Dash Panel Material
 

Guys,

I want to add an oil temp gage to the dash in our PQ280. The gage is readily available, and I'm confident I can integrate it into the oil tract (questions will follow at the appropriate time). The problem is that there is no room on the current dash to just ADD it. If I were to fab a new dash, there seems to be plenty of room to reposition/rearrange existing gages to make room for the additional gage. I am also confident I will be able to do this fab once material is in hand. So.....

What are some recommendations for the material of choice? Existing dash is white, and I'd like to keep it looking stock. For reference:


Thanks. Brad.

I had the same problem with my dash so I added the angled bezels to add more.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...4a91c24c1a.jpg

Mirage,

Appreciate the input, and I thought about this. Whoever installed the ProCharger installed the boost and fuel pressure gages off-panel, below the wheel, and it looks fine, even if it's well below the typical "glance at the gages" line of sight.

I'd like to avoid cutting any new holes. Additionally, both being metrics related to engine oil, I'd like to have the new oil temp gage right next to, or just above/below the oil pressure gage, so they are visible in the same glance.

Thanks. Brad.

Starboard is very easy to work with. You can buy it many places including Amazon.

No room below the depth finder? I'd put the oil temp gauge where the depth finder is and move the finder down below the oil temp gauge.

I did these on my Baja :


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Knot,

Not really. It might be a possibility, but the gages would definitely be crowded together, and I'd likely have to carve out the support lip under the dash panel.

Plus, I really want the temp and pressure to be adjacent. I'm actually really surprised Livorsi doesn't offer a combination gage. I'd have definitely gone that route if they did.

Thanks. Brad.

Dan,

Like I said, I really don't want to cut any new holes in the hull.

I'm also trying to keep the dash looking original, purple bezels and all. Don't think it doesn't bug me that I can't find/fit a bezel under the trim tab indicator. It's the only gage on my dash without one. I already have the matching gage sourced from CBM.

Thanks. Brad.

I vote 1/16 or 1/8" aluminum....can machine the holes wherever you want them and once done, powdercoat white. Lightweight, strong, easy to work with. Just my thought. Wish I had a panel like yours...mine was the same as 87MI's in my heat except mine is older so looked terrible hahaha. turned out pretty good in the end but I had to fill in all the holes and start over which was tons of time, fiberglass, and gel coat which sucked a$$!! Be thankful you have the panel hahahaha

In the end I like it just was a pain.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a6bbafec5b.jpg
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BBTSTWY,

Yours turned out pretty good. I can definitely see where it would be a PITA.

My only concern with aluminum is heat in the sun. I made a replacement panel where the ignition switch and radio head unit mounted in the dash of our Rinker, had it black anodized and laser engraved, and it turned out really nice. the only problem is that it got so hot in the sun it would kick the ignition switch breaker. I made a new one out of black G-10 FG. the laser engraving didn't turn out as well (still visible, though), but it didn't get hot in the sun at all. I know you said to powder coat it white, but I'd still be concerned. Beig black was obvioulsy a major contributor to it getting hot in the sun, aluminum does a pretty fine job of absorbing heat, as well. I only want to have to go through the wiring gauntlet once. The idea is on the table, though.

I'm finding ABS and HDPE "engraving stock" on the interwebs. This might be the ticket, as there is a dark stripe around the perimeter of the current panel and would also allow for a PQ logo to be added. While I can't find any white/purple/white laminated, white/black/white would definitely work, is readily available, and may well be the color that's there now. Gonna climb up there momentarily and confirm. I have no concerns with the machining of either material. It's the durability and effects of the sun that give me any concern. Anybody have any experience with either of these materials?

Thanks. Brad.

Johnson Plastics has an array of different plastics you can choose from, colors, finishes, textures, thicknesses. I used their laser engravable brushed titanium 1/16" and engraved my switch labels, then glued them to a 3/16" black plexiglass with slots cut for back lighting. Pretty simple stuff to work with. Can order small batches and they are very helpful on the phone!

Cerakote might be an option instead of powdercoat? I had one of the whisper pickles done for one of my rifles and it's a "dry cure" cerakote they told me to hold up and resist the heat. I can tell you that although it does still get pretty warm, it is noticeably cooler to the touch than the non coated other cans I have. Just throwing suggestions out there....I'm sure there are other coatings that will resist the heat? I def see what you're saying about it getting hot in the sun.

Thanks for the compliment on mine! Was a pain but I think worth it especially considering what was there from the factory! :eek:

CDShack,

Yup. Found them. I may have to give them a call.

