Adjustable push rod guides
 

Do ALL aftermarket aluminum heads require adjustable push rod guides?

Don't think all 'need' them.

Just remember the adjustable guide plates are meant to be welded together once they're setup.

Shaft rockers is the other option.

Thanks for your comment and suggestion however I already bought the adjustable ones. I wouldn't have known that there was an alignment issue except I had a lifter fail. During that repair I posted a few pics of the collapsed lifter and several people here noticed that my rockers were not even close to being centered on the valve tip. Turns out the AFR 265cc heads require the adjustable guides and I was just wondering if the other manufacturers required them too. I think my builder should have called me during the assembly and told me he needed the adjustable ones. I think he would take care of me "labor wise" but I know the first sentence out of his mouth will be pull the engines and drop them off and that is not going to happen. So I'm going to find out just how much of a PIA this is to do.
Thanks again for your suggestion.

It's not bad and I have never welded any that I installed. There are pros and cons on whether to weld them or not, but Dart did not want me to weld mine. And I had never read of a failure due to not welding them.
https://blog.dartheads.com/how-to-in...ig-block-chevy

I put adjustable guide plates on just about every set of after market heads. Also, I don’t know the last time I ordered a new set of AFR’s and they didn’t come with adjustable guide plates and studs…..🧐.

The AFR guide plates don’t need to be welded if you know what you are doing. But it is good piece of mind.

This can totally be done in the boat. It’s not that difficult. Where are you located?

I've cut and welded guide plates on stock gm heads.if you weld them,make sure to etch the cylinder they were on.

I ordered them through Summit also it was during "The Covid" so probably SOP went out the window? My builder did ask why if they are necessary, why weren't they included? I too believe this is how it should have worked.
I've been putting this off ever since my post about the lifter and the alignment was pointed out. It's a PIA to even get started. I have to remove the back seat assembly so I can get a socket on the crank bolt. When I replaced the lifters on #5 it took forever to get the cam in the right position with the seat still installed. I am pretty sure I can get it done and I do have 2-3 months so confidence is high. :D
I will not hesitate to reach out for help if needed. Thanks for all the replies.

Why wouldn't a professional engine builder already know this and why didn't he realize that the rocker alignment was significantly off and correct it???

Good questions Griff. ( I was hoping that this thread would just die out )
Everyone on here knows that I am not an engine builder and FYI, I don't understand a lot of the "tech talk" here whether its engines, props, or whatever. Unfortunately for my boat, I do like to do as much of the work myself as possible. Whether I should or not is another question. Anyway, I like to think that I am learning ........and then this happens.
I pulled the valve covers on the first engine and low and behold, it already has the adjustable guide plates. The exact adjustable guide plates that I just bought again from AFR. ("AFR Racing Pushrod Guide plates 6109-8")
I don't know why the alignment was off on many of them. It's a larger shop and he has a guy that does the assembly. I do think the alignment should have been better. Maybe even though the alignment wasn't perfect, they would have gone 1,000 hrs anyways? My understanding is the higher the rpm, the more critical this is? By todays standards my engines are pretty low key and not high rpm mills. Anyway, I went through the first engine and have them all decently centered now.
I realize that it's sh!t like this that makes me look like a lost cause but believe me, I am someone that really needs and benefits from the knowledge base on this site and I hope you will continue to help me as I go along.
Thanks again for all the help with this........situation.

The exact reason I came to OSO all those years ago and stayed. Up to that point, Knowledge gained was in direct proportion to parts ruined. A boat is NOT a car! lol :cool-smiley-011:

Not a lost cause, you just learned something and did it yourself.

Should be a point of pride.

Better watch he`ll call you crazy and ask why you`re so angry all the time with that attitude!!!
Keep that microagression at bay please

The fact one engine had them and the other didn't baffles me even more about your engine builder. Unfortunately you trusted somebody who you thought knew what he was doing, and in many ways he did not.
Never have I thought you were a lost cause. I prob had no more knowledge than you when I joined OSO 25 years ago. I had basic hot rod car mechanical knowledge. 90% of the details about marine stuff, I learned here and there still a ton of stuff I defer to people with a lot more knowledge than me.

