Mine list with reasons: (new models only)...I only ranked the ones I have enough experience with

1. Outerlimits (boat has it all: performance, resale, build quality, fit and finish; everything is top notch, the list is endless, no expense is spared on these boats)

2. Cigarette (very close to outerlimits in terms of the items mentioned above but has lesser resale, cabin is not as luxurious, more sport oriented)

3. Hustler (i am only ranking the newer ones here, fit and finish is excellent, performance is not as great as the two mentioned above, descent curb appeal, ok resale, again all categories dont quite meet the boats in the #1 and #2 spot)

4. Apache (I have it edging formula but just barely, based primarily on performance only!!!, personally i think apaches look dated even the new ones, resale is ok, fit and finish is nice but again it looks dated, very dated)

5. Formula (performance hurts formula, they look great, cabin and cockpit look modern, fit and finish are great, resale is good due to the namesake and customer service, performance really really hurts formula but i think it makes up for itself in the curb appeal, resale, and build quality)

6. Powerplay (again very dated, for me it doesnt have enough of a performance edge to beat fountain or formula overall, no curb appeal to me personally, resale is good, fit and finish is good)

Scot

You still have a seat it just happens to be in the back now. Seriously I agree about OL making the best and fastest hull out here, and I think they are moving the design envelope forward. Couple of reasons for me as to why they don't run away from the competition in my opinion. 1. From what have heard and read on this board OL's riggin is second or third to other manufactures. 2. The rumor that there is friction between Mercury and OL and the lack of one of the most desired tried and trued packages. 3. The accidents that have happened in regards to spin outs. With that being said they revolutionazed the stepped bottom, they pushed the design and lines and even the paint of the boats appearance that most have immiated, and obvisously the speed has set the bench mark.


Adam when I came up with hte list I was thinking of anyone buying new. We could do another list of best rough water rides of all times and yes Apache and PP would be among the top boats

ok i hear ya frank, but moses, this statement is a lie "Powerplay for me it doesnt have enough of a performance edge to beat formula overall" A 33 PP will rape a 35 fastech with equal power in any water. eliminate the swim platform from the formula and they are about the same length.

yea...the performance edge that the powerplay does have over the formula (which i am agreeing to) isnt enough when you look at the whole picture...

i agree the powerplay will walk all over the 353...but it doesnt have a significant enough advantage to me to put the powerplay ahead of formula.

formula's cockpit and cabin are done a lot better than powerplay. IMO. Also the customer service and support level at Formula is near the best in the business thanks in large part to the other boats they make (PC's, etc).

The fit and finish on the formula is better to me. This may be due to the fact that powerplays look dated to me. Those categories kind of go hand in hand.

oh ok i get what ur saying now. i thought u were saying just performance wise

nothing against powerplays of course...they are great boats. but there is an obvious reason why i purchased my boat and you purchased yours. there is nothing wrong with that. different needs and wants...thats all

Yes.

As far as cabins go first and second place go Outerlimits and Active Thunder and Cigarette comes in dead last. I know some guys could care less about a cabin but my experience is it gets some use and the nicer it is the more appealing. This is where Cigarette has blown it in my opinion. There is not that much down there to drive cost up significantly and it would finish the boat off. AT & OL walk away in this category then probably Fountain, Sonic, Formula etc.

I'm not a cheerleader for any one manufacturer, I would agree OL has had a couple of flaws in the past. But to address your points, I would counter with these...
1) Agreed on the rigging, although I think they've improved over the last couple of years. Take a peek at a recent OL, I think you'll see there's a huge difference between their current boats and the old boats. There a contender with Cig these days in that department. Their build and construction is vastly superior to just about all.
2) From a buyers perspective looking for Merc power, I would agree. OTOH, I cant say Merc's strong-arming monopolistic tactics are good for anyone, including the boat manufacturers or buyers. I for one am happy to see someone flipping them the bird. Probably not a good place to expand on this though... Lets just say I'd love to see Illmor's/Indy's and Arneson's on more boats.
3) The jury's still out on the spin-outs IMO. I think any stepped boat that's pushed to its limits (often with inexperienced drivers) is prone to spinning. With that said, I think OL has played with the bottom designs more than any other, so obviously there will be some better designs than others... and of course only the better designs will be copied by others going forward.

Given the age of OL as a company and the resources at hand, I truly believe they have evolved far more than others in this time period. They realized a long time ago there are better ways to make a HP boat than with plywood and a chopper gun. Yes Reggie really did a lot on the race course, but look at the huge resources he had behind him and the number of years he's been at it. Cig, I love them, but they seem to be followers rather than leaders when it comes to forward thinking and evolution, lets not even mention the cabins, bravo drives, and McColors!

So while I agree OL has had a few growing pains getting to where they are today, I think they are now at the point where they hands down make a superior product... and I only see the gap widening.

Just my useless 2 cents...

i dont know if i agree with your cigarette assessment...while the cabins arent great, they arent that bad. i guess its in the eye of the beholder. obviously peoples opinions differ. i just think they go for a more sport oriented boat.

i.e. its the bmw of the water...altho bmw's have lousy interiors they are a great car to drive and look at.