Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Qballs reading was about 71 and Augie was 81. Where do you guys get these numbers.

As you know, we tried it like we did to capture average lap speeds. This was clearly explained at the drivers meetings.

It will be done differently for A/C. Units installed at the pits and the team will see the results, or should everyone see the results? WHAT DO YOU WANT?

However, you can't argue the GPS readings, do we agree on that point? Also the time for any issue to be raised is within one hour after the race/awards while everyone is present and available.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

In my opinion, it should be posted for all to see.

Just like in the old days..... :drink:

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

I agree... and should be posted on the trailer after the race.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

I was told I broke out, and went from 2nd to 3rd place. I know my boat is not that fast but OK ! What I would like to Know is how I finished a lap and a half behind the first place boat that looked to be running P3 speeds in P4! I was laped about half way thru the race and we ran hard all day with the third place boat never more than half a mile behind us! Posting all speeds and times may help me understand! Ron Steelin Time.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Ah, I love those sheets that SBI produces. They use an old software package that we've never had. If anyone has a copy, I'd like to see exactly how it works.

APBA looks to use a stop watch to calculate overall average speed. The SBI software will do it on a lap by lap basis, yet they also use GPS.

So looks like everyone whould like to see all the GPS readouts? And the team would see it when it opens to verify the reading. Is that right?

Do we also agree that no one can argue what the GPS reads? Otherwise, why have them?

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

well i missed alot because i wasnt on for a couple hours but since i came back alot was discussed... i am not goin to back track but ron has a point in everything he is saying..basically its was the first time using this system, obviuosly the bugs need to be worked out and will only be done by constructive criticism by us the racers...no reason to be all pissed off and ****...like i said first time..now yes apba has a good system without any complaints(yet i really dont know first hand never raced with apba )but have heard nothing but good about it...can someone tell me if they were ever at apba's first race where they used this new gps system cause i can almost garuntee (spelt wrong) that there were some bugs that needed to be worked out so all i am saying is that it can only get better...if u want to race with opa then tough it out and see what happens, thats what we plan on doin'....and as for the case thing the reason that the gps's were not in cases like we were told they would be is because they realized one small problem on the turn boat when they were passing them out...it takes a good two to three minutes at least to put the gps's in the cases very tight fit...now when u have 25-30 race boats lined up circling a boat with 3-4' seas is not an easy task to complete..u may ask y dont they have the units in the cases before hand..well thats because they all have a serial no. on the front of them and u dont know which one goes to which boat if they are in the cases and cant see the no. another small imperfection that needs to be worked out...ok once again just my input sorry if i am wrong but everyone voices their opinion so i did the same...thanx for listening and as far as i am concerened i voiced all my issues with this topic and i am sure they will be saught after and dealt with if possible..well see in ac...see u on the 17th 3 weeks will be here soon so be ready!
Stroker

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

I understand this boat was spotted doing 69.69 mph... :eek:

Just enough to meet P-5 Rules! :snide:

Oh wait! It was spotted on the trailer on I-95.... :D :D :D

I hope to see it ready for AC..... :drink:

Good Luck with it..... :cool:

