The Facts
07-22-2006, 09:48 PM
#12
Registered
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Prospect, KY
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The Facts
Here is what we have learned so far:
Smitty’s engines have been rebuilt and “decked” (As understand it, this means the heads and/or engine block have been machined down to compensate for warping or other irregularities). By removing this material, there was a resulting increase in compression ratio. Innovation discovered this when the engines where sent to them for sealing. Innovation was instructed to grind-out material from the combustion chambers to compensate for the increased compression ratio.
My questions are:
I believe that although Smitty’s engines had been worked before they arrived at Innovation, every effort was taken by Dave Stiff and his fine crew to assure they fell into the performance parameters of the Mercury 525. I also believe that this is nothing more than a smear campaign instigated by Mercury and condoned by OSS to further the respective agendas of each.
As for David Knight and Fountain, it is the general perception that Fountain has been, if not cheating, at the very least working in the gray areas of the rules for a long time. Fountain has an image problem, and as a publicly traded company, its time for some damage control. How should they do this? Endorse every suggested rule change that they have fought for the past three years. They should support the idea of publicly posting of the dyno sheets of every sealed racing motor so everyone can see who has how much power and torque. Support the “Race ECM” program where each team puts a new ECM on the trailer and draws their ECM from the pool before each race. Support the one ratio drive rule for SSM6 drives. Support…and initiate every idea that would remove the perception that Fountain is cheating.
Fountain builds one heck of a boat and has the best factory racing support program in the sport. They also field 80% of the V-bottom boats competing in Offshore. Numbers alone give them the advantage to be on the podium every race.
Sorry Smitty, it looks to me that you just got caught in the middle of a classic political and corporate mud slinging campaign. Its not personal…its Offshore racing.
Ken Doyle
Smitty’s engines have been rebuilt and “decked” (As understand it, this means the heads and/or engine block have been machined down to compensate for warping or other irregularities). By removing this material, there was a resulting increase in compression ratio. Innovation discovered this when the engines where sent to them for sealing. Innovation was instructed to grind-out material from the combustion chambers to compensate for the increased compression ratio.
My questions are:
1.) Who instructed Innovation to grind out the combustion chambers?
2.) Wouldn’t grinding the combustion chambers require a change in the intake runners to compensate for the change from the original design of the combustion chamber in order to keep the engine in spec?
3.) Did any of these changes give the engines more horsepower or more torque?
4.) Where any horsepower/torque changes any greater than the difference between a stock Mercury 525 and a Mercury 525 rebuilt by Mercury?
5.) When Mercury rebuilds a 525, what do they do to compensate for increased compression ratio when an engine is “decked”?
Aside from these questions, it occurs to me that it is quite possible that although there have been have modifications to Smitty’s engines, and Innovation tested and sealed the engines, it is quite possible that these changes did not give him a competitive advantage. So, who would benefit from his disqualification? The obvious answer is Mercury and OSS for the following reasons: 2.) Wouldn’t grinding the combustion chambers require a change in the intake runners to compensate for the change from the original design of the combustion chamber in order to keep the engine in spec?
3.) Did any of these changes give the engines more horsepower or more torque?
4.) Where any horsepower/torque changes any greater than the difference between a stock Mercury 525 and a Mercury 525 rebuilt by Mercury?
5.) When Mercury rebuilds a 525, what do they do to compensate for increased compression ratio when an engine is “decked”?
1.) Disqualification for all previous races and the return of prize money puts cash back into the coffers of the sanctioning body, who is reportedly already financially strapped.
2.) Disqualification will cast doubt on the integrity of Innovation, a company who builds marine engines in competition with Mercury.
3.) Disqualification will cast doubt on Fountain Powerboats, a company who is the primary Sponsor of SBI/APBA, a rival racing organization who uses Innovation as their primary engine inspection and sealing source.
4.) Disqualification enhances the perception that OSS inspections are thorough and unbiased when the inspection was actually performed by Mercury, who has a vested interest in assuring the engines do not pass inspection.
5.) Disqualification will result in the sale of at least two additional new engine packages during a time when marine engine sales are at the lowest they have been in the past twenty years.
6.) Disqualification will discredit any future suggestions that engine inspection and sealing be performed by anyone other than Mercury.
7.) Disqualification will ensure that Mercury will benefit through increased sales of parts and services from future racing engine repairs and rebuilds.
8.) Disqualification solidifies Mercury’s position as sole source provider of new engines and supplier of repair services.
