Help build my motors
 

Ok heres the deal, i just found out that the motors that came with my boat are 330's not 440 cyclones , very disappointed to say the least.... but i have what i have so i'll deal with it.....

Now i know this has been done on here before, i did a search for 330's on steroids with no luck can't find it, its not there......

the 330's i have are rebuilt(by a reputable local machine shop), never fired motors, sitting for 5-6 years in a garage.

So while the motors are still on the floor i would like to give them a big kick in the arse.....

Time is a factor, i would like to get these babies in asap....

Budget well i'm thinking $2500 per motor +or - , much more than that and i might as well start with 502 short blocks....

So with all the Vast marine engine know how on this site, i'm turning to you guys for the anwsers.....

The Goal, i'm looking for min 450 h.p but i would like more. .....if more can still be reliable power.....

what i have---- i have a set of stainless marine headers(i will take a pic and post it on here to find out if they will work with this application)

---- Edelbrock performer intakes

----- Q jet carbs and holley 850 vac sec(both marine)

In the reasearch i have done... i liked these items..

Dui ignitions(these do not count in the budget as i have to buy them anyway)
Edelbrock alum heads (marine) (good bang for the buck)
Comp Cams Pro Magnum Roller Rocker Arms with push rods
Cam ??????? Roller???
(any of the above items may be changed)

So here it is PLEASE HELP $2500.00 per motor
give me a list of parts you would use....
thx Gregg

I think the edelbrock heads are a good deal.
you'll still need the rest of the valve train.Springs retainers ect.Roller cam set-up, another$900.
I was going to go the same route with my 330 but bought a 502 base instead. I'd rather not have to worry about the bottom end. Offhore Performance $4400.....
Sell the 330's and buy 502's.
If you could get $1500 for the 330's, plus your $2500, your only $400 in the hole. Only $800 difference.
And whats $800 when you own a boat? Not much:p :p
Just my opinion.

I'm going through the same 'need for speed' dilema, and by the time I add up all the parts, i'm coming up with the same result as what convincor is saying. Buy the 502, sell the 454........:(

leave them stock...you'll be very dissapointed in what you get in return vs speed. do a search for jayl13...buy STOCK 502 if anything....

BUY 502 SAVE HEART ACHE
 

I GO WITH THE OTHERS buy a 502 then we can go from there ;) ;)

I really don't want to dump $12000+ in motors right now, i'm thinking that ii can reuse some of the parts in these 330's in future 502 short blocks...

And i know there has been some success hopping up these 330's
on this board....

Is it possibly to build 330's up to 450 -500 hp and get 3 +seasons out of them ??

Remember the motors are fresh , never fired... I'm thinking i can change the heads, cam, go with a roller parts and gain some serious HPand still be reliable.... i'm looking for a recipe for success here, tryed and true...

I realize things can go wrong ,nothings perfect... but the heads and roller stuff a can reuse on a diff motors no???? so the $$$ is not really wasted. on the 330's

If you where to do heads,roller cam I think you might get what your looking for.
As far as later use, the heads would be reused but I don't think youd be using the same cam in a 502.
I've heard that the Pro-Line heads that Flatlander Racing sell are supposed to be better than the Edelbrocks. They have a assembled marine set for $1600. Cast iron.

Here's a pic of the headers i have.......

What the heck are those???????

I'd spend some money on good exhaust first. That will be $1500-$2500 depending on what you get.

If you get new engines later, you can reuse the exhaust.

Griff "What the heck are those???????"
LOL thats what i thought..... anybody see anything like these before???

i do have a line on some bassett headers , but they are huge(at least 5 -6 "collectors , i'm thinking way to much for my application......

