamber, Brodix HV2000 intake, Lightning headers, The cam is a custom Comp hydraulic with .623/.612 and 242/252 @ .050. You could have some weird flow issue going on that's killing your power. I matched the runners in the head and intake to maintain a consistent taper throughout the runner. Some intakes make the port opening small so you can match to your gasket/heads. The sudden change in runner dimensions can cause pulse issues that can dramatically effect power. I never dynoed my motor but I run 90 in a velocity 280 with 4 adults and a full load and almost 6000rpm.

Like I said I doubted it, never said for sure can't happen, I didn't see any specs until now or missed them...

Not entirely sure how to target that, but I GAURANTEE alternator and sea pump and Olmsted dry exhaust is not 70 HP

I was told maybe 30 hp difference

I'll bet anyone on here lunch and a drink should we meet up that the biggest power improvement this combo will see by far will come from carb/ intake changes. But he doesn't have the room on the boat so...

With carbs or EFI, plenum size and shape can have a large effect. Adding a carb spacer does not only smooth the airflow, it provides a larger volume plenum as well. That is why adding different thicknesses or combining tapered with open spacers can have a large effect.

Let alone if you have an exhaust with harmonics that are not agreeing with your engine, add in intake harmonics that are not ideal, and the losses could be greater than the sum of either issue if they were independently isolated.

Yes. One of the reasons I've asked twice so far what the height of the intake is and whether he's using a spacer. I'm assuming no spacer.

Ive seen where a cam change netted 40hp on a 555ci build bob specd a cam for. Engine picked up 40hp, with a cam that was laying around the shop. Matter of fact, it wasnt nearly ideal for that combo, it was a nitrous cam from howards.

700hp from a 540, with race car headers, 10:1 compression, really isnt setting the world on fire. That 555ci deal , made 760hp. Nothing fancy, afr 335 heads, victor jr. shelf howards cam, pump gas, still made gobs of torque, and the engines went in a 33 fountain with speedmasters.

Offshoreexcursions 572s made 762hp at 6000rpm with cmi headers . Not even big tubes. Afr 335 heads, 680 lift hyd roller, pro systems dominator, 9.8:1,

I can say this, the cams in both those engines , are a world away from what tim has. The heads slightly better, the intake manifolds close in design, slightly more carb than tims 1050s.

Not saying he wouldn't see a change from swapping cams. But I'm still betting the most noticeable improvement would come from the induction setup. Now if he's convinced the cam profile is such that it is physically harmful to the engine then it's irrelevant and he should pull it regardless.

This is something that I've seen over and over on here. How many things do you need to change / upgrade after the fact, to make the power you were promised with your custom cam? There have been a lot of dyno sessions where people have changed out everything from their spec'd/supplied springs, lifters, had their intakes sent off for porting, bigger carbs, cylinder head work, etc. When you order a custom cam specific for your combination, why do you need to do all this trial and error and R&D? Another builder on here tried two custom cams, different springs, different ignition, etc. Ultimately the lack of power was blamed on a restrictive intake. The same one it had when the first custom cam was ordered. An off the shelf grind with a bit more duration and less lift was used, and it made the promised power. It is much easier to carry rpm and power with additional duration, rather then trying to do it with lift and relying on the heads flow capability. Especially when you take the marine exhaust systems in to consideration.

^^^^ couldnt agree more.

I have the full cover on boat while over the weekend I was painting my house (only been waiting 2 years) so I can't measure, but correct no spacer.

I ask myself that all the time, but the question still goes further than that. This engine architecture has been around for a long time. Computer development is pretty advanced. Why does anyone ever ask 4100 or 4500? Spacer or no, if so which kind and how big? Anti reversion plates? A dozen different intake choices another dozen head choices. There HAS to be one combination of parts that works best. If I say I want a 700 hp 540 there only needs to be 1 combination of parts yet apparently from all these types of threads no one is sure what that exact combo is.

I been waiting since February for proof MY CAM will cause the issues, I seen pics, and see gains over custom cams... But not sure them builds compared to mine, is the shirt duration high lift an issue at 5500? Or at 6000? Or both..?? The issue engine examples I seen are 6000+ so maybe I am ok at 5500... Kip from cam motion says I'm ok, others say not, no matter what I will pulling intakes to see if I see wear or issues starting at 65 hours...