9.) Disqualification enhances the perception that Fountain boats win by cheating and all World Speed Records, National Championship, and World Championship Titles previously won by teams running Fountain boats are questioned as to their validity. In doing this, it undermines the sanctioning bodies from whom these titles where awarded…SBI and APBA…and legitimizes the very same titles awarded by OSS.
As for Innovation, my experience has been that they have always been fair and up front with every racer they have come in contact with. I am disheartened to see negative posts by other racers who only a few days ago where singing praises about Innovation. Where are your loyalties and of honor? 2.) Disqualification will cast doubt on the integrity of Innovation, a company who builds marine engines in competition with Mercury.
3.) Disqualification will cast doubt on Fountain Powerboats, a company who is the primary Sponsor of SBI/APBA, a rival racing organization who uses Innovation as their primary engine inspection and sealing source.
4.) Disqualification enhances the perception that OSS inspections are thorough and unbiased when the inspection was actually performed by Mercury, who has a vested interest in assuring the engines do not pass inspection.
5.) Disqualification will result in the sale of at least two additional new engine packages during a time when marine engine sales are at the lowest they have been in the past twenty years.
6.) Disqualification will discredit any future suggestions that engine inspection and sealing be performed by anyone other than Mercury.
7.) Disqualification will ensure that Mercury will benefit through increased sales of parts and services from future racing engine repairs and rebuilds.
8.) Disqualification solidifies Mercury’s position as sole source provider of new engines and supplier of repair services.
9.) Disqualification enhances the perception that Fountain boats win by cheating and all World Speed Records, National Championship, and World Championship Titles previously won by teams running Fountain boats are questioned as to their validity. In doing this, it undermines the sanctioning bodies from whom these titles where awarded…SBI and APBA…and legitimizes the very same titles awarded by OSS.
I believe that although Smitty’s engines had been worked before they arrived at Innovation, every effort was taken by Dave Stiff and his fine crew to assure they fell into the performance parameters of the Mercury 525. I also believe that this is nothing more than a smear campaign instigated by Mercury and condoned by OSS to further the respective agendas of each.
As for David Knight and Fountain, it is the general perception that Fountain has been, if not cheating, at the very least working in the gray areas of the rules for a long time. Fountain has an image problem, and as a publicly traded company, its time for some damage control. How should they do this? Endorse every suggested rule change that they have fought for the past three years. They should support the idea of publicly posting of the dyno sheets of every sealed racing motor so everyone can see who has how much power and torque. Support the “Race ECM” program where each team puts a new ECM on the trailer and draws their ECM from the pool before each race. Support the one ratio drive rule for SSM6 drives. Support…and initiate every idea that would remove the perception that Fountain is cheating.
Fountain builds one heck of a boat and has the best factory racing support program in the sport. They also field 80% of the V-bottom boats competing in Offshore. Numbers alone give them the advantage to be on the podium every race.
Sorry Smitty, it looks to me that you just got caught in the middle of a classic political and corporate mud slinging campaign. Its not personal…its Offshore racing.
Ken Doyle
07-22-2006, 10:04 PM
#13
Registered
Re: The Facts
Before anyone starts bashing Ken, I ask that you search his past posts. His few posts have always been well thought out, to the point, and without falling into the trap of name-calling and pettiness.
Read his post with an open mind again please.
Read his post with an open mind again please.
Last edited by Phantom1; 07-22-2006 at 10:07 PM.
07-22-2006, 10:17 PM
#14
Enjoy the show
VIP Member
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Joisey Shore
Posts: 10,353
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The Facts
Ken, as always a very balanced and level headed view.
I'm told that Merc doesn't deck the heads, they always install new ones during a rebuild of a race motor. There in lies the main difference.
I'm told that Merc doesn't deck the heads, they always install new ones during a rebuild of a race motor. There in lies the main difference.
07-22-2006, 10:51 PM
#15
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The Facts
Ken, the only thing in my mind that I am sure of right now is, Yes we had a 10 hp advantage in power. According to merc dyno sheets. Was that responsible for our domination in OSS? No. The 38 Fountain is an unbelievable boat. They say it is not a rough water boat? Non sense. My son ran that boat too the edge and beyond. Best boat I have ever been in. Were we illegal? Yes by OSS standards. Did the crime deserve the penalty? To be determined. A lot of things have come to light in the past two days. I will go to Mercury to survey my motors, and make a determination at that point. In any case. We are done. Going back to have some fun with the Boyz. Smitty
07-23-2006, 12:58 AM
#16
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nowhere, USA
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The Facts
I dont get it all these people that offered a lending hand to get that boat back racing. Is there something else going on here or what? I think it is a bad decision to take such a good race team and just quit. I hope you rethink your decision.
