This is off Red Line OIl ::: A National Record Holder in SS/DA, who races a '67 Corvette Coupe with a 427/Powerglide combination, one day switched to Red Line 30WT Race Oil, ATF, and LightWeight Gear Oil and picked up seven hundredths. It would cost thousands to pick up that much with engine work. After 50-60 passes the motors are disassembled and the internal components look perfect - bearings, rings, cam, and cylinders. Jim Jones, the owner of Traco Engineering, has built 350 V-8 motors for Corvette endurance racing for years. His engines are run by different teams using different oils, many of them other synthetics. He will get engines back from the different teams after a 24-hour race. All engines ran at the same track and have the same number of miles, but he can always tell the Red Line engines from the others. The difference in wear is incredible. The most noticeable difference is in the valve guides. After 24-hours operation on other synthetics they are completely worn, while with Red Line they are still in good condition.


WHO'S DO YOU USE ???????

///

jim- I certainly don't think any funky Kool-aid is in my future, especially over something as small (in my life anyway) as to what motor oil I will throw in a recip engine or drive in my boat. I will use what I've used for years, and it works for me. Everyone will have their own opinion and use what they will, without doing any homework remotely close to what you have done so far. I can appreciate your quest in knowing exactly what you are selling and wish you the best of luck with it- I have no reason to believe that Amsoil isn't a great product- it was developed by an aviator!. I am just as passionate over the jets I take care of and the products that are used on them, especially since there are human lives and machines worth millions of dollars at stake 8 miles up.
However, I am very curious as to why TCM had such a change in heart over RedLine, since they were so firm about its usage when Powerboat Mag did its article. Nice back-pedal TCM, but I think I'll keep using it anyway.

zahndok- Thanks for the update on Imco's recommendation; it was just a curiosity thing for me as well as others; they really had never gone on record of what they recommended.
I'm sure IMCO did some research before specifying them.
FYI, I did post a while back on an oil thread about the different classes or groups of base oils- this link (right from NW-Jim's Amsoil site) will help clarify what the different groups are. The full-syn Amsoils are Group IV (pao), RedLine and Royal Purple fall under Group V (polyolester). Your lesser synthetics available off the shelf at WalMart are somewhere lower. Not quite sure how Torco is blending the IV & V, I wasn't aware they were all that compatible of base stocks. Live and learn! I think I've said all I need to on this thread.

http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/article_xl7500.htm

Jim

I sure did not intend to stir up anything or create any hate and discontent. I was kinda poking fun at bobby since he was so insistent about going with "TESTED AND PROVEN WINNERS" when in fact they all are. There are many racing teams out there running lots of different lubes some of which we have probably never heard of and have great success.

As for Redline, I never have said they were not a good oil, I was merely answering a question someone asked about why Teague changed their mind. I do know they wouldn't recommend something they would not believe was the best since the reputation of their drives depends to a certain extent upon it.

Lubrication appears to have quite a brand loyalty to it. Kind of like Cults. I for one want to know why something is good. Just hearing stories of successes doesn't do much for me. Too many variables. Too many of the "after 24 hours with the other synthetics, they are completely worn" make me wonder OK all the engines were identical and every possible "other" synthetic oil was used and the Redline was the ONLY one that worked.

bobby, I couldn't think of any others at the time. Here is the quote about the cult thing off of Redlines website. I didn't just make this up.

By the way Redline was very polite when I called them about the different ASTM tests they performed and called me back with the information I requested. They told me their engineers had stated that the grease test and the fluid lube test were identical and the only reason they listed the grease test ASTM number is that was what the results had on them when they got them. I can buy that. Very polite, very nice. It would be a pleasure to do business with them. I am convinced they have an incredible product. So do others.

Even though I am selling Amsoil, I have tryed NOT to come across as trying to promote it over the others, but probably have anyway just trying to counter the claims of "PROVEN WINNER" status of the others. I apologize for that. My original quest was to find out if Bravo's should use GL-4 or GL-5. Not one person has answered that original question. Except Teague.

I find it good business practice to know your competitors and treat them with respect. If anyone were to ask me about Redline, Royal Purple, or any others, I would tell them they are great products. Because they all are.

There are a lot of things I DONT like about Amsoil, but they have to deal with issues other than the products. One would be the statement H20warrier made about Amsoils recommendation for the TGR 75W-90. I have not called Amsoil directly on this yet but the literature clearly states that the "AGT/ALU 80W-90 GL-4 is recommended for marine outboard and stern drive lower unit gears and bearings." and I had this verified by someone else who called Amsoil. This brings me back to the reason for my original post. I guess I need to quit calling Redline and get a hold of Amsoil and tell them to get their head out of their A$$. There is no brand loyalty here, just a quest for the truth.

Boy, I need a life.....

I had a set of IMCO SC's installed on our 1993 42 Fountain with 800+ HP on each side and chewed up the pinions on both using the Merc ****...we replaced the gear sets and ran the RedLine SP Heavy for the rest of the season.
It shifted smoother and so far held up to the addition of 50 or so more HP as to the boost increases we made at the end of the season.
I have not yet drained the oil and checked for metal nor have I been able to have a peek at the gears...I will let you know next week when I get over to the warehouse and start prepping the boat for the 03 season.
Mark

All of the Lab tests are great, but don't tell you a thing about your specific application. From all of my experience I've found nothing better in gear boxes, and rear ends than Red Line. In a drag race motor I'd also use Red Line, but in a street engine we've had better results with Amsoil. Just my own experience from what I've seen HP & durabilty wise, plus Red Line has always been able to mix us up what we need. 0 wt engine makes water look thick !

RUM RUNNER YOU AND BACK4MORE WERE ABLE TO GET YOUR AND MY POINT ACROSS WITH A FEW LINES THANKS ,AND THIS IS ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY FOR THE OTHER GUYS ,THANKS

NW_Jim,

In post #48, you were reciting some testimonials about what Zul's experience with AMSOIL which was very interesting. However, in your post from what I read, Zul was only speaking of AMSOIL for ENGINES ONLY----NOT OUTDRIVES! I think Bobby D was saying he prefers AMSOIL in engines BUT prefers REDLINE in gearcases. Again, from what I read in your post (post #48), Zul did NOT say a thing about what he uses in GEARCASE LUBES. And I thought this thread was more on the topic of GEARCASE lubes and I just want to make sure that everyone is "On The Same Page" and clear on that.

I mean, we're all arguing GEARCASE LUBES here----NOT engine oil---am I right? I just want to eliminate any confusion.

Mark/KAAMA

Eveyone has been talking about everything from Corvette race cars to Nascar rearends. I thought I would throw that in.

I just thought I would post something from a respected engine builder. Everything else I have seen posted is just heresay.

I am sorry I started this post now. Anyone have the anwer to my original question?

Jim, I questioned Amsoil on this very issue exactly one year ago today. I was just too lazy to dig out the message until I realized nobody else had an answer. Unfortunately, Amsoil's answer (from this particular rep) was not very helpful:

"The GL-4 is formulated for marine use , and in most cases is recommended for lower units. There are a few exceptions and I would follow what your manufacturer recommends.

Sincerely,
Ed K
[Amsoil] Tech Services"


The problem is, Merc does not give a recommendation. From what I understand, for what it is worth, Volvo recommends GL-5 lubricant. The only reason I can see why the GL-4 might be more suitable is if it has more anti-corrosion additives. That would be my guess. Who knows why they don't put it in the GL-5 lube.

Sorry, still can't answer your question for certain.

Thanks Ric. After all the New Years crap gets over I plan on having some detailed discussions with them.