Future of Factory Class
12-24-2003 | 02:46 PM
#142
VIP Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
From: Florida
Does anyone out there feel that the ever changing engines over the last 4 years has anything to do with the decline of racers? 1st its the HP500 Carb, then the 500 EFI, then the 525 and the Vortec. IMO, this has been detrimental to the average racer who does not have the overflowing wallets. As much as I feel that slowing down the boats is ok, I have to admit, this new engine just sounds like a rerun of the past few years. Why don't we just keep the 500's, lower the X and possibly limit props etc? Slower speeds and a cheaper mod. Also, 500's are still available from Merc.
12-24-2003 | 04:02 PM
#143
Guest
Posts: n/a
Bruce,
The 496HO is fundamentally different from the other changes. First with the others we were always increasing speeds and costs to the racers. Here we are decreasing both.
Second, the we know the 496HO will be around for at least three years and currently is a mainstream product offering. The 500 is NOT being built as it once was and Mercury Racing wants to phase it out. The appeal of that engine is gone from a consumer standpoint and most now agree that to reinvigorate the class with racers and builders we need to slow down, lower the costs and use a package that more people can relate to.
Remember now too that according to Steve and Al most should be able to make the switch at zero cost or actually on the plus side once they sell their old stuff.
There needs to be some agreement on prop limitations and drive allowances but it seems the guys are getting closer.
Mike
The 496HO is fundamentally different from the other changes. First with the others we were always increasing speeds and costs to the racers. Here we are decreasing both.
Second, the we know the 496HO will be around for at least three years and currently is a mainstream product offering. The 500 is NOT being built as it once was and Mercury Racing wants to phase it out. The appeal of that engine is gone from a consumer standpoint and most now agree that to reinvigorate the class with racers and builders we need to slow down, lower the costs and use a package that more people can relate to.
Remember now too that according to Steve and Al most should be able to make the switch at zero cost or actually on the plus side once they sell their old stuff.
There needs to be some agreement on prop limitations and drive allowances but it seems the guys are getting closer.
Mike
12-24-2003 | 04:11 PM
#144
Guest
Posts: n/a
Jo,
We actually had an F2 wreck in Orange Beach on a straightaway I think.
The longer courses are boring to everyone and commercially have very little appeal.
The shorter courses, while posing some unique challenges are only as dangerous as the teams running the boats make them.
Most of us know when our boats are on the edge or should know.
When we crashed twice in a row in 1999 we were running a new boat. Problem was we were running it like our old boat which cornered much better. The new boat gave us all kinds of warning signs too and we ignored them. Fact is we pushed too hard and turned too hard and wrecked.
Concentrating on cockpit improvements and using better judgment when turning these beasts are essential to improving safety. We also made many turns soft (90+ degree) which helped this season.
But the boats are going too fast from where the classes were designed to run originally. My guess is that the 496HO packages will ultimately push the boats as fast as we were running in 1997 and 1998. And as I said if you ask any of us who were running then we can tell you the boats were plenty fast and the racing plenty fun.
Mike
We actually had an F2 wreck in Orange Beach on a straightaway I think.
The longer courses are boring to everyone and commercially have very little appeal.
The shorter courses, while posing some unique challenges are only as dangerous as the teams running the boats make them.
Most of us know when our boats are on the edge or should know.
When we crashed twice in a row in 1999 we were running a new boat. Problem was we were running it like our old boat which cornered much better. The new boat gave us all kinds of warning signs too and we ignored them. Fact is we pushed too hard and turned too hard and wrecked.
Concentrating on cockpit improvements and using better judgment when turning these beasts are essential to improving safety. We also made many turns soft (90+ degree) which helped this season.
But the boats are going too fast from where the classes were designed to run originally. My guess is that the 496HO packages will ultimately push the boats as fast as we were running in 1997 and 1998. And as I said if you ask any of us who were running then we can tell you the boats were plenty fast and the racing plenty fun.
Mike
12-24-2003 | 06:18 PM
#145
Registered
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,306
Likes: 1
From: Lake Lanier - N. Georgia
Our sport needs a home!
