Re: Racer's input.....
 

Bingo!!!!

How many fans attend a race? I'm talking about fans that specifically came to watch?

In Key West on Sunday, how many people lined the sea wall? 5000? Tops?

In Orange Beach, 300,000 watch it but how many would be there anyhow? 299,000?

At the NY SBI race, there might be 1000 people watching and mostly because they hear the noise and stop to watch.

The last two years in Marathon, maybe 1500 to 2000 people came to watch.

The best turnout I ever saw was in Milwaukee. Must have been close to 10,000 in the park specifically there to watch the race.

Offshore racing is for the racers. Its the most fun you can have with your clothes on. It's fun to watch too but since its hard to collect money to watch, there's no big incentive to advertise for it.

For now, don't worry about the fans. They aren't the problem.

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Ron, advertising costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, that's why no one shows up. Look at Sarasota, WILD! Right now it's up tp the racers to get the word out and thats what The Jersey Boyz try to do, where ever we go, make noise. Someone's gotta hear us! I know $hit is hard with sponsors, Smitty and I thought we had a home run with Nesquik buying us a new boat this coming year only to get knocked down because bussiness is down from the year before, so we'll just keep plugging The Jersey Boyz and Nesquik. I'm game to meet at the Miami Boat Show with Smitty, Sticks and Pop-Pop.

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Bring back US OFFSHORE

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Mike...you never cease to amaze me :rolleyes:

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Just having some FUN.

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Guys you are all missing the point the schedules are out for all 3 organizations already and thats not going to change.If you even wanted to piggy back on some races how do you know what racers are really going to even come to lite. OSS had a schedule last year and only ended up racing 2 OSS races and piggy backing with the GLSCS for 2 more.So until we even truly know what we have how do u make plans and tell your sponsors where you will be. These conversations are replays of last Dec and nothing changes. You want to try and get all the groups together and meet,come on guys don't you think they are reading this now,and don't you think sponsors are also they are laughing.
I'm sure we all saw the almost naked pics Randy posted and this is nothing towards you bud it was fun but don't you think sponsors see this the same way we do and think we are all a joke.The 3 organizations are doing what they think they need to do thats why they are running their business and not us. They are all looking at a much bigger pic then we are,and will stay the course.OSS tried it and look at what happen they were so un-happy with APBA, and they are right back where they started from with racers in their origination that aren't happy with things that will never change.If that was the fix they would have more boats then 25 racing and more towns begging for them to race in their cities.
We need to be racers and not promoters leave that to the organizations its not as easy as you all think it is if it was I guess you would be doing it.Each team needs to decide where they want to race and do the best they can to support that ever group they race.We all have to decide what works best for our team,SCHEDULE,TV,PRIZE MONEY,ABILITY TO GET SPONSORS,ENTRY FEES, and most important LOCATION.

Frank
"kOOLHAND"

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1.Too many classes ? 510cu carb only and weight limit..
2.Can't tell who wins?How about a program at each race(maybe a scratch sheet like the Horse races)

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Brett,
As you can see from this post, there are to many teams with such different views. You will see, the best thing for your team is to sit down and decide how your going to run it....as just a hobby or run it as a business and a true perfessional race team. There are a few teams that are run like a business and they have the sponsors to back them up and are doing pretty good at it. While promoting sponsors dose help greatly with TV. There are plenty of other ways to promote your sponsors....and teams have been doing it for years....But don't let all the political B.S. change the way you want to run your team....We all can agree a 25 to 30 boat class would be hug for the sport and its all what we want....but I don't hear any santioning body telling racers your all running this class if you want to race....they have class's to accomadate what the racers want......don't take this wrong but if the racers really want a 30 boat class...find a class were their is the most boats and build or buy a boat to fit that class and do the best you can. Your always going to have teams that what to run p class....because they have a good time just going out and racing and hangging out....I think thats great...because some of them take it to the next level...but in a true professional class the rules need to be set and the racers just need to follow them...no *****ing...just using NASCAR as a example....every team there wishes that they could run up front...but the reality is there are alot of teams that are consistentently running in the back of the back....but they still show up every race to try to qualify...not "if I can't run up front I'll go race somewhere else"....Brett I really think 2005 will have the biggest Super Class ever....Maybe that will be the start......But its up to the racers....I don't see SBI, APBA or OSS holding a gun to my head telling me I can only run with them....choose your poisin....race it and do the best you can for the sport.....
and this time my dog didn't write this.....

