new Class 1 rules
 

In an attempt to reduce costs and gain parity between Teams, UIM have adopted new rules being introduced in 2009, that use the 750 Supercat engine. The boats will also have to be max 11' 6" wide, between 38' and 43' long and must weigh 9000 lbs. This is a big step in bringing about an international supercat class.

Exist Class1 boats and the new boats will race together initially. It will be interesting to see how this develops over 2009 season.

The Class
 

FX here a copy of what was stated on the C1 website:

The key decisions taken at the meeting include:

- the introduction of a new engine-boat package, 11.5m – 13m in length, weighing 4100kgs running 790hp naturally aspirated engines, which has been designed using the same power to weight ratio as that of the existing Class 1 boats, looking at attracting the Australian Superboat and the American Supercat-type boats into Class 1.

as far as it being a 750 class engine spec, i not sure if thats how i read it. and also in the WPPA rules they can not run more than 10 to 1 compression on a N/A motor and 8.5 to 1 on a blower. plus i think they run a max of 95 octane fuel which would not work for the current supercat motor since they are 12 to 1 compression.

i don't know if the supercats of either class here in the us are up to that challenge to run against those guys.
they basically have budlite mystic sized cats runnning close to 160 mph with just 900 hp.
thats doing some serious homework.

Check out this article,

http://www.powerboat-world.com/Class...-era/46893/arc

"'....The 790hp V8 is widely used in the United States in the Supercat Class,' Barry-Cotter said...."

It appears that if not exactly the US 750 Supercat engine then a very close drivative.

Maritimo has already purchased 21 new and second-hand 790hp engines for its own and prospective customer use. And has 5 of the new psec hulls under construction for the 2009 season. The new class 1 Hull spec would allow the 388 Skater, 39 MTI and 38 DW.

750
 

let me know when your ready to pull those 850's, i got 2 750's ready just don't have a big enough DW to compete with !!!

the no carbon fiber rule will eliminate alot of the US boats right of the bat.

The question that may or may not be answered is who or what is driving this change, AS I can see Team Victory pretty happy with most of the results of the rules in place, other than global economy forcing non competitive teams to hang up their helmets.

1st
 

pete first place doesn't mean that much when your the only guys out there. i think that this is the biggest problem we have in the US for racing. everyone whats to win so to make em happy we have a bunch of classes.

I see at as a compromise by the european Class 1 teams to attract more teams. Obviously the Victory, Qatar and even teams like Jotun and Negotioator don't need the changes to stay competitive, the have the funds, but I think they see the writing on the wall that it may just be them racing in the not too distant future without new teams from Australia/NZ and the US. I also see it as an olive branch to Maritimo so Bill will bring his boats back and more teams with him.

Will it work? I think the teams that are already building boats in Austrailia will obviously come over and that in itself will put Class 1 back over 10 boats. I don't see many US teams jumping at the chance to travel abroad just quite yet. Especially if all the bigger, more powerful boats are grandfathered in for a time.

If anything, this will be great for Mercury and Sterling, those teams will buy all the engines that can get their hands on.

I hate to differ on this but,
to convince many less funded teams that they have a chance just plays into a agenda. To the top tier Class one teams $$$ is no object.

I have no doubt there is an agenda (more boats). There is also no doubt that the top teams spending will not change all that much. Testing new hulls, new setups, new parts all takes great resources. There will be more teams racing, but I don't see the podiums changing too much. The showing up price will be dramatically reduced, but the running up front price won't be.

I still think it is a step in the right direction.

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...d.php?t=194384

can anyone actually find the new 2009 class 1 technical rules anywhere.

the guy in australia bought all bulls motors...these guys want a simple engine package ..they have gone through alot ..hes Steve Curtis's friend...keeping it simple keeps it cheap...

They have had enough of all the hi-tech electronics in these classes that has killed the sport over there
Steve claims alot of teams are excited and jumping on board..


would be cool if they came to Key west....just so they keep those 5 axis props over there....