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Looks like I don't need the laminated material, after all. The stripe appears painted, and the sheeting is white through-and-through.

Thanks. Brad.

Guys,

So, let's talk layout....

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...d8c46da87d.jpg


I'm thinking about separating the tach and speedo. My initial thought was to have the oil gages between the tach and speedo, and the depth readout and fuel below them. But the depth readout appears a bit smaller, so it would look kinda weird side-by-side with a slightly larger gage. Moving the fuel to the top center, the depth readout below it, then the two oil gages side-by-side beneath them makes for good symmetry. Water temp and voltage would move to the outside spots.

Thoughts?

Side note.... I think it's kinda cool how the TattleTale shows the recorded top speed when the power is off. :cool:

Thanks. Brad.

Brad, draw it up in CAD and send a dxf file to any guy that has a laser cutter or waterjet machine. Have them cut out out of aluminum...then either paint or powder it white and be done with it. you dont have any text in the dash anyway so it would be a simple thing to get done and you can re-arrange the gauges anyway you want....shift the depth gauge to the side and put the oil gauge next to it....

I used white acrylic and then laser cut all my holes and engraving.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...02c064aa41.jpg
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I layed up some carbon, then clear coated it, let me lay out the gauges /gps’s however and was a fun project.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...fcc58f55e.jpeg
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Seperating tach and speedo I don`t like ... I would replace the volt gauge with oil temp .
Id use a USB charger with voltage readout and put it below the depth gauge. Now you have a voltage gauge and a charger .

I use one to monitor battery levels when the engines are off.

^^^^^^^ Very cool. Haven't seen those before. Definitely the easiest way to accomplish the task at hand.

A bit off topic, but how is that GPS speedometer holding up? I want to put one in with the rest of my autometer gauges without paying $400+ for a GPS speedo - the cheapo one I put on my checkmate has it's stepper motor go out within 2 years

What Wally says - so easy. Take a really straight on picture of the dash and sit down with someone that has Adobe Illustrator and you can lay it out in dozens of configurations in a short period of time. I am pretty sure that the illustrator software will convert it to a dxf file. I did some aluminum dash panels years ago and covered them in some 3m wrap and they still have a very high quality OEM look - better than the originals really.

To be honest I have only had them for 2 years. I have been using one in my old dash. (this is the new dash that I'm swapping out over the winter) I have had no real issues except under certain conditions I get a little fog in it. And it's +2 mph at 75mph. They have been worth the $50

Liquid,

Neil Wallace has convinced me to move forward with aluminum. My plan as of right now is to remove the dash and have a local sheet metal shop scan and cut the outside shape. I will then use their DXF and start working with the layout in AutoCad until I find a layout I like. I suspect it will be just as I described, unless it won’t work for whatever reason. I am going to call a powder coat shop when we get back into town and ask about textured finishes. We’ll see where that leads.

Thanks. Brad.

Dan,

I don’t have a problem with putting some space between the tack and speedo. I mostly watch the tach, anyway. The only time pay much attention to the speedo is when I’m running hard and I just wanna know.

I do like that little widget, though. Symmetry aside, it solves the issue without replacing the panel at all. I’d still have to remove all the gages to cut the hole for a the new voltage indicator/USB unit, but I’m looking at that anyway.

Thanks. Brad.

I only matters with how you feel about it. Just keep in mind the golden ratio concepts so it harmonizes appearance if possible.

Function is beauty.

Once you go through the process, if you don't like the results, it will be easier to re-do the project.

On a boat I had years back I had a local metal place that had a cutting table make me an aluminum dash panel and then I wrapped it.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...09ea47d24b.jpg

Steve Dunning over at Innotech can help you if you need a new dash made. He just made me a blue carbon fiber dash.
Innotech Products Inc - Home

Guys,

So I'm assessing whether I really want to dig into this, as, as you undoubtedly know, there are a blue gargantuazillion wires back there.

I've settled on (probably) 1/8" aluminum sheet, laser cut or water jetted, and powder coated matte white. Might even look into having a PQ vinyl cut to go in the center if there's room. My local vinyl shop already has the file; he'd just have to shrink it down for me.

I will be calling a local sheet metal shop tomorrow to see if they would be able to scan the outside shape of the panel, provide me with a DXF that I can then manipulate in AutoCad and work out where I want to position the gages, then cut the panel for me. I'm pretty sure they can/will, but I want to make sure before I start disassembling this thing.

