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Daytona25 01-24-2019 10:36 AM

Second wind, I understand that the motor is capable of 800ftlb at 3500rpm it won’t be making it with the throttle only open a 1/4?

SS496 01-24-2019 11:15 AM

Bravo.....the GM 3rd/4th gen F-body 10 bolt of the boat world....lol

Daytona25 01-24-2019 10:25 PM

Ok after reading for hours on oso forums I think I may try the crane 168771 cam what are your guys’ thoughts about it?? 509 dart pro 1 heads 8.2 compression, 871 blower shop blower with intercooler, dominator carbs plan to run 7-8lbs boost, also what kind of power due you think it may make??

SecondWind 01-25-2019 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4669545)
Second wind, I understand that the motor is capable of 800ftlb at 3500rpm it won’t be making it with the throttle only open a 1/4?

Good morning Daytona,
I'm not trying to hijack your thread. I think the motor combo you're putting together is badass. Nothing like a roots carbed bbc. The power, sound, look all exceptional. I'm just speaking from experience that you're most likely going to have drive problems and start factoring that into your budget. You start putting a 100 plus mph prop on that drive and raise the X-dimension to reduce drag and you can't get on plane w/ a 1/4 throttle. Again not being a Debbie Downer here just start thinking about upgraded drive options. This going fast business is expensive!

Daytona25 01-25-2019 07:52 AM

I understand that the drive may be an issue later, I am willing to address that as it becomes an issue, currently with the 2.5” below sponsons setup and 30p prop my boat rolls over 1 person or 6 people and a cooler with ease and around 1/4-1/3 throttle just takes longer with more weight. Very minimal blow out just as the nose drops down. Don’t have any intentions of goin higher with the drive, so unless a 32p prop is goin to cause it to blow out a hole bunch more than it does now I don’t see how planing out with more power will be any harder on it than it is now??

SecondWind 01-25-2019 08:07 AM

It sounds like your x-dimension is setup very conservative. If you can live w/ a 95mph boat you're good to go. If you want your boat in the 105-110 range you're going to have to raise that propshaft at least two inches. That's when planing get's tough. All trade offs. I couldn't live with a 95mph single engine cat and then I started mashing gears in the Bravo style drive.

Daytona25 01-25-2019 08:36 AM

The boat runs 90s now, so with 100+ additional horsepower won’t it break a 100mph without changing the x dimension??

SecondWind 01-25-2019 08:48 AM

Drag becomes exponentially problematic at higher speeds. You're going leave 10 plus mph on the table w/ your current x-dimension. That may be worth it to save money on the drive setup but it's difficult not to try and maximize top speed performance w/ the style of boat you have. I'm not an expert but I've learned alot over the last five years of ownership of a single engine cat.

Daytona25 01-25-2019 08:56 AM

Would a bmax upper combined with my bmax lower be enough drive to be worry free with x dimension and prop selection??

SecondWind 01-25-2019 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4669701)
Would a bmax upper combined with my bmax lower be enough drive to be worry free with x dimension and prop selection??

That would be the ticket!

Tinkerer 01-25-2019 08:48 PM

Secondwind. My prop shaft is 2 inches above the lowest point on the bottom of the hull and I don't begin to use more than 1/4 throttle to get on plane. I just rev it to 5000 RPM and it rolls onto plane.
I have my drive "Tinkered" to allow more negative trim than stock though.
I have a terrible slip # until I get up in speed. ( 80 MPH and up is 4%)

SecondWind 01-26-2019 06:58 AM

Tinkerer,
I remember when you were working on the additional negative trim to get on plane. Maybe some of it is hull design. The AO has a fair amount of bow rise to get on plane. With a 34 pitch B1 prop I have to get to 3200rpm before the boat rolls over and the prop is biting until she rolls over. With two people on board it's smooth. With six professional beer drinkers it's labored. Once she's on plane everything is perfect-acceleration, turning, etc.

Daytona25 01-31-2019 01:15 PM

Mike Tkach,

509 dart 325cc heads fully ported exhaust runners, lightly ported intake runners, valves unshrouded and polished combustion chambers, fresh rings and bearings, dish top pistons 8-8.2:1 static compression, blower shop 871 with chiller and Nickerson 980 carbs, Imco powerflo with dry to the tip exhaust. Should I go with crane 771 or 651 cam?? Plan to run 8lbs boost

14 apache 01-31-2019 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670586)
Mike Tkach,

509 dart 325cc heads fully ported exhaust runners, lightly ported intake runners, bales unshrouded and polished combustion chambers, fresh rings and bearings, dish top pistons 8-8.2:1 static compression, blower shop 871 with chiller and Nickerson 980 carbs, Imco powerflo with dry to the tip exhaust. Should I go with crane 771 or 651 cam?? Plan to run 8lbs boost

pm him.

