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Originally Posted by 496blower
(Post 4933831)
I have always used the Volvo gl5 oil in my 290 drives, if you have the older Volvo drives with the brass cones use non synthetic oil, my Volvo guy said if you have the cones that have a black coating on them and they start slipping they have to be replaced, if they don’t have the black coating they can be lapped with valve compound. Also I had an issue with shifting when my idle was a little too high, shifted fine on the water hose but once in the water and under load would not shift out of gear, I just shut the motor off put in neutral and restarted and had to do that.
The old cone and the new one are both steel.
Originally Posted by muc
(Post 4933855)
Years ago, Volvo put out a bulletin on this. They go pretty in depth. Here's the short version. Volvo tech support and the instructor at the drive school both said to only lap with the old cone and check the pattern with the new cone. Both said all new cones have a special coating on them that lapping will ruin. I've never lapped a new cone but have talked to techs that have, they said they had no problems after lapping a new cone.
Note! Mark the upper and lower gear cups, so that they are reassembled in the same position. 1. Start by lapping the gear cups together with the old cone. Thoroughly clean in solvent and dry the clean pieces. 2. Using a valve grinding paste, lap new cone into respective gear cup. Note! One at a time making sure marking “TOP” on the new cone faces the upper gear cup. The proper way to do this is to: A. Coat the gear cup with a thin even layer of medium valve grinding paste. B. Insert the cone into the cup and rotate approximately 30° back and forth using as much pressure as possible for about 10 times. C. Lift cone straight up and rotate it 120° (1/3 turn) and repeat the above procedure. D. Lift cone once more straight up and turn it another 120° (1/3) and repeat the above procedure. 3. Note! THOROUGHLY CLEAN in a solvent keeping the grit out of the bearing and dry the clean pieces. 4. Apply thin even layer of Prussian blue marking paste or equivalent in the gear cup (1). Insert the cone and rotate under pressure back and forth, no more than 10°. Remove (straight up) cone from cup and inspect both pieces for uniform contact. If uniform contact is not obtained repeat above described procedure as many times as needed. 5. When uniform contact is achieved repeat procedure for the remaining gear cup with corresponding cone. Do you know what coating there is on the cone or how to identify if they are coated? The old and new cone are made of steel and don't look like coated. The old cone is definitely work and more "flat" in there areas where the cone engages with the upper and lower cup. I think now it makes sense why the old cone says "TOP" which is probably related to the lapping procedure so that nothing is mixed unintentionally. The new cone does not say "TOP". I think what you are saying does make sense. I'm still unsure what the "sticky" layer on the upper and lower cup is. The new fresh clutch cone holds onto it extremely well. If I insert the cone with a little bit of hand pressure, it's quite difficult to get out of the cup. I also realised that during dry shifting between F, N, R when turning the input shaft by hand. So in summary I should lap the new cone with the upper and lower cup with medium valve grinding. Then clean and check engagement on both sides with marking compound. Repeat until even engagement is achieved. What is still unclear to me is the darker "layer" of the upper and lower cup which is in contact with the cone when in gear? Do you know where i can find that Volvo bulletin? Many thanks guys. I'm super happy about you your support! |
Originally Posted by 496blower
(Post 4933831)
I have always used the Volvo gl5 oil in my 290 drives, if you have the older Volvo drives with the brass cones use non synthetic oil, my Volvo guy said if you have the cones that have a black coating on them and they start slipping they have to be replaced, if they don’t have the black coating they can be lapped with valve compound. Also I had an issue with shifting when my idle was a little too high, shifted fine on the water hose but once in the water and under load would not shift out of gear, I just shut the motor off put in neutral and restarted and had to do that.
