D, i agree with a lot of your points...i think you can get both...as you know SX and MX pay the bills(sponsors/fans)...

"big seas, man and machine battling competition as well as the elements"....this is how i grew up looking at offshore racing....now it seems we are trying to make it so the average joe can set his beer down and go race offshore boats....O,,,and NOT have to lie to his wife, convincing her it's perfectly safe out there!

Well when I read the prologue to the new rules I really was suprised to see the concept of "exchanging paint" as a part of the show. These boats are expensive, they are not insured, and I think that racing at those speeds in close proximity is very dangerous. Especially if someone is to get ejected in a turn and have another boat very close.

I think that longer courses, close to the beach, with high speeds are great. I have no problem with running faster than what is being run now.

D...more good points:"These boats are expensive, they are not insured"...and there is no money in winning!

how about looking to the manufacture to step up to the plate when it comes to safety...DONZI did..how about requiring the manufacture to build F boats the will pass a series of crash, impact, and stuff tests. put the "homologation fee" to some good use!!? there is no reason that an open cockpit boat could not utilize a restraining system in conjunction with a 1/4 canopy...sitting down in the case of the DONZI using 2 1/4 canopies...or standing up in the formula's case using 1 very large 1/4 canopy...drivers head well supported. NONE of this standing there with 1/2 of your body exposed trying to hold on to a thin piece of aluminum. in your old 100 dollar helmet! only to get tossed out and have the boat fall apart crap!

making the boats better; closed or open is not of concern...slowing them down so they DON'T have to be safe, collecting "homologation" fees and trying to get more manufactures money IS!!!!

NEED proof: ever see some of these boats after a crash....blown apart...seats broken, folded back, missing...helmets blown off, jackets floating in the water without the racer in them! How about race boats on the bottom with salvage companies swarming like vultures...if racing mandated anti-sink devices the cost would come down, and the technology would improve rapidly...down the road it would become a standard in a pleasure boat! RACING pushes technology to the next level that will inevitably show up at the consumer level down the road...how fast it can be sold there is what should be looked at....as i type this here at Ford Development we are years ahead of what the market will bare...In offshore the consumer/pleasure boat has more technology than the ones racing...why is that???

i would like to see open/F class racing get faster, closer, AND safer...and I KNOW it can be done with out slowing them down!

Canopied boats are the best solution to safely racing these boats at the speeds we are talking about.

Joey: you want to go faster in an open cockpit boat. You want money to be invested in improving the technology in these boats to make them faster and safer. That is a noble goal for sure. Now, go develop a written business plan, invest your own money and time, and secure the necessary capital and sponsorship from third parties to make it a reality.

I know I cannot do it. I know of no one else who can do it and I know of no one else who is out there trying. So, grab the bull by the horns and make it happen.

You do a great job of challenging us and ascribing some pretty questionable motives to us. We deny it and explain ourselves and it does not move you an inch. So rather than engaging in this back and forth anymore, I simply challenge you to do this for the rest of the racers out there.

Mike

Mike

Joey,
I have a lot of respect for you both as a friend and as a racer, but some of these last posts are, in my opinion, way off base.

"as you slow these 35+ foot boats down to 80ish...a skilled racer will be beyond the capabilities of the boat. this will also bring less skilled people right to the front."

By simply slowing the top speed of a group of boats down, rookie racers with no experience or skills will suddenly shoot to the front of the pack with the best of the best? C'mon dude, that's way too far of a stretch and you know it. Remember, there are still a lot of factors in the equation, such as prop selection, (testing) setup, (testing) and balance, (testing). Just a hint, but props, setup and balance are still very important parts of a winning team that are usually refined through testing. Something you know just a little bit about. Fact is, some racers will always be better than the equipment no matter how good it is, and some will always be middle of the pack racers even with the best equipment. In the end, they all love the competition.
As for physical condition, I guess an overweight out of shape slob is always going to be more prone to injury of all kinds in any physically demanding sport. But if you want to start citing theory of mass vs inertia vs deceleration vs g-force vs energy absorption, think of this...
Muscle weighs more than fat, so which is more likely to "tend to stay in motion" upon impact? Are you insinuating that all motorsports sanctioning bodies take responsibility and liability for the % of body fat to muscle ratio for each person in a boat, car or monster truck? Now we're reeeeally stretching.
As for manufacturers stepping up to the plate and making boats better and safer, you're right. Donzi did, as well as Formula, Fountain, Cigarette and many of the other manufacturers involved in racing today. Thanks to racing, boats are stronger and safer than they were 10 years ago. Even 5 years ago. Not just for racers, but for the recreational boating public as a whole.
You made the statement;
"put the "homologation fee" to some good use!"
What exactly do you think those fees goes? let me guess, you think it goes right into Mike A.'s pocket, right?...
I think you need to talk with Drew Corn to get a clue as to what those fees are spent on, and how that money is already way to short to do the job it really needs to be doing.
You also made the statement;
"there is no reason that an open cockpit boat could not utilize a restraining system in conjunction with a 1/4 canopy"
Now if you can prove to me exactly how this would be safer on WATER, I'm all ears. Or, if you can find a way for everyone to race with a mandatory 1/4 canopy and race on full time air, I'm in. By the way, are you going to convince all the manufacturers to re-tool and pay for all these air systems and canopy changes?
Wait, I assume this sarcastic statement means you expect APBA to pay for it...
"making the boats better; closed or open is not of concern...slowing them down so they DON'T have to be safe, collecting "homologation" fees and trying to get more manufactures money IS!!!!"
This one flat pisses me off.
WTF are you insinuating here? That APBA has no concern for making boats safer?
Here's a news flash for ya Joey,
APBA doesn't build boats.
They DO however, require specific safety equipment ON the boats, IN the boats and ON the race crew at all times.
There is always new safety equipment coming out. New safety items to be tested. New safety features being tested by various manufacturers and vendors. Maybe you should talk with Pops, Buddy, Clay and the rest of the STARS team. I've seen their eyes when someone is lost, or even injured. They are the best in the business. If you have better safety ideas, I'm sure they wold be all ears also.
I guess progress is never fast enough when it comes to safety. So, Sounds to me like you need to start building your own boats, design your own open cockpit safety system, create your own governing agency for marine safety and crash investigation, and open a gym for racers.