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Hey Mark,
Thanks....I'm hear to stay..I made the commitment to race and do it the best I can...I'm letting the manufacture make the announcment....and they want to do it right...with all the sponsors singed and putting out the vision for the team ...we will race 2 santions...along with Poker Runs and boat shows along with a few visits to NEXTEL Races....Its going to be a good year, With a great group of people making up the team.....but it will be soon....probably within the next 2 weeks everything will be final....
I will keep intouch.....

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frank how many of those races are in ink?i'm sure alot of them are not as always by the time the season gets here everything changes anyway.your right nothing will change if nobody does anything about it.once againi i'll point out bassmasters is a profesional full time sport with major sponsorship.boat manufactuers ,marine eletronics companies, trailer companys,outboard motor manufatuers even mercury all sponsor a guy throwing a lure in the water.not because its exciting to watch because it was marketed properly.this has the potetial.

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bd free, your missing the point .its called offshore racing.nothing against the lakes but there shouldn't be any flat water races most lakes are.

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Calm water or not, the racers should be just happy they have water to race in.

I've raced in the Great Lakes and there's rough water out there too. Just ask the people on Lake Erie and others about Lake Michigan. :eek: :eek: :eek:

The Atlantic and the Gulf have their share of calm days. Maybe they should start canceling them due to it being too calm.... :rolleyes:

Take whatever your dealt with come race day. Just prop it for the conditions.

After seeing the race in North Carolina on the river, calm yes. But it was the next best exciting racing I have seen. Of course Key West was 1st! ;)

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Good points indeed Shane, But how do you explain spelling bees and poker on ESPN?

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Because the average person can participate in either of those events with relative low cost and ease. Offshore boat racing is completely disconnected from the average persons life. The majority of people I speak to have never been in a "Cigarette" style boat much less taken interest in a race. They consider it to be like Polo, some rich guys geting together to race their horrendously expensive toys......

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So, your telling me people would much rather watch a spelling bee or a poker game on TV rather than a well produced powerboat race? It just doesnt make sense. Who pays for those shows? They actually get sponsors? Un freakin real

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The reality is that Offshore racing is a novelty to most people. Anybody can go play poker, hell most of us have lost our ass in Vegas a few times. I would like to think that nobody here participates in spelling bees...............

Bruce, I agree that Offshore is the baddest type of racing out there. The Nascar guys are hardly even working compared to your average race team but....... when Billy Bob redneck leaves the race track after watching his favorite GM driver go 175mph all day he climbs into his chevy lumina and gets an immediate connection, bolstered by media bombardment from the manufacturer to buy the lumina.

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Horse racing is "THE SPORT OF KINGS" and they don't have a problem keeping the "average person" as spectators.

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And how many people own horses????

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What's your point?

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I enjoy a good speeling bee from time to time

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Shane I always wounder about that cost to pruduce a show....I'm just curious...with big turn boats and a start finish boat that could have camera's on them and Jeff G. in the air along with others with camera's along with a bunch of ON boards...there would be more then enough footage, just curious how the $60,000 brakes down....I know the GLSCS had TV...But I don't know the cost....I have talk to the guys that do the show...but never got into cost.....anyone know what the cost is for SBI or GLSCS to produce a show.....????

Frank...I know you have a lot of ties with SBI.....any light you could shine here?

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Gino,

A simple 2 camera show, one air one on the ground is $30K. About $10K to shoot and $20K in post production. Pro series shows should run about $50K. TV time is $18K to $40K depending on the time slot and deal you make with the network.

J

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Thanks Jim.....Was just woundering....With SBI and the GLSCS both supporting 20-25 boats and have TV coverage...I would think the 60 -70 boat count could help out with the expense alittle + With the bigger boat count better chance of closer racing somewhere on the course....Good to here from you again....