GPM 01-31-2019 04:20 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670586)
Mike Tkach,

509 dart 325cc heads fully ported exhaust runners, lightly ported intake runners, valves unshrouded and polished combustion chambers, fresh rings and bearings, dish top pistons 8-8.2:1 static compression, blower shop 871 with chiller and Nickerson 980 carbs, Imco powerflo with dry to the tip exhaust. Should I go with crane 771 or 651 cam?? Plan to run 8lbs boost

Just curious, is there any chance of a cam that's been designed this Century making more HP.

Daytona25 01-31-2019 05:41 PM

I’m sure there is a more powerful cam available but at what cost?? If someone has a suggestion and can verify that it won’t come at a cost of valvetrain stability or me having to replace parts once a year I’m open to suggestions!! I’ve been down the custom cam fancy lifter road on my last motor, $800 lifters that didn’t make it thru a dyno session in the trash and replaced with another set of lifters....this was for a 511” motor in my Camaro. So this time around I’m more than happy with the more tried and true setup and only having to buy parts once!! But I am still open to suggestions from anyone of you guys with more experience than myself in the offshore community as I’m still learning the curve of boat motors rather than car motors!!

14 apache 01-31-2019 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670622)
I’m sure there is a more powerful cam available but at what cost?? If someone has a suggestion and can verify that it won’t come at a cost of valvetrain stability or me having to replace parts once a year I’m open to suggestions!! I’ve been down the custom cam fancy lifter road on my last motor, $800 lifters that didn’t make it thru a dyno session in the trash and replaced with another set of lifters....this was for a 511” motor in my Camaro. So this time around I’m more than happy with the more tried and true setup and only having to buy parts once!! But I am still open to suggestions from anyone of you guys with more experience than myself in the offshore community as I’m still learning the curve of boat motors rather than car motors!!

was it a hydraulic lifter that failed??

Daytona25 01-31-2019 05:56 PM

Yes a morel lifter to be exact, actually two separate lifters in a set failed. Non the less cost me quite a bit of money to fix the situation!

14 apache 01-31-2019 06:05 PM

I would take solid and an adjustment once in awhile. Reliability is better.

Daytona25 01-31-2019 06:17 PM

I’m not against solid and have considered it, just with my Imco exhaust it means pulling the exhaust loose from the head to get the valve covers off, but if that’s what is recommended for the best durability I’ll go that route. I have comp gold rockers currently so would the be sufficient with stud girdles or do I have to step up to shaft mounted rockers to get reliability?? Also at given times my boat may see 45min idle time in gear which is 6-800 rpm, is that gonna cause concern for solid roller lifter failures?? And I boat 50-75hrs a year so is a one time checkup on valvetrain in that amount of time sufficient with solid roller?? I already considered solid setup once, for the added power, and sound but was concerned about lifter reliability, considering idle time ect. My boat is used primarily for a pleasure boat idle time, cruise rpm 2700-4000 depending on situation. Don’t do any tubing skiing ect just mainly a hot rod family boat with the occasional high speed blast!

mggdoors 01-31-2019 06:33 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670629)
I’m not against solid and have considered it, just with my Imco exhaust it means pulling the exhaust loose from the head to get the valve covers off, but if that’s what is recommended for the best durability I’ll go that route. I have comp gold rockers currently so would the be sufficient with stud girdles or do I have to step up to shaft mounted rockers to get reliability?? Also at given times my boat may see 45min idle time in gear which is 6-800 rpm, is that gonna cause concern for solid roller lifter failures?? And I boat 50-75hrs a year so is a one time checkup on valvetrain in that amount of time sufficient with solid roller?? I already considered solid setup once, for the added power, and sound but was concerned about lifter reliability, considering idle time ect. My boat is used primarily for a pleasure boat idle time, cruise rpm 2700-4000 depending on situation. Don’t do any tubing skiing ect just mainly a hot rod family boat with the occasional high speed blast!

I had twin blown 489 in my Daytona 28 but switching to LS engines currently. I ran sold roller cams with morel lifters and gil exhaust. I suggest you do as I did and find some marine two piece calve covers which eliminates the removal of valve covers. With good components lash will rarely have to be adjusted but still need verifying.