XCIV8 well I'm one of the guys running the 330's on roids. I have Emi exhaust manifolds about $1100 per motor so that puts a big dent on your $2500 per motor. I'm running Merlin Oval port heads about 1100 per motor again big dent! Msd's on both motors another grand but you can work around them if you like but they are real nice to have.Edlebrock RPM intakes and 800 cfm holleys you might be able to find used on the board I did...other wise $125 for the intakes and around $500 each for carbs. I have 9.5 to 1 compression with hyperutectic pistons not to pricey but worth it IMHO. This late in the game you might have a hard time getting all the parts together (reasonable) before you want to hit the water. I have a 1993 31 Sonic very similar to what your running with 330's it would run 64gps after the new power it runs 74 and I love it! If I were you I would buy a couple things that will make the 330's a better running package and that you could use when you build bigger power. Buy some Lightning Headers way worth the money $1400 per pair, Ignitions or Roller rockers would be my next choice to spend some $$$ Run the thing and start looking for the parts you need to build the motors you really want. I have a line on some parts for short blocks cheap, keep looking for heads and carbs here on the board and you should be set in a few months. I did the 330's because I had to I blew one up and didn't have the money to buy 502's' so I did the best I could with what I had I spent $6000 thats with new exhaust (EMI) I had one ignition and a set of heads from another motor....traded some parts for another set of heads,bought my carbs off ebay and bought all my internal stuff through a wholesaler way cheaper than through a marine dealer. If you would like I can get you Federal Mogal part #'s that I used. and one more thing I used Harland Sharp rollers not the best but a good value!
Good Luck
Don

I have a similiar setup to Dyno's, but I started with a 454 Mag as my base (bought the motor for $100 after it took water). Only used the block and crank. You can find a lot of used parts that could save you $, but I ended up spending around 6K which included CMI exhaust. Got my carb for cheap online, but went with an 850 Holley which is a little big for my application. Ended up with new rectangular port heads, but had a lot of work done to them (wedges etc) to get them to put out the HP in the correct RPM range. For all the money I spent, I'm in the 475 HP range, I could have gone with 502 Long Blocks without the hassle or sacraficing much HP. That may be the way to go....

Well guys word on the street is there is a shortage on 502's right now....... I called runsnew for the 502's and the guy told me they have been back ordered since oct. 2002 and when he finnally gets them in the first few dozen are already sold......

I'm not touching the bearings or pistons.... (being the motors are fresh).... i was thinking of heads , roller cam , roller rockers, and now exhaust... ah what to do ????? has anyone ever seen headers like that???? just wondering what they are and if they are better than stock???

You could mimic the Merc 420 pretty cheaply. I had a boat with a pair of these and a boat with a pair of 400 cyclones. The 420 uses a Wiand Xcellerator intake with a 1 inch open spacer, Holley 800 double pumper, Crane hydraulic flat tappet cam (much cheaper than roller), rectangular port heads with Crane gold race rockers. I used Mallory Unilite distributers with MSD 6a boxes on my 400's. Car stuff (I know its not recomended but they worked perfectly for 6 years and only cost $600 for all.) And last but not least I have 2 pairs of Gil exaust with std Bravo tailpipes for sale.

I can put the Federal Mogul part numbers here later this evening for you, evrythign that Both Dyno and SuperV, as well as Waterfoul and BGIII, are running. SuperV's engines dyno'd at 505 chp at 5400, and idle at 800 in neutral. Dyno's engines are the same as SuperV's except for the hypereutectic pistons in Dyno's.
Contrary to what Audacity said, you can be very pleased with 454 upgrades without spending cubic dollars on them.

Hey guys, Here is a 330 engine dynoed at Baker Engineering.

RPM..............Corrected torque.................C Hp

2800.......................486.................... .......260
3000.......................489.................... .......279
3200.......................490.................... .......299
3400.......................489.................... .......316
3600.......................489.................... .......335
3800.......................494.................... .......357
4000.......................499.................... .......380
4200.......................502.................... .......401
4400.......................499.................... .......418
4600.......................491.................... .......430
4800.......................478.................... .......437
5000.......................472.................... .......450
5200.......................458.................... .......454


The motor has our modified PEANUT PORT 330 HEADS, very mild hydraulic roller, large oval single plane intake, 830 carb. The pistons have a little more dome to compensate for the volume loss from the chamber work.

crazyhorse...i said "you'll be very disappointed in what you get in return vs speed"...it's an older sonic...heavy plus 25 deg bottom...if it has alphas then 330 are too big...if trs's??...big time losses over a bravo....you gota look at the ENTIRE thing as one big system and assess it as such...no one seems to be asking how the bottom on that boat is...x-dim....all play a major factor...peoples answer is generally to through hp and $$$ at it to run faster...the things that are most important are after thoughts due to"i thought it would go faster!" hummmm

Its got trs's ,how much HP i'm i loosing with the trs setup vs bravo...
i'm curious as to what the weight of it is , i have a 1986 broc of the rs 33 it says it weighs 7000lbs ....
x dim ?????? 25*bottom, the bottom is mint and has been blue printed....
the boat is in near new condition really sweet.....
my goal speed is to break 70 mph is this possible???


from what i've heard its a super rough water boat.....

