Re: Rules 2006
 

I'll explain it again:

The rules are there that way, because the OSS owner-members want them to be there that way.

Re: Rules 2006
 

I understand that the owners/members vote on the class rules.
Thanks that is clear.

The #6 rule is clear. Merc only, even if we made the first real Dry-sump drive and Merc made theirs after us we are not allowed to race.

My company makes gears and shafts for the #6 drives. We have since 1993. Are we they legal? Same ratio's as Merc. We also make other ratio's. There is no mention in the rules about where the parts come from.

What about bravo boats? We are making an improved version, will it be allowed in?

We are looking at making the bravo boats safer and more competative.

pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

Can you elect a tech rep or a spokesperson to respond to questions. I thought that BS was doing but that seems to have stopped.

Thanks in advance,
pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

Have you spoken to George Linder? I think he's the tech guy.

Re: Rules 2006
 

No I have not. I heard through the grapevine that he was no longer involved.

pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

I can can confirm that due to the nasty attacks of the past weeks I have decided to refrain from answering questions and making remarks on behalf of OSS. If there is a lack of answers to valid questions, then you can thank those people (and some of them don't even have a Bayliner to their name) for that.

There is no Tech Rep or Spokesperson to be elected. If the OSS Board feels it needs one, and if it finds one willing to do the job, there will be one. In the interim, no more answers.

OSS members know who to ask if they have a valid question.

In all technical matters, please contact Tech Chairman Bob Teague directly. Not via the Internet.

Re: Rules 2006
 

What do you think the answer will be If I write to a boat mag and ask a tech question on "what is the difference between a merc drysump #6ssm and a Weismann dry-sump #6ssm"

Do you think I will get an answer?

Bertel, Thank you for answering my questions the best you can, I appreciate it.

pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

Why dont you just call OSS?

Re: Rules 2006
 

Yours is a true dry sump with the oil being held in a separate dry sump tank.The merc is a make believe dry sump with the oil remaining in the lower case.Yours is obviosly more efficient thus making users of your modified mercs-faster. :eek:

Re: Rules 2006
 

not really :eek:

Re: Rules 2006
 

I would think that the Peppers team has a better handle on the relative merits between Wiesman and and Merc drive than anyone else. Since they now own one set of each drive, perhaps some back to back tests runs on their new boat, at a qualified location (e.g. X-site )...with representatives from OSS, Mercury and Weisman on hand to verify the results would settle this issue.

After the test, the OSSSCL Owners could be presented the results and a vote taken to determine if the Weisman dirves would be an approved drive.

Mike, is Peppers willing?

Re: Rules 2006
 

yes we are

Re: Rules 2006
 

I think letting my drives run on Peppers and let them race against the other drives to see side by side how we compare against the other drive manufactures just like they do with the hulls. That is the best test.

If you want to back to back test I will change the drives myself.

Then we can run my MKIII drives.



If Reggie makes a cat, can he race?

If Reggie makes a drive, can he race?

pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

We are really looking forward to how our HO525 Raylar engine stacks up against the Mercury HP525 when the AMF/Laveycraft/Raylar boat races with the OSS boys in Las Vegas on the 5th & 6th at Lake Mead. Based on some results we've seen already, it should be VERY INTERESTING!
Watch out Black & Blue, Red is coming!

Ray @ Raylar

Re: Rules 2006
 

Ray is this motor going in the SVL?

Re: Rules 2006
 

Who's seals will be on it? Merc or Innovation?

Re: Rules 2006
 

I think the motor is going into the factory 1 boat.

It is not legal for SVL at this time. And will not be legal until voted in by the class owners. At this point only Merc 525s will be allowed for the 2007 season, unless something changes during the offseason.

Ray, Do you know something I dont?

If it is going into the F-1 boat , open cockpits are not allowed to run OSS either. Unless you plan on running for fun in the lake.

Re: Rules 2006
 

I believe POPRA is running a race along with OSS. In Vegas. Probably running it in the FI boat. P4 would be my guess Smitty

Re: Rules 2006
 

that makes sense

Re: Rules 2006
 

In the recent rule change, Parity has been put aside. Slower boats are going to be allowed to make changes to their boats to make them competative.

Here is an example: Older SCL boat 525 motors bravos. Will Weismann #6 drysump drives be allowed to upgrade the boat?
pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

huh?

Re: Rules 2006
 

Bruce,
Hasn't there been discussion among some of the SVL owners/racers about the Innovation/GM Vortec engine being allowed again in 2007 and beyond?