Mike how much would it cost a racing association to insure the use quality safety products??? require race boats to have a min spec???...you sure can drop the hammer on the racers to the tune of 5K for a "professional" membership....manufactures for homologation!...why not drop the hammer and say no seats that will FOLD back during a crash. Not approved for racing!...jackets and helmets that are blown off from a crash,,,,NOT approved for racing!. Funny how the average joe has gone out there thinking his pleasure boat was a "Factory Race Boat"...only to have it blown apart structurally! hatches and other parts flying off! not knowing that the boat in front were purpose built race boats having WAY more structural integrity...hell, pay the homologation fee and it's a race boat!!! How about someone checking for a WORKING intercom...How safe is it having one guy controlling the gas and the other trying to steer if something goes wrong?

Mike you are right, back and forth we go!...maybe because what you say and what you put in writing are different...you keep talking of "long term" business plans....i have yet to see one executed!! mid season; rule changes, scheduling changes, officer changes...it's not only a revolving door internal the organization....but, also it's NO WONDER why there is a revolving door in the racer line as well.

we are the racers you are the organizer...it's your job to get us there!...maybe even stay for a few years??...obviously this is a problem for you....the current state of this motorsport reflects it! maybe it's just offshore racing?

Joey,
I think Mike is right...this post started and has some great info.about us racing in 2004 and what we can do....and most of all who will be racing....I know safty has been brought up but we will be racing in 3 months talking about the manufactures doing crashed tests.....it comes down to this, the racers have an opertunitty to make their own rules and as member if you have 7 F2 boats that become members and 6 of them want 496's and one dose not....thats it, the one can either race what has been agreed to or not.....we all said we want input and the racers should be heard.....this is what happends we start talking about crash teast and body wieght....next thing will be air bags...I'm not trying to be a smart ass....its we are so far off the discusion from talking about some different rules to this....can the teams that going to race F1 or F2 discuss for 1. who is going to race with APBA for 2004 and 2. what way would you race between the cirrent rules and the 496 pack...
That would be a great start......
Gino

"WTF are you insinuating here? That APBA has no concern for making boats safer?"...it's all about being reactive...not proactive...it wasn't till someone came out of the boat with out killing the engine did they start making random tether checks right!...someone died in F2 racing...now they are too fast!...APBA checks your helmet (NOT FIT)...tow lines, kill switches that work, life jackets...O, yeah non skid stuff...what are they checking in my F2 boat to make sure it's safe for RACING???nothing my fishing boat doesn't have! again,,,they have GREAT REACTIVE safety support! those divers are on you like white on rice!!!...doesn't do much good when they get there to find your jacket and helmet off does it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gino....i don't think racers should make rules....nor manufactures...maybe if they didn't change them all the time (even during the year!) more racers/manufactures would want to come out and play!!!! just tell me what it is going to be for a few years!!! **** every year they have a new long term plan!

Joey,
When APBA did that some of the F1 teams complaind they will go elsewere if they were not heard.....a few of us asked if APBA would help us....the teams that were not going to race somewere else....thats when Mike and Steve offered to help.....the point I'm trying to make is do you know how many teams are racing F2 for 2004.....if you don't thats a problem if your racing F2 next year becasue how can you get sponsors if their are no other F2's....the point is if for some reason their are F2 teams that will race and agree on different rules..such as the ones posted and it brings out 7 F2's thats a good thing....
The attitude Jo N. took is what we need....he spoke on what he thought was good.....but he finished with I will support the class and race what they agree on.....thats what we need...we have our say and others and at the end of the day we do what is best for the class and support it....if you completly disagree then that person has the right not to race.....but its the teams that overall are going to support the class are the ones who are going to make this work.....thats all I'm saying...
Gino