Svl
 

So 105 in an SVL thats gotta be legal stuff right, Im sure they put a bigger engine in for the shootout. How do the legal SVLs feel about this for Key West?

They will have to go through inspection same as and other team. The boat will have to meet all the SBI rules no different then any other teams. same as they had to do in Mich City. I'm sure they moved the drive backl up after Mich City and like you said no one know what motor they used really didnt matter at Loto.

My geuss is the next time that boat shows up at a race the org that it shows up at will have to spend hours inspecting it. If its multipal days of racing like KW it should be inspected before EVERY race and after. No one is better than Brain at crossing the line. The trust is gone for there team by the rest of the SVL teams. If they win they will be known as the team that must have done something illeagal. Why bother showing. Its so simple go to Merc., get a sealed motor, have someone install it other than Brian and dont let anyone else touch your boat. If the boat goes back to Fountain then you never know what you will get back.

Go Get,em Cowboy !:coolcowboy:LOL

I dont know why they need a inspection. Why can't we just take their word. Brian said their motor was a "tired 525".

:bsflag:

With legal gears, legal prop, legal RPM and zero slip, does the math even work out to go that fast in SVL?

Problem is, it looks like an SVL so they call it that.....or are they saying it meets SVL rules of sealed Merc Motor?

No one said it was a legal anything, at Loto he can run any motor, weight, and drive height he wants. I'm sure he had the drive to the moon, but thats not going to work at a race. He know what the rules are and had the proper drive height in Mich City.

I wanna see the Fountain in legal form ,with Brian in it ,go against the " White Boat" with gary d ,and miklos .I know any LEGAL svl can win on any day .I just think that would generate some fun .

Lance in Octane had 800 hp 598ci last year and went 100mph.

I would guess a 150 hp shot of Nitrous on top of the 650hp 525, or it is the new mercury/fountain Supercat 525

It did go from 86 mph to 105mph in the same day.

Doesn't mater who you are, it still takes X hp to move X weight distance. Can't cheat physics.

If it is the most efficient v-hull ever made, it will still take 700 hp min to achieve those numbers.

Frank, I thought that it was in a LOTO class that was supposed to be with a stock merc 525. I dont know the LOTO rules and maybe he was in a class that allows anything goes. Does anyone know?

he moaned last year when Lance ran the number saying his boat wasn't legal svl, blah blah blah

The physics are a lot more complex than that simple model that people use. The simple model (not physics) is based on fitting easily measurable factors (weight, hp, pitch, rpm) to a magic number (Crouch factor, named after the race boat designer who saw Fountain level success, mostly with stepped bottoms, from about 1905 to 1935). The equations behind these two models have zero resemblance to the actual physics, its just a simple equation with all the complex stuff clumped together in a factor that can vary widely.

These non-physics based models are useful for a given individual to tune one boat or perhaps a set of boats that are very similar, like the Extreme and Phantom boats.

But the Fountain boat is different, and so it's silly and ignorant to pretend that there should be no difference in results.

Perhaps the aerodynamics of the deck is sufficiently better. Looks that way to me. Aerodynamics are not in any way represented by those models.

Perhaps the second step is better. We all know that angle of attack makes a huge difference, yet that is another important factor not represented at all by these common models.

Perhaps the wider beam helps by reducing chine walk and therefore allows more stable lift and less steering therefore better propulsion and less drag. Again, zero factors for dynamic behavior in those simple models, but we all know how important these factors are.

Perhaps the wider beam makes the deck generate more lift with less drag. Again, important but not at all included in the simple models.

So before getting all twisted that observations (race speeds) don't match very simple models that don't in any way address factors we all know are important, and before using these inaccurate and imprecise models as evidence someone is cheating, perhaps we should all consider the possibility that Reggie came up with something that can clean up in the only V bottom class he has not dominated for decades.

I think the reason Reggie has been so dominant is because he takes a scientific, rather than religious, approach to boat performance. Instead of putting faith in flawed models as gospel truth, he runs lots and lots of experiments. Science is all about experiments, not faith.

I hesitate to comment but I believe there is an easy reason the boat ran in the 80's except for 1 run and no I don't think Reggie had anything to do with it unless he was reading the boat registration numbers.

Personally I think they got Taz and this boat confused at the start boat because later in the day they passed us the SVL info but Taz was on course.

People wonder why we get the information wrong a lot on TV and that's because we use what comes over the radio until we can get a visual on the boat. Sometimes the boat is half way down the course before we in the booth can see what it really is.

Makes us sound stupid but it is what it is with an all volunteer crew. Boat may have run 105, only those on board know for sure but I suspect it was a scoring error. If someone doubted it they could have had the boat inspected like Doc did last year. I'd guess with Teague and the other inspectors they would be albe to figure out if the boat wasn't stock.

Again I may be wrong but it has happend in prior years.

