We Need Some Input From Long Time Racers
12-14-2003, 02:03 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 2,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We Need Some Input From Long Time Racers
To the guys who have been around for awhile...what can we do.....We had a total of 20 F1 boats race this year in one organization or another....of them, 2 were sold and at least 6 are up for sale that did'nt race this year and one more is being built for 2004....I don't agree with the class is dead or we would'nt have had 20 F1's race this year....its just that we are racing in 4 different organizations thats keeping the boat count down....
1. Is it because the cost to run a team is to high?
2. Is it the entry fee's are to high?
3. Would it help if every team that shows up should get paid something?
4. If we went out and got a F1 sponsor to pay for our entry fee's for the year bring out more boats?
5. Is it because some teamsjust don't like some of the organizations?
6. Is it because the F1 teams don't have the big budgets like the big boys do and its harder for the F1's to travel around the country?
7. Would the manufactures help out alittle if every F1 team named their boat with the manufactures name after the race name like Nascar..ie..Team Screamin Eagle/ Warlock....are times that tough that a manufacture would not give a team alittle money for a return to have their company mentioned in newspapers,magazines and TV coverage?
8. If a team has to travel over 700 miles their entry fee is cut in half?
9. Or should all the F1 teams agree to at least race with one organization for a year to show it can bring 18+ F1 boats to each race.
Just woundering if this is all a wast of time and money and we should all just move up in class or get out of racing...
Alittle input would help...even from OSS, LLC, OPA, GLSCS, manufactures or even promoters....
Gino
1. Is it because the cost to run a team is to high?
2. Is it the entry fee's are to high?
3. Would it help if every team that shows up should get paid something?
4. If we went out and got a F1 sponsor to pay for our entry fee's for the year bring out more boats?
5. Is it because some teamsjust don't like some of the organizations?
6. Is it because the F1 teams don't have the big budgets like the big boys do and its harder for the F1's to travel around the country?
7. Would the manufactures help out alittle if every F1 team named their boat with the manufactures name after the race name like Nascar..ie..Team Screamin Eagle/ Warlock....are times that tough that a manufacture would not give a team alittle money for a return to have their company mentioned in newspapers,magazines and TV coverage?
8. If a team has to travel over 700 miles their entry fee is cut in half?
9. Or should all the F1 teams agree to at least race with one organization for a year to show it can bring 18+ F1 boats to each race.
Just woundering if this is all a wast of time and money and we should all just move up in class or get out of racing...
Alittle input would help...even from OSS, LLC, OPA, GLSCS, manufactures or even promoters....
Gino
Last edited by MANITIE; 12-14-2003 at 02:06 PM.
12-14-2003, 04:51 PM
#2
Enjoy the show
VIP Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Joisey Shore
Posts: 10,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gino, great questions. I'll enjoy reading the answers.
You should try to organize the F1 boats so you all attend the same events as a group. However, some guys might like to race at other events so they stand a chance of winning a race or two. You guys were really tough to beat this year.
You should try to organize the F1 boats so you all attend the same events as a group. However, some guys might like to race at other events so they stand a chance of winning a race or two. You guys were really tough to beat this year.
12-14-2003, 08:52 PM
#3
Registered
gino,
as you know i have raced f1 for many years and went to f2. i was over the year untill this year one of the largest supporters for factory class. 4 years ago everbody wanted to go to canopy's and i said no and had a lot of people and money behind me.
the plane truth is gino, that before the daytona race this year f2 had 15 - 18 boats and f1 was just about the same. when jack stoerrle passed away in daytona it hit to close to home for a lot of people. nobody will truly know but if he was in a canopy he may have survived. the last couple of years prior when factory racers passed away at the race sites it was on the west coast so in my opinion we here on the east coast did not feel the full effect.
when jack passed this year it also hit harder because he was a seasoned racer and a world champion. super v and super v light is basically the same as f1 and f2. next year we should have very large and competitive classes. actually that was in the plans for the future. it may of happened a little sooner then we liked but the truth is it is safer and does not cost much more. and now thats were the competition is.
anyway our lives are not worth a plastic trophy and a couple thousand dollars. even after jacks mishap, there were many accidents during the season that were lucky enough not to be major deals, but you know how fast and quickly it can happen.
