Rpms
01-23-2003, 08:52 AM
#1
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Rpms
This here is just outta curiosity..........what Cubic inch, & RPM's does everyone spin ? I'm just asking because eventually (it'll be a while), I'd like to build a N/A 565 (4.6 x 4.25) or 582 (4.6 x 4.375).
Currently, I'm just running my little small blocks at 6,000 rpms with Bravos.
So I was just wondering what is a reasonable RPM range to spin a 565, or 582 cubic incher. Truthfully, I like RPMs. So I was thinkin along the lines of the 565 at 6000 or so. I'm not really afraid of the lower end, but will a big block valve train last at these RPMs ? I liked the 400 hrs on my small blocks without any problems before the rebuild (cam = crower solid roller 250/252 @.050, .584, .596 lift after lash).
Just like to hear some different thoughts..............
(Thanks.....bench racin is what keeps a lot of us goin here in this cold weather !)
Currently, I'm just running my little small blocks at 6,000 rpms with Bravos.
So I was just wondering what is a reasonable RPM range to spin a 565, or 582 cubic incher. Truthfully, I like RPMs. So I was thinkin along the lines of the 565 at 6000 or so. I'm not really afraid of the lower end, but will a big block valve train last at these RPMs ? I liked the 400 hrs on my small blocks without any problems before the rebuild (cam = crower solid roller 250/252 @.050, .584, .596 lift after lash).
Just like to hear some different thoughts..............
(Thanks.....bench racin is what keeps a lot of us goin here in this cold weather !)
01-23-2003, 11:32 AM
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Wow! 565's at 6,000 One of my favorite engines at a safe speed. If you will use long connecting rods, I like 6.8", and good solid roller valve train, these things will go more than any 400hrs!!
Especially if you are new to big blocks, do your homework and save yourself a lot of greif. OSO'rs usually love to help. If you want, pm or call me704-574-4020. I am currently snowed in and bored to tears!!
01-23-2003, 12:07 PM
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6,000 is just breaking a sweat in a 565.
I turn a 632 (4.60 X 4.75) ~6200 Natural and have seen 6800 NOS. engine builder says the bottom is good till 8200
Yes a drag racing builder..
I don't think you'll ever see 200hrs...let alone 400 on a solid roller lifter in a big block, unless you stay mighty small on duration / lift...and then it would make more sense to go hydralic roller. I've had multiple vavle train problems in the above motor but I run a fairly large cam 280/[email protected] with .750" lift. Being NA and big inch you have to run this much cam to make the power. Standard roller lifters just won't live beyond 40-50hrs. I recently switched to the Schubeck "radius" lifters to see if they'll fare better...the Jury is still out. There was NO power loss over a standard roller lifter.
I turn a 632 (4.60 X 4.75) ~6200 Natural and have seen 6800 NOS. engine builder says the bottom is good till 8200 Yes a drag racing builder.. I don't think you'll ever see 200hrs...let alone 400 on a solid roller lifter in a big block, unless you stay mighty small on duration / lift...and then it would make more sense to go hydralic roller. I've had multiple vavle train problems in the above motor but I run a fairly large cam 280/[email protected] with .750" lift. Being NA and big inch you have to run this much cam to make the power. Standard roller lifters just won't live beyond 40-50hrs. I recently switched to the Schubeck "radius" lifters to see if they'll fare better...the Jury is still out. There was NO power loss over a standard roller lifter.
01-23-2003, 01:43 PM
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JDNCA1,
If you stay conservative on the cam and use Isky or Crower lifters, good synthetic oil, good valve train pieces, maintain the adjustment, they will last longer than 400 hrs. The rpm is important as is every other factor, but 6,000 is a push for most outdrives and will still give excellent power and economy. Your cam probably is a terror, but eats valve train parts. You have to give up something to get something, just try to be on the side of gain!!!!!!!!!
If you stay conservative on the cam and use Isky or Crower lifters, good synthetic oil, good valve train pieces, maintain the adjustment, they will last longer than 400 hrs. The rpm is important as is every other factor, but 6,000 is a push for most outdrives and will still give excellent power and economy. Your cam probably is a terror, but eats valve train parts. You have to give up something to get something, just try to be on the side of gain!!!!!!!!!
01-23-2003, 03:16 PM
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I run a 498" (4.32 X4.25) at 6000 to 6300 RPM with no probs as of yet. I run a comp solid roller (272/280 @ .050" with .714" lift). I run Jesel rockers and check lash often, but have yet to make an adjustment. I don't put a lot of hours on the motor each season. I have been told to change the lifters and springs every 75 to 100 hrs. I doubt you would need a cam this large unless you are planning on running high compression. I run 110 octane leaded fuel and have 13.2:1 compression, in a 21' boat.
01-23-2003, 04:46 PM
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Ratchet ,
you just want to break stuff don't you ?!?!? Do you think Lenny and I have fun fixing our broken **** ?
400 hours on a BB solid roller that is spun over 6000 ?!?!?!? MAYBE if you have Jesel keyway lifters , Jesel rocker arms and titanium everything else but other than that ... no EFFIN way !!!
If you have found a way to do this you are a "Guru" and I will be giving you a call
I spin my stuff 5700 , cam is .723 lift , 258/264 @.050 on a 112 .