Its a shame they dont have a motor company over there like Mercury racing that could be at there races supporting there motor package. :party-smiley-004:
I think its great that they trying to keep the smaller funded teams in the sport and not just out spending everyone till there is no competition. It shows they are thinking of the sport. Do the race teams over there have a say in the rules or is it just what the owner of the organization thinks is right?
Are you and Tom thinking of racing over there? It sounds like you should fit right in. I would think the big expense would be getting the boats there but once they arrive you could just leave them there and cut down on the cost. Looks like it will grow over there faster than it ever will here.
MD

they are way cool.:evilb:

md too much for my budget..i missed Steves call today and i'll talk to him tommorrow..they have about 12-14 supercat motors if Mercury would rebuild i'm sure they would send them over..I dont know when they ran the 850's in 06 what support they gave..I know Cappa did alot of rebuilds on the 850's...

Joe boat looks great..the 5 axis props are the baddest ...little ...over my budget....
Cant wait to see it in KEY WEST...

im not sure if they have a 3 prop rule

Tony,

Do you think they would be willing to make the trip next year to KW ??

i would talk to them soon, this year they race oct 23-25 in egypt then dec 4-13 in dubai.... they would probably have to move both of those dates to make it feasible to get boats back and forth.

Yes with Steve Curtis on our side I think its possible...they came over in the early 80's thats when my engine builder UNITED racing engines from miami started doing Victory teams motors...Ill talk to Steve tommorrow and see what these guys are doing...looks promising...SBI's key west event would be very tempting....Its good news for SUPERCAT...Extreme u ready for key west???

We have a few issues but we'll see what happen tring to make it if we can .
I called the other day and left you a message give me a call when u get a chance.

Frank

Victory was last in the states in 1992 at Sarasota. They waxed every class they were in from outboard to class 1. I think the worlds were in Atlantic City in 92, Not sure. Ask Chuck he was there. I do not know if they raced in the states before that. They had Randy,Ed Collier,Felix, Joey Imprecia as throttlemen.

pat W

ill have ask chuck..i thought chuck met them in key west n the 80's..do u think class one will do this...frank call me tommorrow..

Tony,

If class 1 goes in this direction will the states follow? They can be full of c r a p too. Jan Z.(Jotun) punched Venterelli (victory)in the nose last year during a wppa/iota meeting so I think it is hard to pass things through with that many ego's. I think it is a good move. The boats will take more abuse and be less likely to have a sudden end. Cheaper too. The key thing is where do qatar and victory stand.

Clean out your aol account so I can send you some pics of the new toys. Went testing for 3 hrs. yesterday out of the box.:ernaehrung004:

pat W

Tony,

Bottom line Bill (Barrie-Cotter) is pushing it for his benefit, ie: he has bought up all the engines he can for "prospective customers". Bill is not a stupid person, if he can see a buck in it then he will do it. Yes I hope it brings in more teams but like has been pointed out the budgets that Sheikh Ahmed (Victory) and Sheikh Hassan (Qatar) have dwarfs anything that teams in the US or Australia/NZ could even dream of. Go for a wander through the Victory team building and see how much they have tied up in this, its staggering.

The chances of Saeed and co (Dubai Intl Marine Club & WPPA) changing the Dec dates so the boats could go to Key West I think are slim to none, as those dates have some signifcance for them and unless they are airfreighted there is no way they would get there and back in time, and its the final race of the Class 1 season.

Bill (Barrie-Cotter) spat the dummy a number of years ago when the rules kept getting changed in Class 1 and he took all his toys and went back to Australia. Whats to say this time isnt going to be any different. I for one would love to see more boats on the Class 1 circuit, they put on an awesome event and the hospitality is great. Like someone said, the entry price might be easier to get into the class, but if you want to win its still going to be the guys with the biggest chequebook who win.

It would be fantastic to see Tony, Bob Bull, Tom Abrahms, Dave Scott and co run in Class 1 and there are about 6 boats downunder that would be eligible as well. Mind you who would end up with Steve Curtis - Tom or Sheikh Hassan :boat:

Ned

Just my two cents worth.