07-23-2006, 02:05 AM
#17
Registered
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: racing capitol of the world
Posts: 3,392
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
3 Posts
Re: The Facts
Sorry To Lose You Smitty. You Guys Are Like Family. Im Gonna Miss Boomer At The Races, Always Supporting Me And Dad At Every Race. You Guy, Hopefully Will Be Back Soon. Dont Give Up The Fight Bro
07-23-2006, 02:09 AM
#18
Registered
Re: The Facts
OLDRACEFAN
let me explain alittle to u
in the last 3 years i built not only a best friend relationship with anthony but like a 2nd father relationship with smitty.
i was at the shop yesterday for 4 hours when all the phone calls were going on- i never seen smitty this upset and out of it- and anthony is in chicago at the poker run and is just done and fed up with the sport.
they spent tons of hours-- tons of money-- time away from there families and tons of stress.
the way it was explained to me by anthony was its like work at an oss race not to much relaxin but a hell of a time after the races- testing all day saturday sleeping saturday night and trying to pick the right set up for sunday.
there not giving up as a team but there taking a break- they spent tons of money on buying the boat- got use to it last year---- and this winter they busted there asses working on the boat and made it a hell of alot faster than last year-- cause of the way anthony set up the boat
They are out of the national points chace and all there money they won that was going to pay off all the bills they put into the boat they have to give it back.
the boat is f$cking fast and they know how to set it up and they dont sandbag they run the **** out of it at all times----- yes they had people putting the money up to get them rebuilt even though smitty probally wouldnt take it-
they arent getting the money from the races they won they spent tons in travelling and they are out of the points race-- so yy rush back in...
Let them woop up on old PURPLE in st clair
they won the first three got teched the **** out of for about 4 hours after each race caused about 15 grand of damage to the boat in canada and still got teched for hours after finishing 3rd place------- Not finding nothing everything was fine. smitty then haven to spend 2500 on sending the motors over night to mercury and thinking they were spec and than all this happeneing
Let it be-- Let him and anthony relax get back in the old boat in st clair whoop it up alittle have alittle fun relax for the weekend run opa and go from there
They will be back out one day to show everyone what they got BUT FOR NOW LETS JUST LET THEM RELAX
LOVE U GUYS
DUKES
let me explain alittle to u
in the last 3 years i built not only a best friend relationship with anthony but like a 2nd father relationship with smitty.
i was at the shop yesterday for 4 hours when all the phone calls were going on- i never seen smitty this upset and out of it- and anthony is in chicago at the poker run and is just done and fed up with the sport.
they spent tons of hours-- tons of money-- time away from there families and tons of stress.
the way it was explained to me by anthony was its like work at an oss race not to much relaxin but a hell of a time after the races- testing all day saturday sleeping saturday night and trying to pick the right set up for sunday.
there not giving up as a team but there taking a break- they spent tons of money on buying the boat- got use to it last year---- and this winter they busted there asses working on the boat and made it a hell of alot faster than last year-- cause of the way anthony set up the boat
They are out of the national points chace and all there money they won that was going to pay off all the bills they put into the boat they have to give it back.
the boat is f$cking fast and they know how to set it up and they dont sandbag they run the **** out of it at all times----- yes they had people putting the money up to get them rebuilt even though smitty probally wouldnt take it-
they arent getting the money from the races they won they spent tons in travelling and they are out of the points race-- so yy rush back in...
Let them woop up on old PURPLE in st clair
they won the first three got teched the **** out of for about 4 hours after each race caused about 15 grand of damage to the boat in canada and still got teched for hours after finishing 3rd place------- Not finding nothing everything was fine. smitty then haven to spend 2500 on sending the motors over night to mercury and thinking they were spec and than all this happeneing
Let it be-- Let him and anthony relax get back in the old boat in st clair whoop it up alittle have alittle fun relax for the weekend run opa and go from there
They will be back out one day to show everyone what they got BUT FOR NOW LETS JUST LET THEM RELAX
LOVE U GUYS
DUKES
Last edited by chriscarbone; 07-23-2006 at 02:12 AM.