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Guys I am not trying to piss anyone off but come on,you have F1 boats running in P5,Wrong class,you have 650 and 700 HP powered 28 foot boats running in P5 wrong class,you have twin 750 plus HP boats running in P4,wrong class,You have a tripple 1300 HP 47 Apache running in P2,wrong class.If the powers that be,like Kirt,Eddie and Augie dont relieze that there system is not fair and not set up properly than I do not know what to say.But when the shoe was on the other foot in I do beleive in 1989 in Marathon when we were running a tripple engine 32 skater against Kurt in his 32 foot Hydra tech with Jack D and he was complainig that the power to weight ratio was not fair seems to go out the window especially when the man himself is running a boat that that is in the wrong class,I guess what I am trying to say is if you have a legal P5,.P4,P3,P2.P1 Boat run it in its propor class and you wont have these problems,what about the guy that has a true P5 boat and knows he has to go up against a big HP 28 Foot Pantera,he already knows he will get his ASS stomped and if any one does not agree with me let me know ,I have been involved with the sport for 25 years and like would nothing to see it become bigger than it is but as usual I dont think it will ever happen because of the reasons I HAVE POSTED ABOVE.If you ever want this sport to grow you first have to start with a equal playing ground meanig equal cubic inches,equal length and weight and people not sand bagging it with there current boats so they can get a checkered flag and they all know who they are and I do not have to mention who theynare because it is pretty obvious.I guess what I am trying to say is make it fair and more people will show.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Hyper1, As I stated in another post, in which you elected not to respond. You're way off on the HP and potential speeds of some of these boats. (including mine) The only issue i see right now is that 24s can't compete against 28s in snotty water. Do you think 28s can compete against 38s in the rough? I dont think so. I have seen a 24 compete and beat 28s in the rough. "Mission Impossible" . I dont plan on bumping up to P-4 anytime soon and I'll do everything possible to prove that my boat doesn't break 70. If it does, I'll be penalized. Once again, your welcome to come for a ride and see how fast it really is.
I dont care if you put 800 hp in the 24s and they run 90 in good water. They will always have a tough time against the 28 Panteras in rough water.


Ernie, I was at Marathon last year, when APBA used GPS for the first time. There were no problems and there were some DQs. The only complaints and appeals were DQs due to boat numbers not being legal size.

Ron, yes, this is what we want. (or most want anyway) As long as the GPS are set up correctly, it will work. And when the GPS reading is shown to the team, another competing team member should be present to witness and sign off .


The F-1 boat was run in P-5, only because they have absolutely no experience in the boat and the owner has never run a race boat much less a go fast boat.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Raynman, Im sorry, and somewhat dissappointed that you did not stay. There is a size limit in P-5. And we all fit into it. We all have to run the same speed. Its obvious that the 28s will have a large advantage over the 24s. No one can blame you if you decide to sit it out. I know how you feel. I raced a 24 Baja in 2002, and tried damn hard to keep up with a absolute legal P-5 28 Pantera in the ocean. It was pretty tough but, I held my own in the straight away. But, then we got into some real snot and crashed in a turn.

I dont mean to be redundant but what I guess Im trying to say, is max speed really isnt the issue as much as size. If your capable of doing 70 in your boat, you will still have a tough time with a 28 capable of the same speed in rough water.

If my boat were capable of 80 or 82, I would still get my ass kicked by a 38 in rough water. Lets see how Lukie does, when he runs his new 28 Pantera w/700hp in P-4.

Good luck in whatever you decide. I hope we see you again in the near future

regards

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Steelintime, a gentlemen named John sent me footage of Sunday's race (Thank You John) and I would really like you to see it. Your boat was outta the water more than it was in. My boat is 12,000 lbs. with a full tank of fuel which is what we had. My speed was 80.1 not 81, we run 650 HP not 750. There are 2 sofas, queen bed, ref., bathroom, back seat and my fat a$$. The point is it's takes a lot to get her out of the water not saying I didn't get my a$$ kicked Sunday, that means everytime your boat is out of the water I'm gaining ground plus we turn the pins on a dime. That was our kinda of water Sunday. Bad Boys 32 chased us for 6 laps till he broke and was never more that 10 feet off my a$$, we swapped the lead at least 5 times and he was coming on strong and probley would have taken us if he hadn't broke. I'm sure at the calmer water races we have you guy's are all going to have the advantage over us, we'll be stuck to the water. We're running P3 this weekend in Sarastoa with SBI (Different Rules) every boat is faster than ours but we're on a fine line of P4 and P3, it doesn't matter, we're going to have fun. My choices are go down and run against bigger, faster boats but have a good time with all the friends I've made over the years or stay in Jersey a poke my dogs in their eyes all weekend! Kinda a no brainer. I hope you will continue to race with us but most of all, have fun with us. Augie

