Dan, did your dad get a new boat???
02-15-2011 | 03:29 PM
#71
Can You Hear Me Now??
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 102
From: Old Saybrook CT
I'm not a cheerleader for any one manufacturer, I would agree OL has had a couple of flaws in the past. But to address your points, I would counter with these...
1) Agreed on the rigging, although I think they've improved over the last couple of years. Take a peek at a recent OL, I think you'll see there's a huge difference between their current boats and the old boats. There a contender with Cig these days in that department. Their build and construction is vastly superior to just about all.
2) From a buyers perspective looking for Merc power, I would agree. OTOH, I cant say Merc's strong-arming monopolistic tactics are good for anyone, including the boat manufacturers or buyers. I for one am happy to see someone flipping them the bird. Probably not a good place to expand on this though... Lets just say I'd love to see Illmor's/Indy's and Arneson's on more boats.
3) The jury's still out on the spin-outs IMO. I think any stepped boat that's pushed to its limits (often with inexperienced drivers) is prone to spinning. With that said, I think OL has played with the bottom designs more than any other, so obviously there will be some better designs than others... and of course only the better designs will be copied by others going forward.
Given the age of OL as a company and the resources at hand, I truly believe they have evolved far more than others in this time period. They realized a long time ago there are better ways to make a HP boat than with plywood and a chopper gun. Yes Reggie really did a lot on the race course, but look at the huge resources he had behind him and the number of years he's been at it. Cig, I love them, but they seem to be followers rather than leaders when it comes to forward thinking and evolution, lets not even mention the cabins, bravo drives, and McColors!
So while I agree OL has had a few growing pains getting to where they are today, I think they are now at the point where they hands down make a superior product... and I only see the gap widening.
Just my useless 2 cents...
1) Agreed on the rigging, although I think they've improved over the last couple of years. Take a peek at a recent OL, I think you'll see there's a huge difference between their current boats and the old boats. There a contender with Cig these days in that department. Their build and construction is vastly superior to just about all.
2) From a buyers perspective looking for Merc power, I would agree. OTOH, I cant say Merc's strong-arming monopolistic tactics are good for anyone, including the boat manufacturers or buyers. I for one am happy to see someone flipping them the bird. Probably not a good place to expand on this though... Lets just say I'd love to see Illmor's/Indy's and Arneson's on more boats.
3) The jury's still out on the spin-outs IMO. I think any stepped boat that's pushed to its limits (often with inexperienced drivers) is prone to spinning. With that said, I think OL has played with the bottom designs more than any other, so obviously there will be some better designs than others... and of course only the better designs will be copied by others going forward.
Given the age of OL as a company and the resources at hand, I truly believe they have evolved far more than others in this time period. They realized a long time ago there are better ways to make a HP boat than with plywood and a chopper gun. Yes Reggie really did a lot on the race course, but look at the huge resources he had behind him and the number of years he's been at it. Cig, I love them, but they seem to be followers rather than leaders when it comes to forward thinking and evolution, lets not even mention the cabins, bravo drives, and McColors!
So while I agree OL has had a few growing pains getting to where they are today, I think they are now at the point where they hands down make a superior product... and I only see the gap widening.
Just my useless 2 cents...
02-15-2011 | 03:34 PM
#72
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,759
Likes: 157
From: Connecticut
i dont know if i agree with your cigarette assessment...while the cabins arent great, they arent that bad. i guess its in the eye of the beholder. obviously peoples opinions differ. i just think they go for a more sport oriented boat.
i.e. its the bmw of the water...altho bmw's have lousy interiors they are a great car to drive and look at.
i.e. its the bmw of the water...altho bmw's have lousy interiors they are a great car to drive and look at.
02-15-2011 | 03:37 PM
#73
Can You Hear Me Now??
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,758
Likes: 102
From: Old Saybrook CT
i dont know if i agree with your cigarette assessment...while the cabins arent great, they arent that bad. i guess its in the eye of the beholder. obviously peoples opinions differ. i just think they go for a more sport oriented boat.
i.e. its the bmw of the water...altho bmw's have lousy interiors they are a great car to drive and look at.
i.e. its the bmw of the water...altho bmw's have lousy interiors they are a great car to drive and look at.
For me it is the new cabins on the 39's that do anything for me. They are sporty looking but not real funtional. It is hard to buy a $600,000 boat and have the toilet in the middle of the cabin. Also you can only sleep 2. In my cabin you have the 2 couches you can sleep on, but compared to a AT or OL it is bare bones.
02-15-2011 | 03:38 PM
#74
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,759
Likes: 157
From: Connecticut
I'm not a cheerleader for any one manufacturer, I would agree OL has had a couple of flaws in the past. But to address your points, I would counter with these...
1) Agreed on the rigging, although I think they've improved over the last couple of years. Take a peek at a recent OL, I think you'll see there's a huge difference between their current boats and the old boats. There a contender with Cig these days in that department. Their build and construction is vastly superior to just about all.
2) From a buyers perspective looking for Merc power, I would agree. OTOH, I cant say Merc's strong-arming monopolistic tactics are good for anyone, including the boat manufacturers or buyers. I for one am happy to see someone flipping them the bird. Probably not a good place to expand on this though... Lets just say I'd love to see Illmor's/Indy's and Arneson's on more boats.
