how would I find built date on my 2002 496HO?

PA. Woodchuck,

I got the serial number off my transom assembly and called Merc tech. They apparently trace the builds. Assuming your engine and transom assembly have never been separated, they should be able to give you the entire build sheet.

Thanks. Brad.

BoatNT,

After a meeting with my welder contact, and a lengthy discussion on welding order of operations and a complete rethink on fixturing, we've got a plan in place. I've got a stack of prints for fixturing, a bill of material for said fixturing on RFQ, the AN weld-on bungs in hand and a bundle of 316 stainless seamless tubing on the way. This should be fun. :party-smiley-004:

Like I said, what I'm building will be two separate fuel rails, functionally identical to the OEM on-piece unit, but will have to be plumbed like any other modular fuel rail setup, including an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator. It will be a flow-thru rail setup.

Larry at Raylar suggested it won't have as that much appeal to the DIY, shadetree mechanics that want to open the hood, swap the part and close the hood. So be it. He also suggested it should have some appeal to the "hotrod crowd". All good with me.

I'll start a new thread as we get started and try and document the process as we go.

Thanks. Brad.

Update on Brads meltdown and injectors: I just flowed his injectors in past few days as they came off the boat, no cleaning, nothing and they flow close to perfect with the injector 1 off "bad" cylinder actually being a slight over achiever at 1% above the mean average. I took it a step further, left them in the machine (modern high grade ASNU) and flowed them on "inductance dwell", a warm up test for over 2 hours continuously THEN repeated the test AGAIN just on outside chance that #1 decayed hot in some way to prevent a repeat, to leave nothing overlooked and it still flows perfect.
NOW, in speaking with the OP, there's a chance fuel pressure may have dropped during the 1 minute pull that hurt this on the water AND even though it had whatever tune done to it, he has NOT held it at sustained wot alot so we may have found the leanest cylinder in a 496 and might be his tune was "on edge". I have NOT had a 496 on my dyno so I do not know which cylinder is typically the leanest and when pumping air into one with a supercharger, that sometimes changes anyways vs NA. Smittty

Good info. It seems the 496 injectors rarely have problems. When they do it's a rusted fuel rail from improper layup or a paint shedding CF module.

Even if his setup had forged pistons, it would have likely been damaged due to FP loss and lean burned cylinders.

​​​I'm assuming the OP is running the procharger fmu and not a boost referenced MAP setup?

Ryan,

Sadly, I really have no real idea. We've been running with whatever the boat was set up with before we bought it. I do know there is a boost gage and a FP gauge at the dash, and the FP increases from ~38lbs in vacuum to 50lbs+ under boost. I also have a receipt for a boost reference 2-stage FP regulator. I have to assume that's what's on the boat now. Moving forward, the work is being done by an individual that understands what needs to be done. We are going to rebuild the fuel delivery system from the tank to the intake manifold, which will include a flow-through fuel rail and a fully proportional, post-rail FP regulator, and a proper tune based on an AFR table determined post-rebuild, done by either Whipple or Boos.

While I think the ProCharger itself is a fine product, the more I'm learning about their 496 kit, the less I like it. They just didn't address many factors as they should have. We are going to correct those

Thanks. Brad.

Pretty much true of all their kits throughout their history, unfortunately.
They just love fmu’s :(

Smitty,

Thanks for the info. As welcome the news that I don't need new injectors is, this was bittersweet to find out. We all like to find a definitive smoking gun. At this point, we may never know for sure exactly what led to this. It may well have been the advanced timing of the stage 2 Whipple tune, coupled with a less-than-ideal fuel map from the ECM, all working against the demonstrably inferior OEM cast pistons. The one thing I DO know is that we are going to address all these factors as we put the engine back together.

Thanks. Brad.

SB,

FMU.... Fuel Metering Unit?

Thanks. Brad.

Fuel Management Unit.
What you are calling a ‘boost reference 2-stage FP regulator.’

SB,

Noted. I'll have to dig it up, but I'm fairly certain that is how it was described on the receipt. All good.

is what is going back in during rebuild.

Thanks. Brad.

Guys,

So, I'm chewing on this, viewing this as a potential solution for others down the road, and need a consensus....

What size fuel inlet -AN fittings, and what size return -AN fittings? Maybe two different setups for NA and boosted? These decisions are NOT in my wheelhouse....

Thanks. Brad.

8-AN fitting

Rookie,

Inlet? Outlet? Both?

NA? Boosted? Both?

Thanks. Brad.