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Bruce,
If you asked me a question before and I did not respond I appologize for that,but as for the boats running in the wrong class I will have to say that I am not the only person who feels that way.My Velocity will run 95 mph so should I slow it down with smaller props and and just lay back and run it in p4,the awnser is no,that is not racing and I will not do that,I would have to run in P2 but the size of the boat will work against me because it is only 32 feet long and I would be competing against some much larger boats.I think that you guys need to look at the structure of each class and make some small changes,especially P5,it should be for the true entry level racer that is trying to get his feet wet and learn what the sport is all about,but what is happening is you get that guy to show up,spends his money to race and he gets his but stomped,what fun is that,NONE,now if he lost because he broke or had his set up wrong but was still just a little competetive then he will come back again and try a little harder,Agreed.The only way it will work for all of the P classes will be to have a single engine class for basicly a stock powered boat and then a class for a single modified powered boat with weight limits,size limits,and cubic inch limits and structure all of the other P classes the same way that way it comes down to boat set up and balance and preperation of the crew,this is how all of all other motorsports are handled and boat racing needs to be the same.I guess it would be like John Force racing against a Pro stock car it just would not be fair.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Hyper, you have a pefect P3 boat.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Gentlemen, understanably our first attempt at the GPS did not go very well. I just spoke to Kurt and Ron, In AC we will have the GPS fixed to the boat, by the tech crew. They will be in the boat before you leave the inlet. After the race, the racing team will be able to see their own final speed only. Average lap speeds will be posted on the race trailer. Any questions?

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Smitty...

Why cant the GPS speeds be posted as well? I dont see the logic.

Hyper1. As Ron says, you have a perfect P-3 boat so whats the problem?

I disagree that P-5 should be a "entry level class". It can be entry level for the smaller boats, but Its a 70 mph class, PERIOD. Maybe the people with the 24s will get their feet wet but they wont win in rough water against bigger boats. Maybe, after a season of running the 24s, they will realize, as I did (the hard way) that they need a bigger boat. P-classes are not going to change, so build a boat to fit a specific class. Otherwise stay on the beach.

With all due repect to you, I dont know you.
Im not trying to be difficult or a hard ass, Im just stating the facts. Just as your boat cant compete in P-2 against bigger boats, I cant compete in P-4. Its easier to slow my boat down than to speed it up just to run P-4 and totally beat the crap out of it. We beat it up pretty good in P-5 Sunday. I could just imagine what it would look like if we ran 10mph faster. If you want, I'll drop an HP500 in my boat, and the bigger boats will still dominate P-5.

So, lets move on, cause Im not movin up.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Bruce, As you know an HP500 is what we are running in our 28ft Pantera P5-15 "Sonic Boom Racing". As I'm sure you will concur, we were being quite competitive with you this past Sunday, that was until we cooked our motor!
On calmer water, it could be anyone's race, on rough water even in a smaller boat you could still do OK! It will come down to your ability to run a little harder and hope the other guy breaks or breaks out, and you don't!!