My 30 Scarab with 420's, 6800lbs, 24 degree and TRS went 72.

This is my .02. I would pull the engines down put a good forged crank (possibly stroked a bit), H beam rods, some forged pistons and a cam with about .550 lift with as close as possible to 114 degree centerline. Then button it back up. HP increase would be minimal but the bottom end would be fairly bullet proof. Then next season go for some good cylinder heads. Fully ported oval port Edelbrocks would easly out perform square port stockers. I still believe the non siamesed 454 blocks live much longer than a 502.

how fast are you going now do ya think?...what props? engine rpms??

absolutely no idea......... I never run this boat .... i'm told that it does 60 - 65 with 330's

This boat sat in a heated garage for 8 years or so... the guy

built 650HP 540's.... got 6 hrs out of it and sucked a valve.. and parked the boat for 8 years... he thought it was worth a millon dollars(as i made many offers over the years) he finally called me this past year and agreed to sell me the boat with the small motors(at that time i was told they were 440 cyclones), i picked up the boat and all the parts, thn i took the oil pans off to ck them out (as they had been sitting for 5 years or so) i noticed they are fresh all new stuff inside but they were only 2 bolt mains.
so i looked up the engine codes and found out they were 330's.
so here i sit with fresh 330's figuring while they are on the floor ,i might as well give them alittle more.... and thats my story......

man...put the thing together and go have fun this summer...you may encounter other issues and spark new ones with added power. then find yourself toss'n more $$$ into it and wasting a summer...go have fun!...sooner the better!

I just might do that.........

Yea run it, and the serial numbers dont mean much if they were rebuilt like you said, he may have built them up to 440 specs, who knows?

So what about those stainless manifolds?? Go with them Too?/

I agree, through them in and run it for a season. I worked on a buddy's 30 Scarab with TRS's and 330's in it (GPS'd at 62) and it had some initial bugs. Put big power in it and had trouble with the Borg Warners. Blew a flex plate and a few other things. So, make sure everything is solid, then you can work on upgrading, in my opinion.

I think you have pictured log exhaust manifolds there, not headers... definately not headers. Major horsepower robbers. No matter what you do, buy good exhaust.

BT :cool:

Does the 33 have a 25 degree hull? my 31 is 23....

Yes 25 degree, good for rough water bad for speed

Spend the money on exhaust, put it together and hope for the best. Watch e-bay for exhaust or post a want add here on OSO.
Try to save some cash for the unforseen...

Put those weird exhausts on your lawnmower.
I'd run stock center rise Mercruisers before I'd run those logs.

I'd probably be inclined to agree with everyone that says put it together and have fun this summer. But there are definite improvements to be had for a nominal amount of money in the engines you've got. Wait until next winter to start that project. I'll still be glad to send you the partslist we use if you want it.

which exhaust should i get.....??????

ever heard of bassett headers i can pick them up
for $3000 for 2 sets..... thats what he had on the boat with the 540's....

DITTO!!!!!!

Get some good exhaust and put the engines in the boat. Who knows, you might need that budgeted money later after you get all the bugs worked out. You will more than likely gain 30+ hp by just adding the exhaust.

Then dial the boat in with a new set of labbed props for another $1400 and your budget's nearly gone.

I would keep the engines stock and then run a new set of exhaust. The 330 is a good reliable stock engine. It has cast piston and 2 bolt mains. Not really an engine that you want to hop up. To add the additional bolts and forged pistons will require a complete teardown which doesn't make much sense. In the meantime, $2500 per motor will get you some used elbow tops and depending on how well you can bargain you might have enough left over for new tail pipes. If you want to build the motors you'll need the better exhaust anyways. Remember-if you want to stay naturally aspirated you may need a longer primary than the elbowtop. A longer primary won't hurt.

When you do fire your motors remember that they've been sitting for a long time. I would assume that most of the assembly lube has run off the bearings. If it's never been fired the cam should be pulled and relubed. If nothing else you should prime the oiling system.

i pulled 1 of the oil pans and see the the assembly lube is still on.
to the touch it feels sticky , is this ok????

I could be wrong but I think you could get some Lightnings for about the same money if you beat the dealer up bad enough. Looking and pricing is free.

You can get new Lightnings for $1400 a set! They make as much power as the CMI's for half the money.

Any good leads on where to find these Lightnings for $1400 a set!
?????