Both
Both
Should support 800+HP. And at that power level if someone is asking fuel line size they probably shouldn't be rigging a 1000HP engine.

Rookie,

Fair enough point. To be fair, I won’t be doing the rigging. I’m just building a fuel rail for what is going to be rigged. I’m also thinking down-road for others that may be looking for a replacement fuel rail

Not to nitpick, but would this be for each rail, or a single line before splitting to the two separate rails? What I’m building is a PAIR of rails, that will be plumbed together by Ys or Ts. What I’m looking for is what should be at the end of each rail, incoming and returns.

Thanks. Brad.

You could just tap the ends of the fuel rails to 3/8 pipe and the installer can use whatever size AN fittings that he wants.

There was a lot of discussion in my EFI thread about Y's and T's and they talked me out of them. This is what I ended up with. Probably wont work for your application.
I'd stick with -8.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...d75c6d4f90.jpg

would probably be better to cut them for an O-ring fitting as the pipe thread could split the aluminum rail as the ends would not be very thick. I am not a machinest so that is just a guess.

Shouldn't the return line be sized bigger than the feed line?

It doesn't need to be bigger. I usually run it 1 size smaller. Nothing wrong running the same size though.

Ryan,

Just thinking logically (as opposed to empirically), I'd have to think there is less fuel flowing through the return line than the feed line. This would indicate to my layman's lizard brain that the return line wouldn't have to be as big as the feed line.

But this is why I'm here asking questions. I don't want my lizard brain to farq this thing up.

Thanks. Brad.

Rookie,

I'm not sure why the Ys and Ts would be an issue, but I certainly don't want to build in any inherent problems. I'm going to be meeting the builder that is doing the work this afternoon to discuss details of the build, and this is among the topics we will cover. He is aware of my interest in building this fuel rail.

I could potentially configure my rail something similar to yours, but flipped front to back, with the feed and return lines coming in from the front of the engine instead of the back; feed on the port side, return on the starboard (reasons) and the connector on the back of the engine. It would actually mean shorter lines from the pump to the cooler/tank. Any issue with doing that?

Thanks. Brad.

I am trying to think also why would the return be larger?

CompedEdge,

You are very likely correct.

I will be welding AN male fittings to the ends of each of the two rails. The entire construction is going to be stainless; 316 seamless tubing and 304 fittings. Rigging fittings will have to be female.

Trying to develop as much of a "drop-in" replacement as I can from my wheelhouse, the two separate rails will be different, having to deal with the coolant reservoir tank and the offset of the cylinders. One will be a bit longer than the other, and have an angled end to accommodate the coolant reservoir. I'll post an AutoCad screen grab of the basic idea shortly.

Thanks. Brad.

Hey Brad as a salt water boater just to let you know 304 will rust in salt air. Just in case you want a larger customer base.

Just a factor: the return line is unpressureized after the regulator.

Similar to the concept of a remote fuel pump feed hose needs to be larger than what the pressurized fluid post pump would require. Unless there is an in tank lift pump to feed the main pump.
​​​

Only commenting on the rods because I don't know much about the rest of these particular engines, but I know a lot about rods.

Most H-beam rods of all brands are Chinese rods that are pretty inexpensive, and I could tell you the factory that most come out of. They are fine, they work, they are entry level and prices as such. I'm not sure why they have been such a staple and go to in the V8 world for so long, but I think they hold up well in lower rpm NA applications....low boost applications, etc.. In higher end motorsports engines, we don't use H-beam rods. They simply won't last, even in something like 300m we will see the H start to twist and eventually fail, so we run I-beam rods of higher in various materials and we can put them through a LOT more abuse.

Here is one of the strongest steel rods that you can put into an engine. Relatively Inexpensive, and yes also made overseas. I put 300-400hp per cylinder through these things and its hard to hurt one. This is what I'll rebuild my engines with when the time comes. I've put them in hundreds of engines.
Home | Boostline Connecting Rods (boostlineproducts.com)

Wildman,

I’m aware that 304 is less corrosion resistant than 316, but I have yet to find 316 AN weld-on fittings. I could make them, but that’s a PITA. Something to chew on.

Thanks. Brad.

Drag,

At more than double the cost of Molnar, and more expensive than Oliver, these rods are anything by “inexpensive”. If I were going to blow my budget, I’d just go ahead and get the Olivers. Molnar rods, while indeed forged in China, are not coming out of the same foundry as other rods. Tom uses a specific foundry that follows his exact specs for both metallurgy and tempering (Tom Molnar was the chief metallurgical engineer at Oliver before starting his own company), and are then finished in Michigan. I really like what I’ve read from the various forums I’ve stumbled across (mostly street/drag), and I’m reassured by the builder that they are more than adequate for my application. The Molnar-specific ARP bolts, and the engineering behind them, are just icing on the cake.