Rum Runner:
What we really need in our sport is a stadium style location that would be privatized. Just imagine a location that was privately owned where the dry / wet pits / race course could all be together. Basically a St Pete type scenario located in some deserted area. We buy the land , develop it and have a race there 2-3 times a year. I'm sure car racing fans many years ago were saying "where is Talledega , Alabama" ? OSO is 14,000 members strong. Just think if we could find a location and let the OSO Members have a stake in it. We have bankers , developers , paving contractors , boat dock manufacturers , etc on here. We would own the land develop it and the fans / racers would have a place to call home! This is my dream OSO Brothers! Man I can see the bleachers packed , the PA System blaring and the campers and motorhomes packed in like sardines in a tin can! BH
What we really need in our sport is a stadium style location that would be privatized. Just imagine a location that was privately owned where the dry / wet pits / race course could all be together. Basically a St Pete type scenario located in some deserted area. We buy the land , develop it and have a race there 2-3 times a year. I'm sure car racing fans many years ago were saying "where is Talledega , Alabama" ? OSO is 14,000 members strong. Just think if we could find a location and let the OSO Members have a stake in it. We have bankers , developers , paving contractors , boat dock manufacturers , etc on here. We would own the land develop it and the fans / racers would have a place to call home! This is my dream OSO Brothers! Man I can see the bleachers packed , the PA System blaring and the campers and motorhomes packed in like sardines in a tin can! BH
12-24-2003 | 07:44 PM
#148
Registered
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,306
Likes: 1
From: Lake Lanier - N. Georgia
I'm not thinking an island - not reasonable. Way out place like Grand Isle , Louisana - " Home of Offshore Racing " Man I want campers everywhere , fans getting sprayed when the boats go by - Bleachers lining the shore and vendors selling everything under the sun that pertains to boating. And of course a huge OFFSHOREONLY.com sign hanging proudly! BH
12-25-2003 | 07:16 AM
#149
Registered
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 0
From: Michigan
"You might feel like 80mph is DAMN boring...if that's the case, you should be able to go out and put a major case of whoop on people"
not the case at all...as you slow these 35+ foot boats down to 80ish...a skilled racer will be beyond the capabilities of the boat. this will also bring less skilled people right to the front. i am ALL for rubbing rails...but there is simply not enough money in this hobby motorsport to allow for more crashing and sinking. personally i like forms of racing where the machinery is always better than the racer...that in my book is racing...maybe paying 10 bucks to ride around bumping wheels with your buddies on the local go kart track is tight racing to you/others??
NOT too many professional motorsports that i know of where you can buy the most powerful, hi-tech, ultra competitive racing machine out there, and race it the same day!!!...no schools, no moving up through the ranks with a SYSTEM.
funny there is SO MANY people that keep looking at the equipment as where we need to increase safety...why not look at the RACER!!??...how much safer do you think a racer would be if he was physically fit!...could tread fresh water for a 1/2 hour. hold his breath for some time...how do they respond to G forces(CRASHING)...10lbs over weight max or have a low body fat. basically an ATHLETE!...your not going to see a 250lb out of shape 50 year old on a MX bike now will you!?....but you can in a offshore race boat now can't you?....in the offshore scenario it really dosn't matter until you CRASH!
so why is it we keep looking at the BOATS and not the racers in them for added safety solutions??? my opinion would be offshore racing is not going to turn away anyones money! too old and busted? too fat? no skills? you say no racing experience?..no boating experience either!!??? got money??..WELL,, then come on down and lets get ya into professional offshore racing...today!!!
not the case at all...as you slow these 35+ foot boats down to 80ish...a skilled racer will be beyond the capabilities of the boat. this will also bring less skilled people right to the front. i am ALL for rubbing rails...but there is simply not enough money in this hobby motorsport to allow for more crashing and sinking. personally i like forms of racing where the machinery is always better than the racer...that in my book is racing...maybe paying 10 bucks to ride around bumping wheels with your buddies on the local go kart track is tight racing to you/others??
NOT too many professional motorsports that i know of where you can buy the most powerful, hi-tech, ultra competitive racing machine out there, and race it the same day!!!...no schools, no moving up through the ranks with a SYSTEM.
funny there is SO MANY people that keep looking at the equipment as where we need to increase safety...why not look at the RACER!!??...how much safer do you think a racer would be if he was physically fit!...could tread fresh water for a 1/2 hour. hold his breath for some time...how do they respond to G forces(CRASHING)...10lbs over weight max or have a low body fat. basically an ATHLETE!...your not going to see a 250lb out of shape 50 year old on a MX bike now will you!?....but you can in a offshore race boat now can't you?....in the offshore scenario it really dosn't matter until you CRASH!
so why is it we keep looking at the BOATS and not the racers in them for added safety solutions??? my opinion would be offshore racing is not going to turn away anyones money! too old and busted? too fat? no skills? you say no racing experience?..no boating experience either!!??? got money??..WELL,, then come on down and lets get ya into professional offshore racing...today!!!
Last edited by audacity; 12-25-2003 at 07:45 AM.
12-25-2003 | 08:41 AM
#150
Registered
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,697
Likes: 1
From: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
This is almost like the divergence that happened to motocross. Some wanted stadium style courses that were more spectator friendly and others preferred to stay with the soul of the sport and ride natural terrain. Likewise my image of "Offshore" racing has always been open water, big seas, man and machine battling competition as well as the elements. I would not be interested in a lake or bay style permanent facility. I really think that some of the ideas of long distance races such as Jacksonville to Miami are the stuff. Lets race offshore!!