I think this engine builder needs a name. I see lots of west Michigan people on here and think it would be fair to know if it saves us in the future...

I asked the same thing last year. I had some questions about his builder before his boat even hit the water. I'm glad he made it through the season though.

Wonder what would have happened if he was sent non adjustable rocker arms. :)

it'd be severely rpm limited.

Lol

I looked back at your old thread about the lifter failure and you can see the adjustable guide plates in the pics. I didn't notice them back then when I commented about the rocker tip being way off. Lifter making noise - Offshoreonly.com

Griff, since we're on the topic...just to clarify on the rocker alignment... narrower contact sweep roughly in the center is better than wider sweep that is perfectly centered?

This is also a factor of what can live on a street or perf engine vs sustained high rpm on a marine app.

LOLOLOLOLMFAO!!!! danny, danny, danny. WTF are you doing posting on my thread?? You are obviously not here to help. Practicing your comedy act??? Based on the post, it needs a lot of work.

Thanks for your comment however no surprise, I'm not following your post. I am just trying to center the rocker (left to right) over the valve tip. The other centering you are talking about is the push rod length affecting where it rides front to back?

Yes, that is my belief, but the sweep amount should remain pretty constant

I've seen where swapping rockers from spot to spot can "fix" side-to-side alignment of the roller on the valve tip. I know it makes no sense. They should all be exactly the same, but my Comp Pro-Magnum full roller rockers were like that. Wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyeballs.

Hey danny, I stand corrected about your comedy. I see that 2 guys "liked" your comedic post however I have it from a very reliable anonymous source that they also like to get together and watch Pauly Shore movies because they think he is hilarious too soooo........

Lol!!! I will never give up his name especially not on this site. If you care to look on previous threads, only one person thought I would be okay with the builds "as is" and he was correct. To be fair to him, he too would not build any marine engine to the spec's of my engines. The rest of you acted like an old fashioned lynch mob. My guy doesn't build like ewe therefor lets put him out of business!! Had the same sh!t happen when I had a lifter problem. It was said that Comp makes the worse lifters out there, here are some "pics and everything" of failed comp lifters proving that they have an inferior product and obviously they too should be put out of business!! I countered those statements with very specific questions about their builds and all went silent. I do believe that the failed comp lifters they selected andused were never meant for their particular application whether it was a target rpm they wanted to run, valve spring pressure or I'm sure many other reasons that I have no idea about. This seems to me more like a failure on their part to select the correct part(s) for the application and not a comp lifter problem.
Ryanw, Unlike me, I,m sure you (or anyone else on this site) would ask or request your engine(s) be assembled using your known parameters. None of which I did and it should be noticed that in the face of almost everyone's opinion here, my "horrific builds" (as stated on another thread) ran strong and reliable all season long and I look forward to many years of great service from them. The lifter issue had absolutely nothing to do with my builder and you guys know that.
As another layer of defense from my builder, I mentioned he wasn't really a boat guy. The only reason he took my builds on was because during "the covid" no parts were available for all of the customer engines at his shop but I had been collecting my parts for over a year and had everything ready to go so again, really no reason for a name.

I know of plenty of builds that made it through a season or two and then had catastrophic failures deemed to have been caused by assembly and clearance issues after they were tore down.
When they make it past 250 hrs, and for your sake, I hope they do, I'll be a believer.

Thanks for your comment Griff . I was wondering if there was a "once you make it here you're probably safe" number. If there is a failure, I will not hesitate to post it here. Thanks again for your guidance and help along the way.

3 ways to handle this.
1) cut pushrod guide plate. Move 2 halves to where proper placement is, then weld 2 pieces together.
2) Buy/use adjustable guideplates
3) Do nothing. Your motor/you (or you and builders) decision.