i have done the research myself and believe it or not until jacks mishap the deaths in canopy's were the same as open boats. the diffrence is today we have a lot more technology in the canopy's and now are truly safer but not full proof. we have a long way to go on safety and rules for the canopy's but that's another story.
anyway if we get the couple of f2 guy's left to move to super v and the few guy's left from f1 that have not already gone to super v light to make the move we will delete two classes and make others stronger. with less classes and a bigger boat count we can do nothing then to benefit from it. the larger the class, the larger the purse prize, the more TV and media attention we get, and last but not least the more sponsors and fans we can attract.
in the year 2000 when f2 was just a hair under 30 boats i received more air time that year plus a lot of other f2 boats then any other class. f2 class that year had even more TV time then the super cats because we were the largest and most competitive class running that year. f1 also received a ton of tv time because they were the second biggest class. i believe a hair under 20 boats per race.
so anyway that's my opinion and in the long run i believe it will be the best for all of us.
Treadwell
Treadwell
as you know i have raced f1 for many years and went to f2. i was over the year untill this year one of the largest supporters for factory class. 4 years ago everbody wanted to go to canopy's and i said no and had a lot of people and money behind me.
the plane truth is gino, that before the daytona race this year f2 had 15 - 18 boats and f1 was just about the same. when jack stoerrle passed away in daytona it hit to close to home for a lot of people. nobody will truly know but if he was in a canopy he may have survived. the last couple of years prior when factory racers passed away at the race sites it was on the west coast so in my opinion we here on the east coast did not feel the full effect.
when jack passed this year it also hit harder because he was a seasoned racer and a world champion. super v and super v light is basically the same as f1 and f2. next year we should have very large and competitive classes. actually that was in the plans for the future. it may of happened a little sooner then we liked but the truth is it is safer and does not cost much more. and now thats were the competition is.
anyway our lives are not worth a plastic trophy and a couple thousand dollars. even after jacks mishap, there were many accidents during the season that were lucky enough not to be major deals, but you know how fast and quickly it can happen.
i have done the research myself and believe it or not until jacks mishap the deaths in canopy's were the same as open boats. the diffrence is today we have a lot more technology in the canopy's and now are truly safer but not full proof. we have a long way to go on safety and rules for the canopy's but that's another story.
anyway if we get the couple of f2 guy's left to move to super v and the few guy's left from f1 that have not already gone to super v light to make the move we will delete two classes and make others stronger. with less classes and a bigger boat count we can do nothing then to benefit from it. the larger the class, the larger the purse prize, the more TV and media attention we get, and last but not least the more sponsors and fans we can attract.
in the year 2000 when f2 was just a hair under 30 boats i received more air time that year plus a lot of other f2 boats then any other class. f2 class that year had even more TV time then the super cats because we were the largest and most competitive class running that year. f1 also received a ton of tv time because they were the second biggest class. i believe a hair under 20 boats per race.
so anyway that's my opinion and in the long run i believe it will be the best for all of us.
Treadwell
Treadwell
Last edited by Treadwellmotorsports; 12-14-2003 at 09:16 PM.
12-14-2003, 11:04 PM
#4
Enjoy the show
VIP Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Joisey Shore
Posts: 10,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I firmly believe the only reason I'm still here today is because our race boat had a canopy.
Racing is dangerous. Give yourself a chance to survive a crash and race under a lid.
Racing is dangerous. Give yourself a chance to survive a crash and race under a lid.
12-15-2003, 09:42 AM
#7
Gold Member
Gold MemberJoin Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jack's Formula, like mine, had just been repowered with the 525's. We had just completed a lot of testing at Lake-X, and the boat was FLYING! In retrospect, it was maybe a little TOO fast for the courses we are running these days.
After Jack's accident, my partner, Carl Saitta, and I decided that as fathers and husbands we just couldn't continue to run in F-2 as it was presently being done. Either the courses needed to change or the speeds had to go down or we had to run with canopies. To deny that we had somehow crossed over the line of what these boats can safely do is just burying your head in the sand. Jack was my friend and he died twenty feet behind me in the exact same boat as mine doing the exact same thing as me. That gets your attention in a hurry.
Eric's point is well taken. Let's move over to Super-V or Super-V Light. This will be only marginally more expensive for us as racers, but a helluva lot safer AND will reduce classes all in one shot. Factory racing with open cockpits was a great idea, but the boats are simply too fast with the new engine packages.
For what its worth, this is just my two cents!