Re: Rules 2006
 

no , this is the last year for vortecs nothing has changed

Re: Rules 2006
 

Has there even been any discussion this year of keeping the Vortecs?

Re: Rules 2006
 

Mike

There have been no discussions what so ever, regarding Vortecs for the 07 season.

The team owners have unanimously voted to eliminate them after 06 and unless Im told otherwise, we will follow that plan.

Are you planning on buying a Vee Lite? If so, I understand your concerns. If you are seriously considering becoming a team owner, feel free to speak to Willy or Eric. Im sure they will be glad to discuss this with you.

Thanks

Re: Rules 2006
 

As a manufacturer who sells just about everything we can make, my feelings are not hurt and I really don't care if OSS embraces the 496 or not. (Please don't call the 496 a Vortec That program should have died before it got started!)
GMC and GM really don't care about the 496 or racing for that matter, they are to busy just trying to survive!
Just some thoughts and ideas here for you racers to really consider? The most important thing in any racing program is SPECTATORS who are interested users of the products!! Period!!
No racing organization has ever survived long term on just the egos and racing deeds of its members!! Just realize that 7 out of 10 high performance boats that splashes for its new owners every week in this country for sale here in the USA or Worldwide is equipped with a 496! To not make a place for this motor in any high performance offshore hull type racing is a very shortsided and a growth limiting move. Remember that your support dollars come from your interested sponsors and spectators and followers who use this motor on a wide spread basis. Let these users know that their powerplant is racing and can be raced in sanctioned classes and events will insure that the financial stability and racing team growth that makes any racing organization viable and sustained on a long term basis. Just think smarter, not Harder here!

Ray @ Raylar

Re: Rules 2006
 

Ray....

If the Racers choose to run the 525efi, dont fault them. We are not forced to run Mercury only, we elect to. I understand you have a product that you would like to sell. It appears to be a very nice product. However, I feel comfortable running a Merc. We can easily tech them. And we have on site support which in my opinion, is second to none. The more motors we have, the harder it is to tech them and keep everyone honest.

I respect your input, but I dont think that we will be entertaining any new motor packages in the near future.

Re: Rules 2006
 

Ray what would your plan be to get the merc's out and the 496 in? Im all ears for suggestions. Could you provide better race support and better pricing? SVL is always willing to listen to new ideas and ways to better the sport but you would have to first better what we already have by quiet a bit to get people to want to change. Remember we only want 1 motor for SVL. Think in terms of free to the racers to promote your new product and have support. Its a tall task to get people to change when they are happy with what they have.
MD

Re: Rules 2006
 

:rolleyes:

Re: Rules 2006
 

My apologies Ray. I didn't realize you invented the 8.1.
As for the GM Vortec Offshore Racing program, GM made a huge investment in the sport of offshore racing, the teams that raced their products, and the fans that enjoyed thier involvement. Then there was the promotional support, parts support, media training, TV exposure, Not to mention the hospitality shown to ALL the race teams, their families and all those racing fans that came to their event tents, booths and displays.
However, If you feel you've improved the 8.1, 496, or whatever you would like to call it, as Randy said, I'm all ears. I love the engine platform, and am all for a less expensive power that can be tech inspected and go a full season.

Re: Rules 2006
 

SCL class.

Will it be possible to update the old peppers to give a new life as per the new rules adjustment.

Here is an example : Innovation 500efi / Weismann 4-speed transmissions / Weismann #6ssm dry-sump drives.

This would clear out George and Mikes garage. I am sure they are happy yo sit on the stuff. It is nothing that was not in the boat in the past.

pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

Come on Pat you are beating a dead horse here!!! They havent had those drives on that boat in almost 10 years. They ran IMCOs for the last several years that they've ran the OLD 36. I am sure they could have sold that stuff 10 times over if they really wanted to, but I've never seen it advertised anywere. If you want to get something allowed in OSS you are going to have to get it through a whole class vote first. So you need to come up with something that EVERYONE in a class must feel that they must have. I know you guys have mead some VERY TRICK stuff for many years but in this day and age of spec raging classes not everyone wants to spend money like the Sheiks and the Rum makers........

Re: Rules 2006
 

oh its advertised ryan, we are selling everything.

Re: Rules 2006
 

Ryan,
The Weismann dry-sump #6ssm has been banned for 10 years now. We can talk about the 17 other products that we have done that are out too.

I am not after the whole class just a few boats to show how much better our product is than my competition.

We have been systematically removed from the rules by a select few.

