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Need help with an A/F issue on new build

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Old 03-05-2019 | 07:29 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by 14 apache
Do you have heat gun maybe to check headers?
Yes I agree for an easy test to check temp at each runner and see what those differences are.
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Old 03-05-2019 | 07:42 PM
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John if at some certain point - what I was talking about the injectors port(s) - so with that said swapping injectors will not matter. NO matter of injector installed possible will still have a bad seal no matter what injector / oring swap is done.. Out of round / not cut out properly the port itself. Just saying as a shot in the dark and throwing some darts at it for a guess.

I have had that one 3 times. But the boat engine had a miss at idle rpms and just off idle. I found it using a small propane torch going around the base of the injector / intake manifold ports. The short story of it - The idle miss cleared up. Just saying.

Last edited by BUP; 03-05-2019 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 03-05-2019 | 07:53 PM
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John MY BAD --- I see that you did PROPANE around the injectors / ports. MY bad
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Old 03-05-2019 | 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BUP
After the turbos were mentioned by Hogie - I thought that would be worth a try because of tolerance differences possible internally between the 2 ??.
correct

Also injector actuation could be a problem at idle. Injectors will not perform well around the minimum pulse widths required for opening. Even if they are with 1% at WOT. You might have one not even opening on a 1-5ms pulse, while others may open at those durations. there is variability in the efficiency of the magnetic circuit in each injector. Also as the seats run in they will tend to stick closed a little harder.
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Old 03-05-2019 | 07:57 PM
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If it’s turbos it may not be issue. Might go away under load and not be a huge risk under no load.
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Old 03-05-2019 | 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hogie roll


correct

Also injector actuation could be a problem at idle. Injectors will not perform well around the minimum pulse widths required for opening. Even if they are with 1% at WOT. You might have one not even opening on a 1-5ms pulse, while others may open at those durations. there is variability in the efficiency of the magnetic circuit in each injector. Also as the seats run in they will tend to stick closed a little harder.

These were good at idle rpms and all the way down 1 ms and if I recall even under 1 ms pulse width. These ID s 2000 s flow like a darn fire hose. I knew they were huge flowers but not like that. I ended up shipping them to ID letting them test their own injectors because I had to tell John I could NOT validate testing ID 2000s past 4500 rpms.

I will be honest these injectors out flowed anything I have ever seen before. I did not want to lie to John about what I thought was best for his injectors and I had to tell him what I could NOT do. . They NEEDED to go to ID because I felt like I would be cheating John because of invalid testing on my side.

Anyways hope that does not discredit what I do with fuel injectors because IMO I try like heck to do a really job with them, actually go way above and beyond testing and balancing everyone injectors as best I can .
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Old 03-05-2019 | 09:12 PM
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The 90 deg in the one down pipe and two 90's in the other would be my only thought after all the other you've ruled out. Also you mentioned they where a foot from each other. That being said is it possible that could alter reading? Other thing is there the same amount of open area around both exhaust? I can't remember without looking back but I know you mentioned cutouts behind doors correct. Just tossing some things out there. Hope you get it figured out soon. Those kind of things can drive you nuts. Btw congrats on the whole build/addition regardless. Endless well thought hours I'm sure. You'll get this figured out. If you can post a pic.

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Old 03-05-2019 | 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BUP
These were good at idle rpms and all the way down 1 ms and if I recall even under 1 ms pulse width. These ID s 2000 s flow like a darn fire hose. I knew they were huge flowers but not like that. I ended up shipping them to ID letting them test their own injectors because I had to tell John I could NOT validate testing ID 2000s past 4500 rpms.

I will be honest these injectors out flowed anything I have ever seen before. I did not want to lie to John about what I thought was best for his injectors and I had to tell him what I could NOT do. . They NEEDED to go to ID because I felt like I would be cheating John because of invalid testing on my side.

Anyways hope that does not discredit what I do with fuel injectors because IMO I try like heck to do a really job with them, actually go way above and beyond testing and balancing everyone injectors as best I can .
So what’s your duration at idle? Massive WOT flow means lower pulse width at idle.
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Old 03-06-2019 | 06:34 AM
  #29  
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I used a heat gun right away when I noticed it. Nothing jumped out.

BUP no worries. I value your honestly and would definitely send my other injectors to you. Unfortunately these injectors are very specialized.

The ID injectors are unbelievable. On pump gas I have run them down to .5ms at idle. Had the last engine running at 500rpms at 15:1 keeping a steady idle. That is unheard of with an injector. These injectors don't have any flat spots anywhere across the range like other injectors. The Bosch 160lb injectors come to mind. At low pw they have a funky curve to them. You command a leaner a/f by shortening up the pw and the a/f goes richer. Makes you really scratch your head till you find this is known with the injector. You can't tune them down low.

On the last single turbo setup I would cruise about 2100rpm at 65mph and the injector duty showed 1% on the ecu lol. Rock solid a/f. They only draw back on the ID injectors is they are costly. $1800-2000 for 8, worth every penny imo.

02 placement on my setup shouldn't be an issue.

Last night I started swapping the turbos around. Got everything apart. I'll have it back together this weekend toi do some more testing.

After some more phone calls it looks like the more restrictive down pipe is probably causing it. Was told that it should get better or stabilize under load. Will not be a problem under light load. I can tune the a/f to match under all conditions so that is not going to be a problem. I just wanted to make sure everything was ok before I started running it.

I'll update everyone with my findings on the turbo swap. Pressure sensors in the headers will be next just to verify and then I'll start leaning in it.

THANKS ALL!!!

I'm still open to any other suggestions

Last edited by underpsi68; 03-06-2019 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 03-06-2019 | 11:17 AM
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Did you try opening up the dumps?
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