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

This is “speed bracket” racing, not top speed racing or maximum boat speed racing. If I had a boat that had a max speed of 73 MPH, would I want to be at the bottom of the P4 or the top of the P5 class? If I ever hoped of winning I would choose the latter. If you want to compete you need to be at the top or near top of your bracket. All the boats we raced last Sunday had the capability of running 70MPH. GPS, albeit not gospel due to spikes is the great equalizer. Last year without the GPS, we were passed so fast by boats in our class it nearly sucked our helmets off. This year OPA is trying to enforce the speed limits and I applaud their efforts. I have heard countless stories of GPS spikes of more than just a few MPH. Until anyone can come up with a way to truly measure the consistent speed of these boats, it’s the best they have. How we get them into the boat is being improved (from what I’m reading here).
I hear a lot about same prop/engine/weight, they have those classes in other organizations SVL, F1-2. There is to much diversification between competitors in the lower classes, of the four 28’ Pantera’s no one runs the same set-up, different props, max RPM’s and drive heights. This organization is “race what you have”. They will find a place for you from 70 to 110MPH. I think it’s just as much fun to watch two or three boats fighting it out at 88-89MPH regardless of what size they are or how many engines they have. Actually I think that is more fun to watch.
As far as “pulling back” goes, and I mean no disrespect hyper1, I would truly enjoy seeing you come out and race Wazzup at 89.9 MPH. Run smaller wheels and get him out of the corners. Is that racing…. absolutely. Can your boat go faster, yes…can you get to 89.9 faster, yes….but abuse that advantage and you break out and get penalized for it.
Everyone is hung up on the max speed a boat is capable of and boat size, we got our clocks cleaned last year by a 24’ boat, almost twice. Sunday we led our class and the last 2/3rds of the race we barley broke 64 MPH. There are obvious advantages of both but a proper set up can be competitive.
Is OPA perfect, no. Can anyone come up with a better way to accommodate the masses to go out and race, I’m sure Smitty, Augie, Kurt and Ron are listening.

See you all in AC

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Dont you agree that whatever class you race in it should have a weight ,length and cubic inch limitation wheather you are running a single,twin or tripple engine boat or does the level of competition not matter anymore,because I always thought it was about a fair and level playing field which at this present time you really dont have,and no my boat is not a good P3 boat because of the speeds it is capable of,I might not be able to run those speeds all of the time in the ocean but I will bet you on almost any day I can break the P3 speeds with no problem at all.So keep it the way it is and it will remain what it is,or make a few changes and and rule changes and maybe you will see the sport grow in our area when after all that is what is trying to be accomplished.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Hyper, I gotta hop a plane and would love to discuss this futher with you but...if we went by weight limits I'd be pulling barges and turning aircraft carriers around in the Hudson River, not having fun. Talk to you after Sarasota. Augie

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all i have to say is this got way off topic...i will say one last thing and then i will keep my mouth shut....hyper if u want weight length and engine limitations in every class then go buy urself a super vee or super cat for a couple mil and have fun but thats not what bracket racing is about that is y it is what it is....u choose what u want to do obviously but i dont think u r goin to see any of those ideas as rules any time soon in any of the bracket classes....atleast i hope not because then i wouldnt have a class to run in....as of right now comin to ac for P1 i have a 40' motion supercat with all legal specs for oss supercat, 36 spectre with 750hp motors and no.6's , 36 skater with 525hp with no.6's , possible 36 skater supercat light with 525's and xr's, and of course myself a 32 skater with 675hp with no. 5's,....now that doesnt seem like a very evenly matched class right well i will let u be the judge come check it out in ac and u tell me the distance between all 5 cats during the course of the race because i can tell u now that its gonna be a great race no doubt about it...all about how u set the boat up...everyone should stop thinkin about top speed and starting thinkin about how fast u can get it to the top speed u wanna run even if it means shaving a few off the top and gainin a couple seconds out of the corner thats how u will win a race...again all my opinion thanx for listening hope u all come to run ac...u wont wanna miss it trust me!!!!!
Stroker

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Hyper1...Your way of racing is Old School. Weight, CI, Size ect ect. Is A Class B Class and so on. That isnt gonna happen here in the forseeable future. If your boat is capable of 95 mph in optimum conditions, it may only hit 90 in race conditions. Hell Wazzup is capable of more than 90 also. But hes too small to jump up to P-2. So, he elected to set the boat up so it runs 90 Max. There is nothing shameful about that. Add some weight, Prop down, Drives deeper in the water. Whatever.

I think your just afraid that Wazzup is gonna whoop on ya. Cmon out and show us what you got. I'de love to see ya whoop on him. But, I guess we will never know cause your too proud to race P-3.