So far there has been no good answers if any answers to my questions why we are not allowed to race.

Why don't you start a trend by answering some of these questions?

pat W

Re: Rules 2006
 

Bob Teague is the OSS tech. director he would be the person to ask and the one to start with to get you products approved.

Teague @earthlink.net

Re: Rules 2006
 

I certainly did not mean for my comments to suggest that we are the inventors or only innovators of the 496 engine platform. We simply offer what we believe are real advances to this engine platform as did many before us to bring the GM Gen 5 - 6 engines to their current level of aftermarket advances which Mercury uses to provide their racing motors.
I also realize that GM did a good job of supporting their 496 Vortec program and it was a loss for the performance offshore racing community when this program met its end due to some mis-steps by a few.
All I am saying here and in support of any of the manufacturers or engine and drive people in the industry, is that the sport will always be healthier and garner more support among its sponsors and fans when there are more choices for engine and drive combinations as well as hulls. I think I can realize and understand why OSS has made its rules and changes up to this point in its efforts to stabilize its racing program and remain successful. In no way would I want to see Mercury out and someone else in, thats the whole point, get more in to join Mercury and really grow the sponsors and participating teams as well as fan support thru parallel product usage. where would Nascar be today if the teams only used Chevrolet cars and engines??
As for free engine programs, your not going to see Raylar, Mercury or others with that hat on! "Racing costs money, how much do you wan't to race!"
The real point here is just to make the rules and participation by all sponsors user friendly not some sort of gauntlet to run.
You guys do a great job of racing and your teams an individuals are a great bunch of people and deserve a great deal of credit and respect for their sometimes selfless contributions to the sport of offshore racing.

Regards,

Ray @ Raylar

Re: Rules 2006
 

Just thinking out loud here but I was wondering how much longer the Merc HP525 will be around. If you think about it this engine is due to be deleted based on past history. The HP500 carb ran from around 1994-99, HP500EFI from 1999-2002 and now the HP525 from 2002 till? See the pattern here....it's a run of around 4-5 years. Maybe Mercury Racing will bring out a HP555. The 525 is already just about making the power and it's old technology so with a few minor tweaks we could see a very reliable HP555.
Thoughts?

Re: Rules 2006
 

This is what P-Class rules were designed for...companies like Raylar, Weismann Drives and so forth. I truly believe that the other classes need to run on products that support the sancationing body with the purse payout, growth marketing and such.
So back to my other thoughts ... is Mercury stepping up and helping this way? If the other classes are going to run Mercury only products then you all really need to look at how much longer the HP525 will be around. It's due for a change and it would be detrimental to any class to approve this engine and have racers buy stock into it and then Mercury discountinue it and then the class is obsolete...history will repeat itself.

Re: Rules 2006
 

I gotta chime in here because this thread contains comments from a group of very bright and sophisticated members of OSO, I will go out on a limb and make a post even though you Guys are smarter them I am.

Wimpster ("Rik") and Pat W. are pretty much in line but I think Wimpster has accepted the environment for what it is in terms of preventing, or limiting competative products in "private" racing organizations. Pat's stuff works, so does Rik's stuff for sure, maybe better than the "standard" stuff. There is nothing new about a little "payola" to get a Mfg's product endorsed by a Sanctioning Body, have you guys (Pat and Rik) extended that "olive branch" yet?

As for Fever Mike who spends a lot of time keeping up on issues, I am a little confused by the comment that the 525 should be eliminated because it is time for a change?, almost everyone is the "spec" classes owns at least a few of these and they run great, why would we arbitrarily change it?.

Gordo, (miss you man), bring back the Vortec's???, holy crap, isnt that the big complaint everyone has had for years, that just when everyone has make a change and bought new equipment and seems to be happy with he equipment, the sanctioning bodies make a sweeping change and piss everyone off because of additional costs.

Everyone running the exact same boat, with the exact same equipment... Hummmmm... probably an unrealistic goal, but that sure would bring out the talent wouldn't it?, if you won a race you could really pound your chest.

I think OSS is on the right track as far as Parity, yeah, they are Merc proponents, yeah, there is paola, but is that anything new or really all that bad??.

Great thread though, everyone calm, cool and collected and making great points.

Gregg Reichman

Re: Rules 2006
 

I think that Rik and I would not mind a little payola from the sanctioning body for the loss of sales and customers. :D

If the rules were justified I could see why we are banned, but they are not. I cannot get an answer for even a basic question.

It is a one horse race right now and if that horse goes away what will they do?

pat W