Von, That makes more sence to me than it went 105 with a stock 525.
Again was he running in a class that was supposed to have a stock 525? Maybe not and this whole post is $hit.
If he was in a 525 class and he was mixed up with another boat that ran 105 MPH wouldnt a normal person say to the official (I would like to take credit for 105 but we didnt do that and nor could we on our best day) Instead of we just got away with this one son.
Carcrash, I totally agree Reggie builds the fastest race boats in the world due to his relentless testing on the water. In your opinion do you think a single vee with a stock 525 can run the same speeds as a twin 35' Fountain?

F1 is single engine factory ie 500efi, 525, 500 carb so yes

It seems in the realm of possibility, but I think its clear that this case, and other cases, where the Fountain SVL was "clocked" at 100+ are suspect. Especially since the actual SVL racing seems very close.

A canopy boat could easily have fairly dramatically less aerodynamic drag than an open cockpit, and aero drag increases by the cube of velocity while water drag stays almost constant (because the lift and the drag both increase by the cube, so at higher speed far less bottom is in the water). So at these speeds, a little cleaner aero can result in a lot less drag. Combined with being half the weight (or certainly, a LOT less) than a production 35 footer, I'm not surprised that half the power gets the same speeds. All the SVLs are about the same speed as twin pleasure boats.

While the frontal area of the Extreme and Phantom boats is obviously less because they are about the same height but much narrower, its **possible** that the total drag is lower: the Fountain canopy looks closer to the ideal teardrop than the others. And again, the wide deck could cause more lift at less drag than the narrow boats. Since the water drag will be very similar (almost identical weights), but the aero drag **could** be less, its not a surprise to me that the Fountain is fast.

P.S. I may own a Fountain, but I curse Reggie from time to time, as I'm sure everyone who owns any boat curses the designer/builder from time to time. I'm not a "fan boy" but I appreciate his success, and I attribute the success to his relentless testing. I am sure Reggie's practice of test-test-test and test some more has permanently influenced the practices of many people around him.

WE talked to doc while we were in line to get our trophy at loto it did go 105 but he said that it was not a 525 race motor that they would race with .
That being said who knows what it really was but no funny business this was loto not a svl race they were going for speed and fun and he also said the correct 525 would be in the boat for the next race they went to hope this help a little and stops a little of the second third party info.
Also on one pass they were in front me as far as power i dont know but i do know they must have had a big wheel on it because it was very slow getting up to speed it was working hard to get some rpm.:ernaehrung004:

All well and good if so, however then they should have been registered under the M class and not the F class.

Von, I agree. The shame of it is that with a stock F motor he would have won any way and got his trophy. Once again the boat is thrusted in a cloud of contraversy with potential for people to say WTF. I know LOTO is for fun but handing people trophys and putting them in a record book without some type of inspection will only draw shallow people to get there name in the book. Its a shame the hard working teams dont have a chance against this kind of racer. With out a inspection LOTO shouldn't have a record book for this bracket. I predict the 105 MPH record will never be broke with a stock F motor.
The SVL class has only gone from 93 MPH to 95MPH in the last 10 years of testing all differant hulls,prop's,x dim,CG's and now in 1 year it is possable to get to 105 :bsflag:

Spot on!
 

Exactly!!!!!

Wil

Loto I always was told is for fun ONLY .I can,t imajine anyone taking one of those trophys too seriously anymore .
Its a charity event as has been said over and over .

Put a legal motor in the fountain and the " so called by some "( not up to par )" Phantom and Extremes will still keep up with it .
Don,t give up on that activator just yet , it can hold its own .I,ve seen that thing in big water that I dont know the fountain could handle .

As randy says ,This is just an opinion of course .
:drink:

So,,,,,what are the rules for SVL in LOTO? Isn't that really the question everyone is asking?

Lol there isnt any , pretty simple...question answered.

Then why was the Fountain so bent out of shape last year when Lance went 100 MPH with a 800 HP motor. Im pretty sure there are some class rules. Who knows how to find them?
Again last year I believe the Fountain went 94 MPH I believe. Thats after a year of dialing in and this year it picked up another 11 MPH. Thats a lot of gain.
What were the other pass speeds the Fountain made this year at LOTO or did he do just one run?

From what i heard they showed 108 on their GPS on the last run . They never did see that on radar....

Here's the web site and the list of winners by class.
http://www.lakeoftheozarksshootout.org/results.html

Looks like they have a class for every different configuration of boat.

Doc ran in class PV2F1 NOT SVL.

I looked but couldn't find any rules or explanation of the classes. So the mystery continues.

DIVISION(S):

P……..PROFESSIONAL
M…….MANUFACTURERS
N…….NON-PROFESSIONAL

HULL TYPES:

V……V-HULL BOATS
C……CATAMARAN AND TUNNEL HULL BOATS
VO….V-HULL OUTBOARDS
CO….CATAMARAN AND TUNNEL HULL BOATS W/OUTBOARDS
P……PONTOON
D……DECK BOATS
F……FACTORY BOATS
H……HYDROPLANES

LENGTHS:

1…… ………22' - 26'
2…… ………27' - 31'
3…… ………32' - 35'
4…… ………36' - 42'
5……………43' AND OVER

ENGINE CLASSIFICATIONS:

S - STOCK ENGINES (ANY PRODUCTION ENGINES WITHOUT MODIFICATION, 500 HP ENGINES ARE NOT STOCK)

F - FOR MODIFIED FACTORY ENGINES WITHOUT POWER (INCLUDES 525 SC STOCK, 500hp, 500efi, 525efi)

M - CUSTOM BUILT MODIFIED ENGINES WITHOUT POWER ADDED FEATURES

P - POWER ADDED FEATURES (i.e. BLOWERS, TURBOS, NITROS,etc.)