14 apache 01-31-2019 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670629)
I’m not against solid and have considered it, just with my Imco exhaust it means pulling the exhaust loose from the head to get the valve covers off, but if that’s what is recommended for the best durability I’ll go that route. I have comp gold rockers currently so would the be sufficient with stud girdles or do I have to step up to shaft mounted rockers to get reliability?? Also at given times my boat may see 45min idle time in gear which is 6-800 rpm, is that gonna cause concern for solid roller lifter failures?? And I boat 50-75hrs a year so is a one time checkup on valvetrain in that amount of time sufficient with solid roller?? I already considered solid setup once, for the added power, and sound but was concerned about lifter reliability, considering idle time ect. My boat is used primarily for a pleasure boat idle time, cruise rpm 2700-4000 depending on situation. Don’t do any tubing skiing ect just mainly a hot rod family boat with the occasional high speed blast!

morel lifters are pressure fed not a problem with idle. A 1075 and a 900sc hold up pretty good.

Daytona25 01-31-2019 06:48 PM

Had a bad experience with morel hyd lifters, solids are better quality I guess?? Would my comp rockers with stud girdles be good enough to keep lash in check?? How many hrs are valvesprings gonna last with solid setup?? How many hrs will lifters last?? Also how many hrs between checking lash??

Rookie 01-31-2019 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670629)
I’m not against solid and have considered it, just with my Imco exhaust it means pulling the exhaust loose from the head to get the valve covers off

I replaced my valve cover studs with 1/4-20 stainless socket head cap screws. I run solids and can remove my valve covers without loosening my exhaust using looong ball end 3/16" Allen wrenches.For reference; Stainless Marine manifolds and CMI E-Top headers. I do have to take the V-clamps off the tails.

Daytona25 01-31-2019 08:27 PM

You guys suggest solid roller but nobody can give me hrs per maintenance and or parts replacements with solid roller setup???

Rookie 01-31-2019 08:55 PM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670639)
You guys suggest solid roller but nobody can give me hrs per maintenance and or parts replacements with solid roller setup???

I ran solid Ultradyne cams for 6 or 7 yrs ('06-'12 or '13) max 6500RPM Comp 943 springs 0.022" lash. I would check lash at the start of every summer or any abnormal tick, never a problem. I run Isky Red Zone lifters that have been rebuilt once. In '13 I installed Cam Motion HR cams and still run my solid Isky Red Zones. I run Comp 933 springs 0.007" lash 5500RPM. I had issues with my valve train on one head cylinder 1 and 3 intakes. I did change out 2 of my Scorpion rockers on those two cylinders with 2 other Scorpion rockers. (I didn't like the feel of them and the had a noise) Both were 1.8 ratio but 2 different models. I did not check the push rod to head clearance with the 2 new rockers. (I assumed they were the same) The push rods had the slightest contact with the head and I assume were deflecting a little. I clearanced the head and got thicker push rods to solve that issue. Now every time I check lash it's just checking it. No adjustments. Might not be exactly your situation and I'll get flamed in a minute or 2 for running solids on HR's lol but it's all good. Hours?? I probably have 250 hrs on a set of Isky rebuilds and 250 hrs on the 943's and 150+ on the 933's, 12yrs or so combined. I just rebuilt my bottom ends and switched blocks last spring, but reused all of my valve train components.

Daytona25 02-01-2019 05:41 AM

I’m pulling my motor to hone and ad new rings and bearings now just because I figured if I’m replacing everything else it only makes sense to have it all new at once, so I could assume if I went to solid roller setup with red zone lifters they would last 250hrs when most likely I’d need to refresh it all again anyway??

mggdoors 02-01-2019 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670664)
I’m pulling my motor to hone and ad new rings and bearings now just because I figured if I’m replacing everything else it only makes sense to have it all new at once, so I could assume if I went to solid roller setup with red zone lifters they would last 250hrs when most likely I’d need to refresh it all again anyway??

Yes. It can last that long with proper maintenance, the use of good oil, and good valvetrain stability. Make sure you use good valve springs and set them up correctlyfor the pounds required. Valve float will kill them faster than anything. I would also suggest a low lash solid roller cam as well vs standard.

Daytona25 02-01-2019 09:37 AM

I just read about the low lash stuff thought it might be a little easier on valvetrain!! Anyone have any recommendations for a solid roller off the shelf cam?? I was considering the crane 771 or 651 if I went hydraulic....so I guess something comparable to those??

mggdoors 02-01-2019 09:39 AM

Engine specs? Peak desired rpm? Exhaust?