Tom Caruso
Owner/Throttles
F2-32
Total Marine Racing/Sirius
38' Formula FASTech
After Jack's accident, my partner, Carl Saitta, and I decided that as fathers and husbands we just couldn't continue to run in F-2 as it was presently being done. Either the courses needed to change or the speeds had to go down or we had to run with canopies. To deny that we had somehow crossed over the line of what these boats can safely do is just burying your head in the sand. Jack was my friend and he died twenty feet behind me in the exact same boat as mine doing the exact same thing as me. That gets your attention in a hurry.
Eric's point is well taken. Let's move over to Super-V or Super-V Light. This will be only marginally more expensive for us as racers, but a helluva lot safer AND will reduce classes all in one shot. Factory racing with open cockpits was a great idea, but the boats are simply too fast with the new engine packages.
For what its worth, this is just my two cents!
Tom Caruso
Owner/Throttles
F2-32
Total Marine Racing/Sirius
38' Formula FASTech
12-15-2003, 09:57 AM
#8
Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 2,825
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eric and Tom,
Thanks for the input....My only thought is most F1 teams or guys thinking of getting into racing can't afford the big money it takes to get into a SV or a SVL...if the boats where slowed down with a 496 and the F1 speeds were 73 to 76 mph and F2 was around 84 to 85 would that help.....I will agree at 81-82 in a F1 was hairey this year..personally I like that but I agree its unsafe....but with a 496 the cost could be $50,000 to $60,000 to buy a new F1 half of that right now is just for a hp525.....I know Fomula has been trying to put in a class with 496's and if it happens I'm even thinking of running in it.....Eric I see were your going and it makes alot of sence....but would it help Offshore racing if their was a class you can get into for under $60,000 before moving up to a $120,000 SVL or $230,000 for a SV.....what do you think?
Gino
Thanks for the input....My only thought is most F1 teams or guys thinking of getting into racing can't afford the big money it takes to get into a SV or a SVL...if the boats where slowed down with a 496 and the F1 speeds were 73 to 76 mph and F2 was around 84 to 85 would that help.....I will agree at 81-82 in a F1 was hairey this year..personally I like that but I agree its unsafe....but with a 496 the cost could be $50,000 to $60,000 to buy a new F1 half of that right now is just for a hp525.....I know Fomula has been trying to put in a class with 496's and if it happens I'm even thinking of running in it.....Eric I see were your going and it makes alot of sence....but would it help Offshore racing if their was a class you can get into for under $60,000 before moving up to a $120,000 SVL or $230,000 for a SV.....what do you think?
Gino
Last edited by MANITIE; 12-15-2003 at 10:04 AM.
12-15-2003, 10:11 AM
#9
Gold Member
Gold MemberJoin Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norwalk, CT
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gino:
While I agree that Factory racing would be a lot safer at the slower speeds that the 496 package would bring and that the entry costs would be a lot less, I'm just not convinced that the 496 package would live under race conditions. I just don't think it will survive operating upwards of 5000 rpm for an hour at a time. On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing, bring back reliability into the equation: do you run the boat balls out to get in front, or do you try and conserve to make it last to the finish?
Bottom line is this: open cockpit boats on twisty courses should NOT be run at the speeds we are currently running them. We need to either: 1). slow the boats down; 2). make the courses longer and with fewer turns; or 3). mandate canopies.
The sport needs to be as safe as possible, not as inexpensive as possible.
Again, I don't have all the answers but I think its guys like you that can start dialogues like this that will result in meaningful changes to our sport.
Tom
While I agree that Factory racing would be a lot safer at the slower speeds that the 496 package would bring and that the entry costs would be a lot less, I'm just not convinced that the 496 package would live under race conditions. I just don't think it will survive operating upwards of 5000 rpm for an hour at a time. On the other hand, maybe that's a good thing, bring back reliability into the equation: do you run the boat balls out to get in front, or do you try and conserve to make it last to the finish?
Bottom line is this: open cockpit boats on twisty courses should NOT be run at the speeds we are currently running them. We need to either: 1). slow the boats down; 2). make the courses longer and with fewer turns; or 3). mandate canopies.
The sport needs to be as safe as possible, not as inexpensive as possible.
Again, I don't have all the answers but I think its guys like you that can start dialogues like this that will result in meaningful changes to our sport.
Tom
