I like the idea, its ok for all of these blower companies to make all of these claims. SO WY DONT THEY BACK THEM UP?

Or what was Loyal to make the change.

It does sound like a good idea, and I agree with the parameters of the test.
92 octane
if you knock you're done. Period!

One thing that should be mentioned however, everything in the test kit must be in a "Joe T Public" kit. Nothing exotic.
Sometimes you have to get technical.

DAVE

I would like to see this type of test done with and without intercoolers. I think that would really give us a good comparison of the blower performance and then we can all see if one manufacturers chiller design is better than another. I personally have no experience with fuel injection and would like to see the tests done on carbuerated applications. It would be a cool test. Just my opinion on the above!
Craig.

tomcat, I don't mind the test, your paying the bill. If you want to test blowers, we can run them on a blower dyno. If you want to test "packages" then you buy something off the shelf and install it per specs given, then test. Dyno will only show a few things while there are thousands of things that go into each system that makes it a good product or bad.

Dustin

TomCat

I think it's a great idea, but I don't see how it would work. If you want to test to see who can make the most power (safely) on a given package you would have to set it up (to be fair) that they couldn't modify anything below the intake manifold. This is the only way to test apples to apples. What happens if you can make the most power on an HP500 and live, but to do this you need to make a few cylinder head modifications, ignition, and say a firing order change. No way to go back to stock set up for the next engine.

I think a better way to do it would be like the engine masters challenge that PHR puts on. Set up certain parimeters, and go from there. Some of the things to look at would be:
Cubic inches, type of cylinder heads, ignition etc.
Now you can set up your testing parimeters. All engines must run on 89 octane, run @ W.O.T. for 25 Minutes, then you can put each package into the same hull, and do idle quality, acceleration, cruise, economy, and top end testing. And lastly a complete engine tear down and inpsection.

I would bet if you took a poll of the most common packages you could come up with specs pretty easy. I would also think getting one of the magazines involved and some engine builders involved would be pretty simple also.


Doug

Those are more good comments guys.

RumRunner - By sealed engine I mean no changes whatsoever allowed to the long block. The intake manifold is a Dart single plane, and unless the kit available to Joe Public includes a different intake manifold you're not allowed to change it either. As far as testing engines in the same boat, a boat is just a dyno, but it introduces additional variables such as weather, prop selection, weight and trim. Let's stick to the dyno shootout idea for now. If a magazine wanted to sponsor and publish that alone I'd be happy.

Dave F - The "kit" sometimes doesn't include everything. Sometimes there are things left out for the sake of a low price that you really can't do without. For example, a kit that performs better with a V-6 module, or with cooling system modifications or with a reprogrammed ECM or with a modified carb. To address this issue, if the manufacturer shows up with a kit that includes these options, then the reported price of the kit will be the price "as tested". This will also help buyers recognize the true cost of the kit.

Wette Vette - It is easy to turn the water off and on. There isn't much additional HP with water on, but the charge air temperature drops a little or a lot depending on the intercooler. Both carb and EFI applications would be welcome to the shootout.

Dustin - We already know that the compressors have different efficiencies. The objective of the shootout is to test the complete package installed with whatever components are available to Joe Public. Then tune that package to the maximum.

The dyno will show the torque and HP curves, charge air temperature, EGTs and BSFC. Other features of the different kits that provide certain advantages and benefits to the customer can be highlighted by the manufacturer. If I was a magazine writer I would expect to include this information in an article.

So what is the motor? Hp500 carb

Contestants?
1) Whipple with integreted intercooler in the manifold
2) Procharger with carb in the box
3) Vortech with carb in the box
4) Nickerson B+M with single and dual carb
5) ?others

While at it why not do the exhaust on stock and modified motor.
1) Gil
2) CMI elbow top
3) CMI full tube
4) Eichert full length caast
5) EMI
6) IMCO powerflow and thunder
7) Dana products
8) stainless marine
9) stock mercruiser
10) stock mercruiser with SS elbow top

$15k motor, $25K superchargers, $25K exhaust,
plus dyno time or boat time $10k.

OK so who's writing the checks?

I picked the HP500 as the "mule" but they are expensive. Any 502-509 CID with stock, cast iron, rectangular port heads and a mild hydraulic roller cam would be acceptable as the base engine. No ported or aluminum cylinder heads, custom cams or different compression. The HP numbers achieved in the test have to be simlar to what Joe Public can expect by bolting a kit onto his stock engine.

As far as organizing and paying, the magazines do this all the time. Westech Performance seems to do a lot of dyno testing on new products for magazine articles, often using brand new crate engines as the mule. I don't know who pays them; the magazine or the manufacturer. They need to get paid somehow, but the magazine exposure is worth something too.

Manufacturers that enter the contest would supply and install their own kits. A visual inspection would be made to ensure that the kits are the same as available to Joe Public. The magazine exposure is well worth the cost of participating.

There would be two main applications. A participant could enter one or both:

1) Carb
2) EFI

There are three main types of blowers (and manufacturers):

1)Roots
2)Centrifugal
3)Screw compressor

Since the magazines are on the west coast and so are a lot of the manufacturers we could assume the testing will be done on the west coast. Participants could be a manufacturer or a supplier/installer/engine builder. Possible contestants include:

Carb

1) Roots

There are a lot of Roots manufacturers, so the magazine might have to be selective. I would expect to see someone like the Blower Shop enter this contest with their new intercooler.

2) Centrifugal

Procharger has been selling carb kits for years. Vortech should be there too, once they make an intercooler available for their carb kit.

3) Screw compressor

Whipplecharger should be there. I don't know if PSI has anything for this engine size/HP range.

EFI

1) Roots

I don't know if this is a combination that Joe Public is likely to purchase, but any participant in the Roots carb group could just swap throttle bodies and pull the lever.

2) Centrifugal

Procharger and Vortech are the main players here, but Livorsi could enter with their Vortech based kit and their own intercooler. PFM could enter with their Procharger based TBI/Superchiller kit. There may be others like Energized Fuel Injection who could enter with their Vortech based PFM tube chiller kit.

3) Screw compressor

Whipplecharger may have this category to themselves.


The format is "run whatcha brung" but the emphasis on maximum, long duration HP pretty well excludes small Roots blowers and non-intercooled kits. This helps to keep the contest down to a manageable size. Exhaust manifolds and in-water testing are out for the same reason. One little complication is the need to have a 502 MPI intake and ECM harness to install on the engine for the EFI centrifugal category.

Laying out the contest like this you can see that there can be winners declared in each category, as well as an overall winner. Joe Public (we) will love this.

I think it's a fantastic idea Tom!