T - TURBINES

A - MERC 700's

Last digit = NUMBER OF ENGINES


EXAMPLE - PV3P4 is Professional division, V-HULL, 32' - 35', POWER ADDED W/4 ENGINES

My ONLY concern is anyone shows up at LOTO puts there boat in a stock 525 class and lay's down a 105 Radar and a 108 GPS run and the racing word says WTF. How? There is no way I am buying a SVL boat and racing against that,we dont have a chance. And that folks is how you kill a SVL class! So either the truth needs to be known and shared with the SVL guys or I cant imagine any SVL guy's wasting there time racing against a 105 MPH boat. Or the org's just bann the boat to save the rest of the class.

Gary said he spoke to Doc after the run and it wasnt his race motor, so with that said who knows what motor it was or really cares. When he comes to a race he will be inspected like any other SVL pretty simple. Easy enought to tell if he is running a 700hp motor....
Randy u r worried about this hurting the class but the more press u give it and the more questions u ask the worst u r making it. Pretty clear it wasnt a stock 525 so who cares how fast he ran it was just for fun. You whipped his ass in KW last yr and sure you can do it again. Remember last yr there was no drive height rule, now he has to be 1/2 below the bottom like he did in Mich City lets see what happens????

OK I will stick my head in the sand like an ostrage. But I must ask what SBI inspected in Mich. city on that boat. Was CID test done, was the manifold removed, was the cam checked,was the fly wheel checked,was the timing location checked and just how long did this inspection take. If it sounds like I am bringing more press to it the SVL racers need answers in order to feel comfortable to spend our money to compete on a level playing field.
And no I didnt kick his a$$ in KW. He beat me every race and spun out 2 times in one race and still came back and passed me. John let him get away with racing with an illeagal part which has now turned some teams away from racing in KW. The SVL fleet wants better inspections period. I will put my head back in the sand now.

I'm not sure exactly what Rich did that might be a good questionm to ask him. But i do know he checked his fly wheel ,compression check and measured his drive height. The drive height was high when they got there and Brain put spacers in to make legal drive height. The compression was no where near the max allowed , kinda hard to make big HP with no compression.

Randy never said put your head in the sand just said this isnt the place to do it not much going to get solved here. I am as concerned as everone else in the class , and have spoke to ppl about it that will make a differance, and voiced my concerns.

As far as John letting him get away with using illegal part, John didnt let him do anything. That was Doc's decision to use a illegal fly wheel. SBI found it and penalized him for it, might not be the penalty some ppl like but that's different then saying John let him use illegal part.

If anything, seems to me that all the other org and races he race that yr let him use illegal parts and no one stopped him or penilized him for it.

As far as some teams getting turned away from KW, I understand Pirate's decision for not racing SBI. What I dont get is that SBI was the first Org. to bust Doc and now they dont want to race SBI. What I find funny is Doc showed up in Biloxi P1 this yr with no inspection, no dyno everyone runs on the honor system and Prirate was ok racing with a team that cheated and he is pissed at, but they are upset with the Org that caught him in KW ????

In short all I'm saying is this isnt the place to hold court in a public forum, if u have concerns I think there is better ways to deal with it.

Its a shame that a team/person is "known" for crossing the line/cheating and others have to race against them.My conscience would be eating at me.

i disagree, the Pirate team has every right to be pissed. they got robbed a podium spot in KW. The Fountain should have lost their points for the first race as well. Or possibly DQ period. You gonna tell me politics didnt play a role in that decision?

OK, i have nothing to do woth SVL..BUT...who cares about a podium...well ok 200-500 bucks..yeah..other then that WHAT ?? did u ever trie to get a coffee at starbucks for your trophy ???

JUST RACE AND HAVE FUN !!!!!! what could i complain about ALL the time ??!!!

Like little *****es and nothing helps !:drink:

Politics in what way, what was the advantage ???
I just dont think they thought you could take point from the first race if they didnt get caught then, possible we should go back and take all there point for the yr, because i guess we could assume they ran the fly wheel all yr.

Bruce I agree and never said anything about that, just said this isnt the play for it and not hellping the class.

If every team that ever felt they got robbed didnt race there would be no teams left racing Lol.....

I dont see Pirate on here *****ing they are handling like gentlemen they know better and delt with it the proper way with SBI , I guess Randy is talking for them.

i agree, I'll play nice. There is still hope for the class.

Bruce,
That all i'm am saying we need to try and look to the futhure and keep going if we can . I understand excactly how they feel and respect it been there plenty of time myself, we all have.... we dont live in a perfect world.