Juat make sure you get yhe approproiate grit paste. The stuff you get from the local auto parts stores is pretty coarse. You may need to order it online. Clover valve lapping...or so.wthing like that. 400-600-800 grit. I've also used aqua buff 1000 for lapping duty in a pinch. |
service bulletin
group 44-1 number 13 version 01 date 11-1990 With this info any Volvo Penta dealer can print it for you. I wouldn't lap a brand new cone (use the old one), only thing you could do is mess it up. Cone design and technology have advanced since this bulletin. Don't know what the "darker layer" on the cups is, maybe burnt ****ty gear lube? Was it slipping before? Lost count of how many slipping drives would come into the shop. 2-3 changes of genuine Volvo lube with a little lake testing in-between fixed most of them. I remember one customer was a Amsoil freak "nothing better". But because we were a Volvo dealer his only two choices were 1. flush out the Amsoil with Volvo or 2. replace the gear set and clutch for $$$$. Kind of funny to see his reaction when 3 flushes fixed the slipping, happy he saved $$$$, and at the same time sad that Amsoil isn't as good as Volvo lube. After 30 years of being a Volvo tech ---- I wouldn't put anything other then Volvo lube in one of their drives that calls for GL-5 As to cone coating. No idea, I order the part number Volvo recommends and install it per their instructions. Only times I've lapped is for friends and family. I use the old cone to lap the cups. Use the new cone to check pattern. Clean everything and install. I use the water based lapping compound that they sell at the auto parts store, hot water rinse, blow dry and coat with gear lube. The oil based stuff sucks to clean up. Do yourself a favor and go to a Chevy dealer and get the yellow gear marking paste, soo much easier to see then the blue. A little is better then too much. |
Thank you very much guys!
I got red gear marking paste. Waiting for the lapping compound to be delivered. Will keep you updated about the progress. Once I take it apart, I'll also try to take a picture of the dark and sticky "layer" on the cup surface. Have a nice weekend! |
Hi guys
Since work got very busy in the months, I now have all the parts to replace the clutch cone. So to do the lapping, I disassembled the upper sterndrive housing. What I noticed is that both seats which engage with the clutch cone seem to have a dark blue ish / black layer on the friction surface. This layer appears to be sort of slightly sticky. So the clutch cone kind of bonds to it when pressed into the seat with a bot of a force. Does anybody know what that could be? https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...81fffe80d.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c574cddda.jpeg Also I noticed that while taking the drive apart, when I engage the reverse gear and revolved the universal joint, the main shaft is pulled up so that the top needle bearing becomes visible. Is that normal or is something broken? I don not recall a problem during usage (other than the clutch cone issue). https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...c9ca283cf1.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.off...de17458b6a.jpg Many thanks guys! Martin |
Dude I am impressed that you did this, i have a couple Volvo mechanics that do this for me as I am afraid to screw up my drive, I will ask them what they think. I just picked up a couple dpe drives that my buddy’s gonna do the lapping thing to the clutch cones. Hopefully the Volvo gl5 oil is cheaper where you are as its about 35 bucks a litre here and I have 3 dpe drives to do
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Originally Posted by 496blower
(Post 4946506)
Dude I am impressed that you did this, i have a couple Volvo mechanics that do this for me as I am afraid to screw up my drive, I will ask them what they think. I just picked up a couple dpe drives that my buddy’s gonna do the lapping thing to the clutch cones. Hopefully the Volvo gl5 oil is cheaper where you are as its about 35 bucks a litre here and I have 3 dpe drives to do
Haha now you made me wonder if I screwed up with my decision to take it apart. :D Thank you for asking your mechanics about their opinion. That's much appreciated! Could you eventually also ask them what oil they are recommending? If it's Volvo Penta oil then the PN would be amazing. I definitely wanna make sure that it's not gonna go wrong again once I lapped and assembled everything. Thank you very much. Martin |
Haven’t had time to speak to my guys, as to oil just get the Volvo penta 75/90 gl5 synthetic oil
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I will take a pic of the Volvo penta gl5 oil I have, what dp unit do you have A,B,C,D,E
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