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M-1 Install, reccomendations?

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Old 07-16-2004, 06:15 PM
  #1
Closer247
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Default M-1 Install, reccomendations?

I am about to bolt up a M-1 Procharger (with intercooler) to a [carb] HP500. I plan to run 3-4 lbs of boost to avoid any internal modifications (it has 40-some hours on it). My questions are as follows:

1) How smart is it to add a Rtech box, and why? Do the lower charge temps make more HP or present less wear to the motor, or both, worth the $???

2) I have a std Bravo-1 1:1.5 drive with shower. What drive should I step up to, or should I have my current drive beefed up?

3) Water. I have the low/dual water pickups on this boat, it runs 150 degrees all day long and still has the factory water pump. Do I need to add strainers and real pickups or can I continue to use the stock water system?

4) Carb. I have the stock HP500 carb on there. Do I need a bigger one, if so, about how much CFM and what type of secondaries do you all reccomend? If keeping the stock carb is reccomended, I assume a jet change is in order?

5) Boat runs 81 on GPS now, I expect to see 95 MPH with the procharger. I have heard a nose-cone is a smart move for the lower unit at these speeds, anyone want to confirm that?

TIA!!!!
 
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Old 07-16-2004, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

#1 first and for-most let dean nickerson do a blow through carb for you. worth every penny and you will bolt it on and never touch it. you will actually use a smaller carb body like a 750 holley dp. dean can explain better than me why.

#2 5lbs is nothing on a intercooled setup on a 500hp. it will run reliably a long time like that with no more than 30-31 total timing and 93.

#3 toms rtech box is the bomb. i personally run the stock procharger setup and thats only because i cant afford toms setup yet. they look and work bad ass. i know first hand, not to mention tom is a stand up guy from what mi know of him.

#4 you will run a crossover with the procharger setup removing your circ pump and thermostat housing. it provides plenty of water with the stock sea water pump. you will also need an overboard fitting to dump the intercooler water overboard with.you will not run a thermostat so your motor will take longer to heat up but runs nice and cool.

#5 depending on the weight of your boat and how you drive will really effect how your stock bravo 1 hold up. i ran 2 seasons with 600hp and a stock bravo 1 and took it easy out of the whole and was ok. prochargers dont make much power down low and this helps preserve your drive

#6 the fuel system is everything!!!!!!!!!! areomotive big red pump. boost compensating regulator boost ref. off the box. 6-7 lbs of fuel pres. at idle and at least 1 lb increase per pound of boost. once it is setup it will work great.

#7 let dean nickerson build a carb for you

#8 let dean nickerson build a carb for you

#9 let dean build your carb

# 10 got the point
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Old 07-16-2004, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

If you are starting fresh, Get the Rtech. I will be worth the money in the long run. If you have not done the searches on Tom's intercooler do so & read the improvement you will have over if you go straight procharger.
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Old 07-17-2004, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

Cool, thx for the good words.

On the nosecone issue, assuming its a Brave 'style' drive, should I add one?

On the fuel pump, the Aeromotive stuff appears to be mountable anywhere, as opposed to on the fuel tank, what is the optimal mounting location, close to the motor or close to the tank? Also, my stock fuel pump, I can't loacte it in the engine compartment, is it mounted on the tank somewhere??? If so, I suppose it would have to be bypassed rather than disconnected. I do have a fuel pressure gauge on the boat now and it reads 6lbs pretty much all the time, I suppose there is no way to add a fuel pressure regulator to boost that up to get the extra fuel pressure I need for the prochrager eh?

The comment on the cost of the Rtech is intrgiuing, how much does it cost about? I did read up on it and it is cleary better than the ATI OEM cooler.

The boat is (relatively) light, about 4200 lbs. Bravo gonna wormk if I beef it up? If not, what is the best bet, Imco Extreme, XR, etc?

For the crossover, are all the kits the same, or is one better than the other. I understand what they do, just I am not clear as to what is the best.

Dean Nickerson will build my blow-through carb.
 
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Old 07-17-2004, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

ok, fuel system. yes and no on the add to or use your current pump. it can be done but will require the addition of a carter or simmilar electric pump, no it is not a great setup. yes the areomotive can be mounted anywhere but keep it low. mine have always been mounted about the same hight they would be if they were the mech. pump. you want a good boost compensating regulator. they say the closer they are mounted to the carb box the better but i have mine mounted right to the areomotive pump with 2 #6 lines to the carb box and a #6 from the bypas to a fuel cooler then back to the inlet of the pump. dont do it that way unless you use a fuel cooler. i went with a xz drive they are not made anymore because they were rated for just a touch under the xr and they have angle cut top gears instead of straight. i can get both drives still pretty cheap. i can get you a new in box xz for like 4500.00 delivered. as far as the crossover you need the one from procharger it has a specific outlet on the intercooler side and i can point you to a dealer that will sell it way cheaper then through procharger. by the time you have your bravo beefed up it will cost the same as a xz or xr. buy a new drive and keep your stock one as a spare. as far as toms intercooler goes. yes it is better, no it is not nessesary. yes it looks much nicer and cools better. what you need to decide is are you really trying to build a ton of power where your cost could be justified. that is all up to you. toms carb box is big, make sure you have room before you even concider it.
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Old 07-19-2004, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

I agree with 502procharger on the drive issue. I had to purchase an XR upper last month and a couple of weekends ago I had my stock Bravo-1 propshaft snap off and send my new labbed 34 B-1 prop to Davy Jones. Buy a new XR and upgrade to the 1 1/4 inch propshaft for a few hundred dollars more and you shouldn't have to worry about the drive again. There is no question, in my view, that Tom's R-Tech box is the best there is and Dean Nickerson is the best at blow through carb setups. I would give Tom a call if I were you. I wish I had before I pieced together my setup. 509 Merlin with P.C. M-3, 504 IC and Vortech box @ 5lbs of manifold boost. (104mph to date)
 
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Old 07-21-2004, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

Closer 247,

I have not posted in a while but for this thread, I must.