I've got Jesel rockers and used titanium keeper and run a Comp Cams spring and in the past have run Comp Cams lifters.
Well getting the springs to live is no problem , The problem lies with the lifters. The max I've had one live is 80 hours. The last set lasted less than that.
I have since switched to Crower extreme duty but plan on changing them every 40 hours whether they need it or not.
This year I plan on trying a different spring , I usually change the Comps every 80 -100 hours.
After building this motor which I am happy with , it makes great power (675hp) and is very driveable ( idles at 600-700 in gear) I don't think I would do another N/A motor. Just because of the reliability issues. I hate superchargers but it seems like the way to go.
you just want to break stuff don't you ?!?!? Do you think Lenny and I have fun fixing our broken **** ?
400 hours on a BB solid roller that is spun over 6000 ?!?!?!? MAYBE if you have Jesel keyway lifters , Jesel rocker arms and titanium everything else but other than that ... no EFFIN way !!!
If you have found a way to do this you are a "Guru" and I will be giving you a call
I spin my stuff 5700 , cam is .723 lift , 258/264 @.050 on a 112 .
I've got Jesel rockers and used titanium keeper and run a Comp Cams spring and in the past have run Comp Cams lifters.
Well getting the springs to live is no problem , The problem lies with the lifters. The max I've had one live is 80 hours. The last set lasted less than that.
I have since switched to Crower extreme duty but plan on changing them every 40 hours whether they need it or not.
This year I plan on trying a different spring , I usually change the Comps every 80 -100 hours.
After building this motor which I am happy with , it makes great power (675hp) and is very driveable ( idles at 600-700 in gear) I don't think I would do another N/A motor. Just because of the reliability issues. I hate superchargers but it seems like the way to go.
01-23-2003, 04:48 PM
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Blown;
I ran Comp lifters, maybe that was a mistake. I run Jesel rockers and very rarely see lash off by more than .002". I had a set of Crowers "on the shelf" before I decided to try Joe's design. I was ready to switch to a hydralic roller but sure hated to give up 100-125hp. I'm also running 10.5:1 on 93 Octane and need the duration to bleed down cylinder pressures to avoid the big D I have never spoken to anyone (including many major builders) thats ever seen 400hrs on a set of solid roller lifters in a big block...not even Jesel lifters. Small blocks are another story......I have always run full synthetic oil changed every 15-20hrs with a system1 filter.
The cam I run would be HUGE for a 500" motor, but a 632" needs a LOT of cam to make power. You're right it is a thumper, but still idles @650 in gear. I'm convinced that extended idleing (in marinas,etc) and lift are the real killers. You should check out schubeckracing.com the "radius" lifter is what I'm running. According to Joe, you will see 2 NHRA Pro-Stock teams running this design in 03' and I know Comp is hard at work on their own "radius" lifter. These are basically solid "flat tappets" with a Radius to run on a roller cam lobe. No needle bearings or link bars to self destruct. You do have to run a custom gring cam for a 1" radius vs the std 3/4" radius and change to shorter pushrods.
I ran Comp lifters, maybe that was a mistake. I run Jesel rockers and very rarely see lash off by more than .002". I had a set of Crowers "on the shelf" before I decided to try Joe's design. I was ready to switch to a hydralic roller but sure hated to give up 100-125hp. I'm also running 10.5:1 on 93 Octane and need the duration to bleed down cylinder pressures to avoid the big D
I have never spoken to anyone (including many major builders) thats ever seen 400hrs on a set of solid roller lifters in a big block...not even Jesel lifters. Small blocks are another story......I have always run full synthetic oil changed every 15-20hrs with a system1 filter. The cam I run would be HUGE for a 500" motor, but a 632" needs a LOT of cam to make power. You're right it is a thumper, but still idles @650 in gear. I'm convinced that extended idleing (in marinas,etc) and lift are the real killers. You should check out schubeckracing.com the "radius" lifter is what I'm running. According to Joe, you will see 2 NHRA Pro-Stock teams running this design in 03' and I know Comp is hard at work on their own "radius" lifter. These are basically solid "flat tappets" with a Radius to run on a roller cam lobe. No needle bearings or link bars to self destruct. You do have to run a custom gring cam for a 1" radius vs the std 3/4" radius and change to shorter pushrods.
01-23-2003, 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by WETTE VETTE
I run a 498" (4.32 X4.25) at 6000 to 6300 RPM with no probs as of yet. I run a comp solid roller (272/280 @ .050" with .714" lift). I run Jesel rockers and check lash often, but have yet to make an adjustment. I don't put a lot of hours on the motor each season. I have been told to change the lifters and springs every 75 to 100 hrs. I doubt you would need a cam this large unless you are planning on running high compression. I run 110 octane leaded fuel and have 13.2:1 compression, in a 21' boat.
I run a 498" (4.32 X4.25) at 6000 to 6300 RPM with no probs as of yet. I run a comp solid roller (272/280 @ .050" with .714" lift). I run Jesel rockers and check lash often, but have yet to make an adjustment. I don't put a lot of hours on the motor each season. I have been told to change the lifters and springs every 75 to 100 hrs. I doubt you would need a cam this large unless you are planning on running high compression. I run 110 octane leaded fuel and have 13.2:1 compression, in a 21' boat.