Later

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very well put bruce...in other words put up or shut up!
Stroker

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I spoke with the powers that be today and I think you will see a dramatic improvement in A/C.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Just have two starts with 15 boats in each class. Forget prize money and entry money. If this is truely for just fun, you will have your bragging rights on who you beat on the course. You know who you are racing thats conpetitive with you. Hell you might take down someone you didnt think you had a chance to beat. Let Kirt keep the sponsor money to run the show but us as the racers dont pay to be in it!
MD

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Not a bad idea Mad Dog! Just plain old street racing....I mean ocean racing!!

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Sorry Maddog... I disagree. We are talking about Racing not Poker running.

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:eek: :eek: DOH!!!!

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Looking at it from the other side, I'm thrilled that we don't have to tech inspect engines. That's a pain and it takes a dedicated crew to catch people. And even then, someone will say your cheating.

This is racing on a budget (yeah right), you can build your own motors and run any drive package, the only stipulation is the speed that you run during the race. This allows anything from an SOB (single OB) to a Supercat a place to race in just five competitive classes.

If the racers are having fun and feel they all have a chance at a trophy, and the fans are enjoying the show, what's missing?

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Seriously, I agree with Ron.
The bottom line is we have five classes to fit a lot of different boats! We have the basic rules of each class and a max speed to have some degree of fairness, that you can not exceed during the race! The bottom line is we all either know this before we get involved or learn ( as we did last summer) that you need to set up your boat to be the best for that particular class!!
Using the GPSs is a great improvement, and now having run one race with them the officials know what they need to fix to have it work the way that they had planned.

Ron, there is nothing economical about ANY type of boat racing!! It's just a matter of how much $$ you can burn!! The less $$ you have, the more resourceful you have to be!!

The bottom line is we go out to have fun. I think that the OPA is doing a great job at what they set out to do! Nobody is perfect, and you are always going to have people that are not happy!

The crew of "Sonic Boom Racing" is just plain happy to be able to race with OPA!!

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Tom, You da man!

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I ran my 26 corsa got lapped broke after 9 and 1/2 laps and had a great time.
I will fix my boat and race the rest of the season regardless. I do see some changes I need to make for my boat and I can guarantee It (the boat) won't be there next year but I will with something different already in the works. Race what you brung I did and will and I am severly disadvantaged by size (the boat) in bigger water but don't forget anygiven day. :cool:
JIm

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

As the Typhoon Historian, I went back to my records. Last year at the Maryland race, the Krazy Kubans were running their itty-bitty 24 foot Carrera in P5. For 4 laps, they were leading the complete P5 field, plus the complete P4 field, Typhoon's Kryptonite, Augies Flying Culture Club, everybody.

Then they broke. Which was the salvation for the other teams.

Come on, boyz. Run what you've brung. Take home what you get. All the Nutz (and possibly more) will be in AC, and we'll race wherever they put us, no moaning.

http://www.wetpits.com/pete/trophywild.jpg

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Peconic,
Don't you think that itty-bitty Carrera would have "broken out" if it had a GPS???

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

We'll never know. The point is that in that race, an itty-bitty Carrera with one engine and two Nutz could spank the other guys. Let's have fun and let's race. Life is serious enough.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Maybe not....The P-4's weren't as fast last year.... :drink:

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

So, inferring from some of the posts here, if a guy with a little boat wants to be competitive in P5 there are two choices:

1. Make sure his boat is capable of 80 mph to guarantee he can safely run 70 in race conditions or
2. Trade his boat in on a 28' Pantera and come up with the extra $.