I'm not too sure if you followed the earlier threads on the R-Tech Supercooler development, but I played the guinea pig for a fair bit of Tom's early applications testing both on the Dyno as well as on my boat and in the water.

Before I get into any further explanation, as far as the question "is the R-Tech worth it?" goes. Categorically yes. There are many differences between the Procharger intercooler (and all others for that matter) and the R-Tech Supercooler but to most of us the one that counts the most is reliable POWER. And believe me, there is a huge difference!

Brief history on my application:
1990 Baja 250 ES w/454 MAG/Bravo I
Stainless Marine Exhaust.
Other than the exhaust, Bone stock.
Boat ran 62-63 on GPS correctly propped.

1st step was Procharger Stage II blow through carb kit. (M-1SC comp. with AW-324 intercooler) and addition of a slightly bigger roller cam to the otherwise stock 454 MAG.

I paid lots of attention to the intercooler mounting position and set-up to minimize excessive plumbing (pressure losses) between the exit of the compressor, through the I/C and to the carb box.

As you have read, the fuel system and carb are key to a good running set-up and I concur fully with Procharged 502's recommendations.

Basic performance improvement w/Procharger was:
77 MPH on GPS turning 26P Bravo I
Roughly 15 MPH as advertised by Procharger.
And I was happy (for a short while)

After a 120 hr season I yanked my motor to help Tom Robinson with a Dyno test of his prototype Supercooler. We saw an 85-90 horsepower increase on the dyno changing only the intercooler! Unfortunately I couldn't keep the prototype and the production versions were not ready.

After a lifter failure in the 454 MAG (tie bar broke), I bought a Gen VI 502 and bolted the same PC Stage II kit onto it. I managed to get just over 80 with the new 502 and stage II PC kit.

Tom since finished up a couple of production Supercooler units and I was invited to Nickerson's dyno shop to do performance testing on one of Dean's boat motors. Those results have been posted but I believe they were in the 13-14% (+100hp)!

We then performed in water tests comparing my Baja with the 502 PC stage II to the R-Tech Intercooler. So same set-up that ran 80 but swapped in the R-tech Supercooler. Everything else identical.

The difference is amazing. Throttle response at the lower rpm's is incredible and while I am still trying to find top speed (still testing props) I have logged runs at 86.5 MPH on GPS!

For reference, the swap from the Procharger intercooler to the Supercooler resulted in a 2-3# increase in boost measured in the intake manifold! The increased boost has not caused any problems due to dramatically reduced air temps. I have measured compressor discharge and post intercooler temperatures and the efficiency of the Supercooler is amazing. I have not had a single problem and the package runs incredible.

With the Supercooler's dramatically increased air flow design, the lower rpm power increase is huge vs the PC intercooler (w/associated plumbing). As you know, centrifugal compressors do not generate much pressure at low speeds so the reduced pressure drop of the Supercooler really helps the low rpm response complaints typically associated with centrifugal superchargers. There is more than enough power to launch my boat out of the hole just as fast as any other supercharged boat of comparable size and type. And from 40-80MPH, there is no comparison to the PC intercooler.

And keep in mind, no smaller pulleys (reduced compressor life and higher air charge temps) and no extra power required to get the extra 2 pounds of boost. It is the same little M1-SC delivering 7.5# boost in the manifold at cool enough temperatures that a motor built to run 5# boost handles it just fine. I have done countless plug checks and things look fine.

The Supercooler is a winner hands down:
From a scientific standpoint, it is clearly superior in design and efficiency for its purpose. All you have to do is look at the simplicity of the airflow path and the size of the core. The cooler air charge temps and higher boost pressures have been measured and dyno tests done to support the horsepower gains.
From a practical standpoint, it's like "opening a serious can of whoop-ass" when you hit the throttle. Believe me, I've done the side by side comparison in my boat and have the data to support the performance. It flies (by my standards anyway), and hours of hard operation have proven the reliability.
From a value standpoint, how else can you pick up 6-8 MPH (on top of 80 mind you) with an increase in overall throttle response for a mere $3000.00!

No question, it is more than worth it, it is a no-brainer in my book!

And finally, if there is a need for technical assistance, Tom is top notch!

Nevrenuff
 
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Old 07-28-2004, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: M-1 Install, reccomendations?

Thanks for all the positive feedback from everyone. We are in the middle of our first season with the customers that bought units this past winter and spring. So far everybody is happy. We try hard to make sure everyone is set up well because word of mouth is the best advertising.

Anybody that is thinking about purchasing supercoolers or complete systems let me know fairly soon. Right now we only have two units on the shelf. The manufacturing process for new units has an 8-10 week lead time so we have to put in orders to our various suppliers in September to be able to deliver in reasonable time for winter projects.

Tom Robinson
(416) 709-8714
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