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lets get back on the topic.there is no way that all the boats racing together ,one race per weekend could be bad for the sport in any way.thats where it needs to start.once againif you have a product people want the rest will follow.

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Gino,

There are 16- 30 second spots in the show. Depending on your time buy, you have to sell them for $4200 to $5600 just to break even.

J

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If the TV audience like spelling bees, that can easily be worked into a racing weekend. :D

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My point is that there is spectator/fan intereset due to the commonality of the hobby/sport.

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Gino,
It cost about 60,000-75,000 thousand per race.I agree more boat do make a better show but it doesn't bring cost down you have more expenses. Extra cranes,medical,coppers,staff,rooms for the staff,meals and so on believe me it adds up quick,bigger isn't always better.

Frank
"Koolhand"

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Thanks Frank....

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Gino ,

Call Mike St. Armand( I think thats how it's spelled) Last year at GLSC meetings he was talking $12,000 for his productions. Which formula picked up most of cost. Good to have ya back buddy.

Mike Sadlon

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Guys,

The best short term solution would be for the three sanctioning bodies to enter into an agreement to have "joint race sites". The sanctioning bodies get to split costs for security, permitting fees, safety crews and some TV production costs. The economies of scale allow each to save significant money, while still maintaining their identity.

The organization that has the most registered entries (as of 30 days prior to the race) gets Sunday to race alone. The other two race on Saturday. One races their classes early and the other late. This makes the sanctioning bodies compete for your loyalty even more than they do now - so they can wrap up the Sunday races. Since the sanctioning bodies are saving money........then they can pass on more to the racers. The racers win.

At the end of the weekend, you have APBA winners, SBI winners and OSS winners. If the racers "cross registered" then, they may be the overall winner for that race. The fans get to watch two full days of racing, and the race sponsors get to look forward to potentially 9 to 11 hours of races per weekend.

The current pissing contest among so-called sanctioning bodies has driven the sport into the ground. All politics aside (if you don't know who's side I'm on, just ask), the sport deserves better. Find a way to work together............like APBA and SBI did for several races..........recognize the economies of scale of joint race sites.........and hopefully things will get better without an organization going down the tubes and taking the sport with it.

This is a short term solution - all three sanctioning bodies would benefit..........and hopefully the racers. As of now there will be 28 separate races (APBA, SBI, OPA and OSS) spread out over 21 different weekends in 2005. Six weekends feature two of the sanctioning bodies racing in different sites. On one weekend three of the four host different race sites. If you were a race "promoter", would you be ****tin* your pants looking at the overall schedule? I would, if I had just made big promises to my local tourism board.

As it stands, in my humble opinion........... 25% of the races will be good, 25% will get cancelled, 25% will cause the promoter to lose his azz, and the other 25% will happen but with no spectators/media. Joint race sites is the first "baby step". Otherwise................what racer wants to step forward and write the $170,000 check to subsidize the next race.

Food for thought from an ex-racer - that's all.

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Hey Mike.....Thanks...I talk to Mike ST.A. about 4 or 5 times during the 2003 season while racing with the GLSCS....We talk alot about how it was produce...just never the $ amount....
Talk to ya soon....

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How do you come up with $170,000 to put on a race?

I like your ideas, but there would also be the need to insure the race three times since three different rule books would be used. Where's the savings? The cranes?

Why does everyone look to the sanctioning bodies to solve the issues? It's up to the racers/customers to force any changes.

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Bob Bull and Big John could answer whether there would be any real savings. Sarasota was done that way - kind of. Both sanctioning bodies raced and awarded points, but they were able to split costs for security, cranes, fencing, race advertising, permitting fees, printing, helicopter/safety costs, etc. Just an idea for a short term solution to some of the racer's concerns.

As for the $170,000.......a promoter told me that not too long ago. I won't say who though.

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That figure must include a $75,000 purse and TV coverage for another $60,000. It's the only way to get the numbers that high.

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Must be Mr. Mills quoting that number, I hear it's his favorite number when asking for money in the keys.
for what that's worth!!!!!

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I thought Mill's went into buisiness with.Allweiss ?

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Nope-

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Uh,,, I don't think so.....