Instead of offering "spec" classes like SOB which had 0 participants it would make a lot more sense to have a 25' and under class for all the smaller boats (without the more exotic power in the itty-bitty Carrera). How many small boats would show up at an event then? I would bet half a dozen or more. But yet there are provisions for classes like P2 where few boats ever show up. And then there is the issue with stepping down a class which ends up with the 100% legit (top speed, ideal conditions, 70 mph) smaller P5 boat being even less competitive. By competitive I don't necessarily mean winning, but rather to not be lapped repeatedly. There will always be some other crew and boat combo that has an edge.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Look guys it is real simple,have a set of rules that are not flexible in any way shape or form like it was in the past like size,weight and cubic inches for every cat and v bottom class and that will level out the playing field,I here what all of you are saying and some is correct and some is not,Stroker is correct in one of his statements when he said he has to run Jay in a 40 Motion,when in reality he should be in a differant class wheather he admits it or not,one is a cat light and one is a super cat./PERIOD/.There are alot of boats that can be competitive in certain classes even though they are smaller for many differant reasons but that is rare in most cases,I have been around the sport for many years and I have seen it all but weather we all want to agree or not all of the rules I posted above will and is the only way to level the playing field,just as Mike A did with the APBA even though we all know that he handled certain things was not always the best at least we had fair competition.Stepping down a class and running smaller props is not racing in my opinion,racing is running flat out with the best set up for how ever many laps and may the best boat win not wondering if we went to fast and are we going to get penalized because that is BS,if you want to do the break out of your time thing go bracket drag racing because that is where it should stay,this sport should be about fair and even competition and nothing else,right know the OSS Boys have got the rules in place and the classes broken down the way they should be even though some of you might not agree, but how they are doing things is how it should be done and hopefully others will follow or join together.The Jersey boys as a group have done great things and I think you should be commended for it but I dont have to agree with the the rule book written in pencil and the GPS speeds because as you have seen in the past it does not and will never work 100 percent,because ther is no way to know who is laying back and who is not.Here is a real quick senario two 32 foot skaters runnind in the same class,both will run over 100 mph one has 525 efis and AND BRAVOS AND THE OTHER HAS 900 mERCRUISERS AND 6 DRIVES WHO WILL WIN RUFF OR FLAT CONDITIONS/DUH and I know that some will still say that would be fair but in reality it is not is it.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

Hyper1...You are missing the whole point. And Im tired of trying to explain it to you. There are way too many boats out there to fit into a specific class. Not everyone has 120k or 300k or more laying around to run the OSS classes. Yes they are on a level playing field. But what about all the other boats out there that dont fit into a specific class? Thats where P class comes in. Why cant every one just put together a boat that can run at the top at a specific class? Im not gonna go out and continue to run my boat balls to the wall to try to compete with a boat that is 10 feet bigger. I would do it against all the other Panteras, which is in P-5.

Quit your whining and run your boat in P-3. Lets see if you have what it takes. I dont care if you have been around Racing for years. This is today...that was yesterday. Its a new ERA. So lets rock!!!!

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

The "run what you brung" P-Class(I hate that name) format is what it is, and as Bruce pointed out, allows boats that dont fit a "spec" class an opportunity to race.But I also agree with Hyper1 that more criteria is needed when it comes to class placement;length and horsepower certainly should be considerations that would level the playing field and make for more competitive racing.I know OPA is committed to keeping it at five classes; but a small boat class as suggested by Rob M. may not be a bad idea if there are enough boats to warrant it.As stated before,P5 really is not an "entry level" class in terms of the investment required to be competitive.You need a way to continue to attract new teams to the sport that hopefully will get hooked and move up in class over time.Many of the drivers and throttlemen that are currently racing in the upper classes started thier racing careers in a small boat class;many of them racing thier pleasure boats before investing in a true race boat.Just my opinion.

Re: Brick OPA Results
 

guys there is really nothing to complain about. ther are 5 classes to chose from.pick one and buy or build a boat to run at the top of that class.24 footers are too small to be in the ocean.the other option is too go back to dollar racing where guys were spending 150,000 on a class boats or running 38 foot 110mph b boats.i've been there, it doesn't work.the only reason i can put my boat back out there is the gps format.i can run 3 different classes if i chose p4,p3,or even p2 in a flat race and just basically change setup.as long as i don't break out it's legal.there are a ton of good old race boats laying around that people can't give away.if your boat isn't competitive in a class then step up to a bigger boat.