Rocker stud bosses are rarely in same exact spot from head to head…even with same manufacturer.

1 and 3 where the common choices. 2 became a choice because they finally became available. 15 yrs ago or so ? 20 ?

They’ve been available for sbc’s since i can remember. Back to the flinstone ages.

Hey SB, This whole thing took a weird turn a while ago.
1. Because it was noted from another post that my rockers were not centered over the valve tip I ASSUMED that I must have the standard fixed guide plates.
2. Earlier when I had the engine open to replace a defective lifter I should have noticed that I already had adjustable guide plates but I wasn't in there for that so it went unnoticed by me.
3. Because I'm so smart, I ordered 2 new sets of adjustable push rod guide plates from AFR because again being so smart I knew that I must have the fixed GM guide plates.
4. When I opened the engine up for the 2nd time to begin swapping out the guides is when I realized that I already had adjustable push rod guide plates. Obviously I'm not that smart. I should have at least taken a look before ordering the EXACT ones that I already had. As it turns out, my guy didn't align the rockers as well as he should have.
5. It was mentioned that it was weird that one engine would have the adjustable guide plates and the other did not. BOTH engines always had the adjustable push rod guide plates. My guy should have taken a little more time aligning the rockers.
I don't know if this clears it up or not.
I do appreciate your commenting on this.

Building marine engines custom even with a mild recipe is difficult at best. There's a lot of moving parts to the process.

If one of the worst things is you ordered guide plates when you had them on already...no big deal. Mr. Murphy is always along for the ride.

Count your blessings you're not on here getting info on rebuilding the re-builds.

This coming from a guy who had to email me and explain a joke you were setting up for me and tell me what to post ...
You`re a weird dude .. I don`t need your life line, advice or what ever the hell you were talking about , I still don`t get your "set up" or joke but okay good talk .
and don`t call me danny , we`re not friends and I`m not 6 years old.
Jayboat posts pictures so I have npo idea what the hell you`re talking about there either .
I do appreciate the compliments thou .

This engine was running just fine too with tight clearance cause some car guy didn`t do what I wanted ( wanted to save my season after bad gas fiasco) and set the clearances too tight. ( this is after a season)
But I digress, he knows best , we`re just all idiots.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...99a3436edf.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...385320d402.jpg

Still LMFAO danny, This is awesome!! You are on my ignore list so I see you posted but not the posts themselves. I'm sure these posts were well thought out, witty, and very helpful. I hope you get many "likes" on both of them which is really your goal anyway. Gotta feed that delicate ego of yours.
I'm not sure how many more of your helpful posts it will take before a moderator on this site notices that you are unhinged and appear to be stalking me. Maybe it's cyberbullying? :cool-smiley-011: All I'm saying is you liberals have made all sorts of stupid sh!t illegal or punishable so if you keep after it you might get yourself banished from the site. I'm pretty sure you would not be able to handle that because even though you are probably on every other platform known to man, you hold this site in high regard and would really miss being here. Then of course I would be the guy who got you kicked so I might as well be banished too.
Even though everyone knows English is your second language, I'm sure you can understand this formal request from me. Please do not post on any of my threads.
Of course you are free to start as many threads as you want saying whatever you want about me, my boat, my engines, whatever. Just please not on my threads.
I do appreciate the ONE THING you helped with which was to add a ground wire to my sending units. Thank you for that.
Please put me on your ignore list that way you don't have to suffer any of my questions or comments. It's very liberating.
Bye danny

I noticed this morning that he posted on a couple different threads, late at night. Both of you guys have brought good things to this site, sucks to read stuff like this.

I`m a night Owl. That`s not unusual , haven`t been here in a while so I was catching up...
Wont see me post any time before 8:30 thou.

ok?

Pretty sure I heard a valve ot two float, so i just got caught up with this thread. Yup, valve float, not the rev limiter. :)
Doh !

Sorry, seemed like you were wanting an explanation why I post late , if not why mention it . My bad thou.