3) The jury's still out on the spin-outs IMO. I think any stepped boat that's pushed to its limits (often with inexperienced drivers) is prone to spinning. With that said, I think OL has played with the bottom designs more than any other, so obviously there will be some better designs than others... and of course only the better designs will be copied by others going forward.
Given the age of OL as a company and the resources at hand, I truly believe they have evolved far more than others in this time period. They realized a long time ago there are better ways to make a HP boat than with plywood and a chopper gun. Yes Reggie really did a lot on the race course, but look at the huge resources he had behind him and the number of years he's been at it. Cig, I love them, but they seem to be followers rather than leaders when it comes to forward thinking and evolution, lets not even mention the cabins, bravo drives, and McColors!
So while I agree OL has had a few growing pains getting to where they are today, I think they are now at the point where they hands down make a superior product... and I only see the gap widening.
Just my useless 2 cents...
1) Agreed on the rigging, although I think they've improved over the last couple of years. Take a peek at a recent OL, I think you'll see there's a huge difference between their current boats and the old boats. There a contender with Cig these days in that department. Their build and construction is vastly superior to just about all.
2) From a buyers perspective looking for Merc power, I would agree. OTOH, I cant say Merc's strong-arming monopolistic tactics are good for anyone, including the boat manufacturers or buyers. I for one am happy to see someone flipping them the bird. Probably not a good place to expand on this though... Lets just say I'd love to see Illmor's/Indy's and Arneson's on more boats.
3) The jury's still out on the spin-outs IMO. I think any stepped boat that's pushed to its limits (often with inexperienced drivers) is prone to spinning. With that said, I think OL has played with the bottom designs more than any other, so obviously there will be some better designs than others... and of course only the better designs will be copied by others going forward.
Given the age of OL as a company and the resources at hand, I truly believe they have evolved far more than others in this time period. They realized a long time ago there are better ways to make a HP boat than with plywood and a chopper gun. Yes Reggie really did a lot on the race course, but look at the huge resources he had behind him and the number of years he's been at it. Cig, I love them, but they seem to be followers rather than leaders when it comes to forward thinking and evolution, lets not even mention the cabins, bravo drives, and McColors!
So while I agree OL has had a few growing pains getting to where they are today, I think they are now at the point where they hands down make a superior product... and I only see the gap widening.
Just my useless 2 cents...
02-15-2011 | 03:49 PM
#75
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 3
From: At the office.
Okay so an Outerlimits it will be then. I will call Kevin and tell him to start looking. I thought The guys at OL had a realationship with Whipple and they where going to start building motors?? The Ilmor and Indie package is very innovative and cool I would like to see more of them and the long term experience. As far as Merc goes it always helps in the resale dept. This coming from a guy who's boat does not have Merc power but I think it is one of the reason why I got the deal I did. Oh yeah and next year I will give them to Richie Zul to freshen and bump up
Just making a case for superior innovation, technology, and evolution. It doesn't matter what I think though, almost all of the new boats are really nice and I will never own a new anything.
And you wonder why I didnt want to answer in the first place! I should have just stuck with my orignal answer:
Skater!
02-15-2011 | 03:51 PM
#76
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,759
Likes: 157
From: Connecticut
Nope, no OL for me, way out of my league! Agreed the Merc power has better resale in the used market, but maybe not when you look at what the original buyer had to pay for it to begin with (percentage loss). Zul makes a great engine and I'd take his power over a HP500 anyday!
Just making a case for superior innovation, technology, and evolution. It doesn't matter what I think though, almost all of the new boats are really nice and I will never own a new anything.
And you wonder why I didnt want to answer in the first place! I should have just stuck with my orignal answer:
Skater!
Just making a case for superior innovation, technology, and evolution. It doesn't matter what I think though, almost all of the new boats are really nice and I will never own a new anything.
And you wonder why I didnt want to answer in the first place! I should have just stuck with my orignal answer:
Skater!
Hahahahaha, Im just kiddin.
................Hey, where has Sick Stinger been in all this?
02-15-2011 | 03:55 PM
#77
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,679
Likes: 3
From: At the office.
Despite what you may think, I love Cigs and I still kind of kick myself in the azz for not buying Frank's boat when I had the chance. 
02-15-2011 | 07:21 PM
#79
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,838
Likes: 928
Justin
For me it is the new cabins on the 39's that do anything for me. They are sporty looking but not real funtional. It is hard to buy a $600,000 boat and have the toilet in the middle of the cabin. Also you can only sleep 2. In my cabin you have the 2 couches you can sleep on, but compared to a AT or OL it is bare bones.
For me it is the new cabins on the 39's that do anything for me. They are sporty looking but not real funtional. It is hard to buy a $600,000 boat and have the toilet in the middle of the cabin. Also you can only sleep 2. In my cabin you have the 2 couches you can sleep on, but compared to a AT or OL it is bare bones.
although cigarette is barebones, it does serve its purpose to some extent. its just not as luxurious as the aforementioned OL. which i think we all agree on. its just something cigarette doesnt put a lot of emphasis on. i go back to my bmw qoute. if you want a more luxurious well appointed go fast boat then cigarette isnt the manufacturer to buy from. your first visits should be OL or Hustler. Even formula has a better cabin.
Just like if i want a nice luxurious smooth car. BMW will not be the first guys I see. Most likely benz or lexus. These boats and cars are geared for different needs.
i think we are saying the same thing here just in different ways.