07-23-2006, 02:43 AM
#19
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: https://t.me/pump_upp
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: The Facts
Chris you could not of put it any better 
I'm glad there still coming to St Clair. Who cares what boat it is. Racing is supposed to be fun right?
It will all pan out in time, one door closes another always opens.
I'm glad there still coming to St Clair. Who cares what boat it is. Racing is supposed to be fun right?
It will all pan out in time, one door closes another always opens.
07-23-2006, 08:58 AM
#20
Registered
Re: The Facts
Originally Posted by chriscarbone
OLDRACEFAN
let me explain alittle to u
in the last 3 years i built not only a best friend relationship with anthony but like a 2nd father relationship with smitty.
i was at the shop yesterday for 4 hours when all the phone calls were going on- i never seen smitty this upset and out of it- and anthony is in chicago at the poker run and is just done and fed up with the sport.
they spent tons of hours-- tons of money-- time away from there families and tons of stress.
the way it was explained to me by anthony was its like work at an oss race not to much relaxin but a hell of a time after the races- testing all day saturday sleeping saturday night and trying to pick the right set up for sunday.
there not giving up as a team but there taking a break- they spent tons of money on buying the boat- got use to it last year---- and this winter they busted there asses working on the boat and made it a hell of alot faster than last year-- cause of the way anthony set up the boat
They are out of the national points chace and all there money they won that was going to pay off all the bills they put into the boat they have to give it back.
the boat is f$cking fast and they know how to set it up and they dont sandbag they run the **** out of it at all times----- yes they had people putting the money up to get them rebuilt even though smitty probally wouldnt take it-
they arent getting the money from the races they won they spent tons in travelling and they are out of the points race-- so yy rush back in...
Let them woop up on old PURPLE in st clair
they won the first three got teched the **** out of for about 4 hours after each race caused about 15 grand of damage to the boat in canada and still got teched for hours after finishing 3rd place------- Not finding nothing everything was fine. smitty then haven to spend 2500 on sending the motors over night to mercury and thinking they were spec and than all this happeneing
Let it be-- Let him and anthony relax get back in the old boat in st clair whoop it up alittle have alittle fun relax for the weekend run opa and go from there
They will be back out one day to show everyone what they got BUT FOR NOW LETS JUST LET THEM RELAX
LOVE U GUYS
DUKES
let me explain alittle to u
in the last 3 years i built not only a best friend relationship with anthony but like a 2nd father relationship with smitty.
i was at the shop yesterday for 4 hours when all the phone calls were going on- i never seen smitty this upset and out of it- and anthony is in chicago at the poker run and is just done and fed up with the sport.
they spent tons of hours-- tons of money-- time away from there families and tons of stress.
the way it was explained to me by anthony was its like work at an oss race not to much relaxin but a hell of a time after the races- testing all day saturday sleeping saturday night and trying to pick the right set up for sunday.
there not giving up as a team but there taking a break- they spent tons of money on buying the boat- got use to it last year---- and this winter they busted there asses working on the boat and made it a hell of alot faster than last year-- cause of the way anthony set up the boat
They are out of the national points chace and all there money they won that was going to pay off all the bills they put into the boat they have to give it back.
the boat is f$cking fast and they know how to set it up and they dont sandbag they run the **** out of it at all times----- yes they had people putting the money up to get them rebuilt even though smitty probally wouldnt take it-
they arent getting the money from the races they won they spent tons in travelling and they are out of the points race-- so yy rush back in...
Let them woop up on old PURPLE in st clair
they won the first three got teched the **** out of for about 4 hours after each race caused about 15 grand of damage to the boat in canada and still got teched for hours after finishing 3rd place------- Not finding nothing everything was fine. smitty then haven to spend 2500 on sending the motors over night to mercury and thinking they were spec and than all this happeneing
Let it be-- Let him and anthony relax get back in the old boat in st clair whoop it up alittle have alittle fun relax for the weekend run opa and go from there
They will be back out one day to show everyone what they got BUT FOR NOW LETS JUST LET THEM RELAX
LOVE U GUYS
DUKES
That is part of the point that I have been trying to make. An OSS Inspector told Smitty to go fuk himself at a recent race, and Smitty posted here that "that has never happened to him before and it will never happen again." Smitty and Anthony have had a target on their back all year and were forced to endure, what sounds like to me, excessive inspection demands. My personal opinion is that the inspectors were not going to stop until they found something, whether small or big.
Please read Ken Doyle's post above again.