Thanks. Brad.

All good, was just a suggestion. I sometimes forget the retail end of these things since I buy in quantity or make our own.

Wildman,

OK, OK... You talked me into it.... :rolleyes:

I'll be making the AN weld bungs from 316 round bar. This means the entire assembly will be 316 stainless. I have the tubing in hand, and it almost looks polished (I did not order the polished material). After passivation, they should look pretty nice.

We are actively working on fixturing components as I type, and I will be starting on assembly members shortly. It's on the slow boat from China, but it's coming together.

This is a basic representation of what it will end up like.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...a87902fdce.jpg

The mounting tabs will be there, as well, I just didn't feel like taking the time to draw them out for this pic.

The hex on the #2 cylinder injector cup is an AN fitting welded on top of the injector cup. My intention is to attach the feed line to the AN fitting near the #1 cylinder, plumb the two rails together at the rear of the engine, and the return line will exit vertically from the #2 cylinder injector cup.

Thanks. Brad.

Lol

Guys,

So, I've managed to snag a Holley HP ECM and harness, used, through the builder that's doing the work. I will not be horse collared by the PCM555 moving forward. Which means I will be brooming it. He is also going to be doing a custom grind cam for me that will render some of the benefits of the ProCharger, closing the gap between the OEM and the Raylar 211 cam, while still avoiding any reversion. So that brings on a question...

While I was contemplating the Raylar cam, I was told that I could swap the cam without worrying about the lifters, due to their being roller lifters, so I'm assuming a good shape used cam could be used in another 496 with the same lifters. Would there be any interest in a PCM555, with or without harness, flashed with a Whipple stage 2 tune, and a (assumingly) good shape 496HO cam? This seems like a prime opportunity for someone looking to upgrade their NA base MAG.

I also have a TechMate Pro that I will no longer have any use for.

I will be posting these items in the swap shop when I get back from next week's vacay, but I wanted to get a feel for the prospect.

Thanks. Brad.

I havent followed the whole whole thing but .. I had Molnar carnks and rods and they held up great.
How tall is your hatch ?
How much $$ is it going to cost to rebuild these in total?

Reason I ask is , I`m getting some Eddie Young Engines and mine are for sale.

Spent $3k per engine on head work, everything new besides the valves. Valves back cut, all new guides, valve job, springs retainers, etc etc
They will be converted to Holley to solve the distribution and timing issue.
Coil on plug

$22K complete .

I have miles of receipts.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...48ad0b9c76.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...2dee8a1d23.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...7b6a3ef5bc.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c761a20e39.jpg

probably a little much for your drive lol

These are my go-to guys for 316 stainless fittings. Not inexpensive but they have a nice selection.
https://www.titanfittings.com/

Dan,

I appreciate the offer, but, yeah…. WAY too much for our Bravo 1. Hell, I’m pushing it pretty hard, as it is. Additionally, there is no farqing way I’m either getting one of those under my hatch or talking the wife into spending even half that for one of them.

Honestly, I’ve added up the major buys involved in this; pistons, rods, cam, head gaskets, Swaintech TBC on the pistons, machine shop cost, builder’s fees, etc…. I think I’m back together for somewhere between $5K and $10K. What I’ve listed so far is still just under or right at $5K. The Holley HP and harness are actually a net gain, money-wise, accounting for selling the 555 instead of having to send it to Boos or Whipple for tuning.

Thanks. Brad.

I`ve never seen a bill that low for a rebuild but I hope that
it works out for you !!

Dan,

Oh, I’m not so naive to think that budgets don’t blow up in the dead of night. I’m fully aware that battle plans rarely survive initial contact with the enemy.

Adding up what I’ve mentioned, and adding in the 600SCI oil cooler that has been suggested to me, and a new fuel pressure regulator, assuming what the builder told me for the machine shop cost is correct, I’m at $5600, engine out, rebuilt, and back in, parts and labor. This does not include new valve springs or gaskets other than head gaskets. The labor cost may increase a bit with the addition of the Holley HP, as I understand it’s not a direct plug-n-play on the 496, but can easily be made to work. I’m sure there will be other sundries that will add up. But I’m hoping to keep it under $10K. That said, I am actively combatting scope creep tooth and nail. There is a ton of stuff I’d LIKE to do.

Thanks. Brad.