I see..ned call me when u can...i figured u knew him from down there..havent heard from u ..are they going to the rest of class one with this???

Im shocked they have rule issues over there in class1. :rolleyes:
And I thought it was just the teams in the US that couldnt get it right.
MD

Dosen't matter who steve goes with Vinny & I are gonna kick everybody's a$$ anyway:rolleyes:

could u imagne bigboy racing over there...oh no

randy there tryin to keep costs down..the electronics they use is unbelievable over there..not just engine management...the motor packages have alot of variables...

u better be ready bigboy...oh Pete let me work on your boat while it was at Skater
I checked the whole electrical system and I "think" everything is tight....he even let me straighten the bottom of your boat up it was a little crooked....

Great post Ned...it's nice to see it NOT all sugar coated like so many posts are.....I could easily see this turning out with Victory Pulling out and then where would class 1 be????

Ryan,

I doubt Victory would pull out of Class 1 or any other racing they do as they are not just there as a team, but they represent Dubai as a country and are an integral part of the Dubai Tourism marketing structure. All they will do is build boats under the new rules and still have the same budget. They got involved in Class 3 - 6 Litre and run very well in that class as well. They dont win every race but they are competitive.

Sheikh Hassan from Qatar is the same way, the boats are just called Qatar and they are used to promote the country, not individuals. The one thing I do like is how the rules will limit what you can do with the boats, so it comes down more to the guys who maintain the engines, often the forgotten heroes, and the guys behind the wheels. It will become more about reliability and the set up of the boats rather than how much money you can put into the boat.

But even if Victory pulled out Class 1 would still move ahead as you have some great teams there such as the Italians, Jotun, etc and its like saying if Gary Ballough pulled out of your racing there then more people would get the opportunity to win the races :) :)

I doubt they would leave Class 1 but if they did that could just be the catalyst for more teams to enter as they know they have a lot better chance of winning. Class III 6 Litre have over 30 boats entered in each race and Victory and Qatar are just two of the teams. Its probably one of the best series out there and is a feeder class for the Class 1 teams. Qatar and Victory use this class to "train" their younger drivers and when the time is right they step them up to the big boats.

Anyway I am digressing a bit here. Bottom line I would actually see Class 1 getting stronger if they lock the rules in. Maybe they could schedule a specific Key West race where they have both P1 and Class 1 racing. Now that would be a drawcard.

Ned

It is very similar to what happened in the US 10 years ago. 2 teams went head to head in Open class and out spent EVERYONE. That was the end of Open class and let to SUPERCAT. CLASS 1 has evolved from the same OPEN class that we had here 10 years ago that I speak of. With Victory teams traction control & gyros it sounds to me like they've by far out spent every one else.

Very few people in the US seem to be intrested in Class III / 6 Litre right now. GB has been at the top of that game for along time . He has raced stock class since around 1986, that is along time to hone his skills and now he is the best. He's had some competition over the last few years but still managed to do quite well, but I agree , he may scare some people out of the class.

There will always be a few teams that will outspend in every class, no matter which class it is. It is near impossible to control this for sure. The VICTORY team has way too much money invested to just bail out, but I am surprised that they would allow the rules to be manipulated another direction after they spent so much developing the current technologies that they are using.

I believe it would make more sense for EVERYONE to race in a smaller class that EVERYONE can afford to some extent instead of Class 1 that only a very few could ever afford to race in. Just like anything else it usually about egos and someone always having to have the biggest boat or spend the most. Imagine if all the boats were 6 litre the class on teams could run 4 boats each compared to what it costs them to run one C1 boat.

How many Class one team are there currently? How many teams won a race this season?

I was on the Australian site recently and realized there was a good class of boats in C1 there , will they all compete in Class One next season abroad? Isn't that going to really hurt the racing down under?