Daytona25 02-01-2019 10:33 AM

509” bbc dart pro 1 aluminum heads 225 intake runner, slight intake porting (gasket matched, bowl work) unshrouded valves and polished combustion chambers, full exhaust runner porting. 8.2:1 static compression, blower shop billet 3 lobe non stripped 871, blower shop intercooler, Nickerson 980cfm 4150 carbs, msd ignition, imco powerflow manifolds with dry to tip tails. 25’ eliminator Daytona 8-850hp range target and 6200rpm desired max can be plus or minus a little.

Daytona25 02-01-2019 02:03 PM


Originally Posted by mike tkach (Post 4653977)
a 509 with a decent head&cam package and an 8.71 with a pair of 850 carbs will easily make 850 reliable hp.if starting fresh with no parts go with a 540,if you already have a 4 in stroke crank go 509.the power output is pretty close on both combinations.

Can you give me some more insight on what you would suggest Mike??? I have all the details for my build minus valvetrain!

ICDEDPPL 02-02-2019 12:04 AM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670639)
You guys suggest solid roller but nobody can give me hrs per maintenance and or parts replacements with solid roller setup???

I left my Crystal ball at home , sorry.
Not sure how solid is more reliable, because you wont break a lifter?
But it`s ok to pound the $hit out of the valvetrain with a solid set up? I like my hydraulics to cushion my valve train I also like shocks on my cars instead of a solid rod. find that everything stays together longer and the seats don`t fall out of the car from the vibrations.

Daytona25 02-02-2019 11:46 AM

Hydraulic has been my plan because my exhaust doesn’t allow checking valve lash easily, planned on a crane 771 or 651 cam but looking for more insight on which would suit me best?? Also what lifters are the best for an aggressive hyd roller setup meaning 6200rpm stability?? Have not ruled out a solid roller setup if that’s the only way to get stability and reliability above 6000 rpm??

F-2 Speedy 02-02-2019 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by Daytona25 (Post 4670863)
Hydraulic has been my plan because my exhaust doesn’t allow checking valve lash easily, planned on a crane 771 or 651 cam but looking for more insight on which would suit me best?? Also what lifters are the best for an aggressive hyd roller setup meaning 6200rpm stability?? Have not ruled out a solid roller setup if that’s the only way to get stability and reliability above 6000 rpm??

I think you answered you own question, and I agree with ICDP......

Daytona25 02-02-2019 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by F-2 Speedy (Post 4670864)
I think you answered you own question, and I agree with ICDP......

Which cam of the two I mentioned above would be the best fit for a 509” blower motor than I plan to prop to 6200 rpm give or take where power is after dyno?? Also what lifter is gonna give me 6500+rpm stability?? And if I decide to move up to an afr 335cc head over my dart 325 which of those two cams are the best suited or do they both go out the window being a bad match for the better exhaust flow with there larger split in duration??

F-2 Speedy 02-02-2019 01:01 PM

Im not a cam expert they have all been run off this site..:D... I run whats been proven to work, maybe you should pose those questions to the manufacturer, like Crane and Isky. I ran solid lifters on drag cars and its a PITA cant imagine doing it in a boat.....jmo......

Daytona25 02-02-2019 01:05 PM

I know the crane is proven to work, and be reliable so I’m heading that direction!! Just didn’t know which one of those too would fit my build best?? But I’ll call a few cam manufacturers and see what they say, just know they tend to be conservative most of the time.....figured maybe someone on here could steer me in the right direction

14 apache 02-02-2019 01:17 PM

I don't think hydraulic lifters work like a shock absorber it can actually go the other way bleeding off while the valve is closing there are a lot of trucked out there with solid rollers in them with no issues that go 200k on a valve adjustment. I have herd plenty of guys having problems with hydraulic lifters making noise and replacing them with solid lifters with tight lash. To each is there own on this. Think lunati has a voodo series that where made by Harold from ultra dyne.

GPM 02-02-2019 02:58 PM

You may want to talk to one of the senior techs at Comp Cams, Bullet, whatever brand you like, they could tell you what you should run to meet your goals. I'm guessing the price difference between a shelf cam and custom is a better core and you get closer to what you want. The solid roller lifter with high pressure pin oiling last a long time even with a lot of low RPM idling. Good springs, Pac or similar quality with the right pressures and my choice, stainless shaft rockers would get you where you want to be. Of coarse this is only my opinion, not gospel.


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