So...... For those of you who have gone down this rabbit hole, what's the best way to remove the gages, keeping the wires associated with the gages, switches and/or lights they go to? I'm thinking labeling them is likely a bridge too far, given the sheer number of them and the current point on the calendar. The dash doesn't seem to want to come out all that far (far enough, I suppose), but there are some cluster connectors that may allow it to come out further, and some zip ties that are likely harmless to cut as well for the duration of the project. Any guidance would be massively appreciated.

Also...
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...f3d8046ade.jpg
What's this thingy hanging loose behind the dash panel? It's connected to the back of the depth finder. It looks like it's supposed to mount to something and/or maybe house something, but it's not and it's not. Depth finder works fine, other than the fact that the transponder has come dislodged from its mooring (another item on my to-do list before spring). It worked perfectly during the sea trial and for a time right after we bought the boat, so I'm sure the dysfunction it suffers now is due to the dislodged transponder.

Thanks. Brad.

That`s your alarm.

I usually use tape to label stuff but I did get a nice labeler that has com ein handy more than I ever thought it would .
Besides shrink labels there are flag labels that wrap around a wire onto itself.. and lots of other options.


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If you get frustrated just think of my dash .:angry-smiley-038:
people been in there adding and rewiring since the mid 80`s!


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It`s a work in progress.

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Wow that is one wild wiring! Sure you will get this cleaned up. The label machine is absolutely tits! I'm into wiring my boat, maybe i try and get a machine like this!

AP700,

Mine is similar. I don't think anybody's been back there fiddling with anything, but there are a farq ton of wires. I'm hoping to just go through a process of disconnecting a wire, reroute it around the panel, then reconnect it to the gage, switch or light, one at a time. I'm hoping the entire dash can be removed via disconnecting the cluster connectors and allow me to do all this at a desk or bench.

Thanks. Brad.

Dan,

Ah.... So, it's a little piezo tweeter. Got it.

Yeah... I'm not gonna label all those wires. I'll figure something else out first. Or not.

Thanks. Brad.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...ac3c267d8b.jpg


Brad, its not that bad, It just looks intimidating because of the amount of wiring, but in all reality you have many duplicates like the reds (power) Blacks(ground) and purple(ign) blue (lights) the rest are the actual sending unit wires for the gauges. You can take some zip ties and bundle the groups together as you disconnect the gauges and just use some painters tape to label what gauges that bundle is from. here's a list of the "standard" wires you would find.....there are more if you do searches but these should cover most of them in the dash part anyway. The switches are different...you will have a red wire for the main power feed....then there will be the feed wire to the device its turning on and that may be any color the installer wants in some cases but 90% of the time its also a red wire. You may also have a black wire for a ground if the switch lights up when turned on.
Dont be intimidated by the mess...just take you time and go systematically one by one and you'll be fine. A good test light or meter also helps. :)

It could be worse....you could have a "friend" try and help you by taking everything apart before you get there and not label anything! :D
Some before and after i was done a few hours later. :)


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That was my 311 last year - so much butchering done by someone you'd think wouldn't (not naming the shop but will say that I was really surprised). I made a schematic, labeled everything similar to how Dan did his, and got it all back together pretty easily once all the crap was cut out.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...b2914fd2e2.jpg
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Finished redoing the dash on my Formula Fastech. Had another carbon fiber dash made with holes cut out for Garmin 943 and stainless Marine indicator. Good riddance to the Livorsi gauges.

That's really sweet!

Dave,

I completely understand the appeal, but I'm keeping my Livorsi gauges. Just too much work and expense for me to justify the conversion. Yours looks sweet, though.

How is the glare on that glossy finish? I would think it would be a nightmare when the sun is coming from the wrong direction. I'm doing mine in matte white for this very reason.

Thanks. Brad.

All I can say is I hope that you have better luck with livorsi gauges then I have had. The last time I sent all my gauges to lavorsi to have the gauges re-needled (not a year and a half later, all needles were faded), LED lights that are supposed to last 50,000 hours (NOT) replaced. It was a nightmare. Then four of the gauges needles were not calibrated or replaced
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correctly and we're all off. This is after sending the gauges back four times to get the issue resolved which wasn't. Then one of the needles that they replaced falls off. There's so much more to the story but I won't get into it here.
The glossy finish of the new dash is no problem. The dash looked the same way with the livorsi gauges. Have not noticed any glare off the flat screen either. Very bright display.
The old wiring harness and the Garmin took me 2 days.