They best KW race ever was 1987 as I remember with a large fleet of foreign entries. With the current Class 1 schedule I don't see how they could ever make KW in Nov. I don't think you can put any class 1 boat on an airplane as they are too wide. But I could be wrong. I usually am.

rules
 

there seems to be alot of people that would like to see C1 over here. but what class would they race? is either 850 and 750 guys going to adopt the new C1 rule? so that they could at least run together.

second why would they change their schedule to please us at the KW race? these guys are use to seeing 10 plus boats that are all in the same class. we got 10 plus classes with maybe a four boat average??

Ryan,

The reason Victory and Qatar to a degree, have outspent everyone is because with the way the rules are at the moment - they can. Now with the new rules in place all the areas where they are spending their money will not be allowed, so hence they wont be able to gain an advantage there. The idea is to make Class 1 affordable for a lot more people, and limiting what they can do is the way to go. Sort of like the A1GP car racing, now thats as equal as you can get. You still have some areas where you can tweak the cars but bottom line is it comes down to driver skill and reliability of the car and engine. They dont have traction control and all that stuff, hence a lot more cars go off roading.

I do think they are on the right track and its not about Victory Team giving up their advantage, they want to be seen to be winning a "real" world title. Anyone can win a title if they are the only boat in the class or their competition has about 1/10th of the budget. These new rules will even up the playing field so that when a champion is crowned at the end of the season - it is the mechanics and drivers and team who have earnt it, not the accountant. The reason these guys like racing Class 1 is because, no matter what you or I think, it is THE top of the offshore classes. Ever been to one of their races, its like going to a Formula 1 race, the hospitality is awesome and they look after the media and they promote themselves and all their teams are in uniforms etc. Sort of like going to a US race and seeing Haggins AMF team and Reliable Carriers team x 10. Its impressive.

In the last round of the Class 1 series I think there were 12 boats, but there have been as little as 8 at some races and its not only Victory who are winning, they have had reliability problems. Jotun have won two races and I think even took out the European Champion title. Jotun is going into the Egypt race chasing a hat trick of wins and in the last race Victory was only third so they dont always have it their own way. A couple of the teams have recently added a second boat to their team so the numbers are increasing. I for one would love to see a 20 plus field in a Class 1 race. Now that would be amazing, with boats from Australia and USA in there as well.

With regards to the Class 1 racing in Australia, bottom line is its a joke. Three of the six boats are Bill Barrie Cotters, one is Steve Searles and he is keen to race intl Class 1 and Mark has a newish 39 ft MTI that is new on the scene this year. The way it is now Bills boats take most of the placings so it is basically the Maritimo circus. In my opinion there is no point in having Class 1 in Australia as its the same ole same ole every race and it would be better for the sport for Bill to take his boats, and Searley to take his and run in the proper Class 1 championship. They both have the budgets for it. Class 1 has never been big downunder, and in fact there has only ever been about 6 or so boats running for as long as I can remember.

I agree there is no way they could ever make KW in November but who is to say that a seperate event couldnt be put on at KW or somewhere else in Florida some other time during the year that would fit in with everyones schedules. If it was me I would look at trying to get the Offshore Pro Series to work with P1 and Class 1 and make a joint event, what about Key Biscayne. Now that would be an awesome place for a race and think about the crowd you could pull.

SkaterDave,

Since I dont know the exact rules I would guess that maybe the offshore pro series guys would be eligible, or if not it might take a little bit of work to modify engines to be eligible. I know people like Bob Bull, Tony, Tom, Dave Scott and JT, would make sure the US had a great presence in any Class 1 race there in Florida.

You talk about the boat count, how about running the Class 1 as one class, Powerboat P1 as another, and then have Cat Lite and Cat Outboard and Turbine Extreme (have to have AMF and JBS there) as supporting classes. Imagine that days racing :ernaehrung004:

Cheers

Ned

Listen here DumbFox I know better !! REAL racers don't cheat or sabotage the compititions equipment. After a couple of good old fashon a$$ woopins they just go back to work and the cycle starts all over again



























































then every once in a while a DYNASTY hangs around for while before the cycle starts again

i like you guys.... you are funny. jimmy, dont go over there, there are no bailbonds men. :evilb: