Randy, here is the present count on boats P1 4 Boats P2 5 boats P3 10 Boats P4 11 Boats P5 12 Boats. Since we announced the Atlantic City Race, I have recieved a lot of calls from boats in that area looking to race. I am not saying all these boats will run all the races, but there are others showing interest. Keep on postin Boyz you are bringing them out. Ed

I really like the idea of the GPS on board. I wouldn't DQ a guy that broke out, I'd give him a one minute penilty if he broke out by under 1mph, 2 min for 2mph and 3 for 3. 3.1mph over gets DQed.

I think the idea of the GPS brings in real race speed conditions and not best possible speed. APBA is currently wrestling with these same issues and I know Smitty has chosen the run with this one and he is in contact with Steve M at APBA to see if we can't all use the same rules to encourage cross racing.

Comments and thoughts on this complex subject is appreciated.
But please, no more classes. Keeping it to 5 classes is key.

Ron,

What would you do if a boat was GPS'd just a fraction under the break out speed in other than ideal conditions? You wouldn't be measuring a boat's top speed, but instead its top speed dependent on water condition. Unless there is a formula for handicapping allowable speeds based on water conditions, the GPS concept will not adequately address the problem of determining which boats are too fast for their class.

Rob, the idea is to us a calculation of prop size and pitch plus the lower unit gear ratio to know the boats top speed. This math can be accurate to within a few MPH.

No race is ever run under ideal conditions and lap speeds tend to be at least 5mph below a boats top speed.

Got any ideas? love to hear em.

We own some racing Greyhounds, and they are classified in a way that might be (and this is a stretch) used and/or adapted for P classes. I have taken the liberty of changing the format somewhat, due to the limited number of boat races per year vs. dog races per year. . .

Use whatever method you like to determine what the boats starting class might be, including Randy's idea to start rookies in P5.

If you win a race, with lets say 3 or more boats in the class, you would automatically be moved up one class for the next race.

You would then race in that class until either:

1) you win again, and move up another class
or
2) you do not place (1st, 2nd, or 3rd) for 2 consecutive races

So in effect, you will have boats moving both up and down, creating a different dynamic for each race. It would be much more difficult for a boat to dominate, given it would eventually move to a class where it would most likely not win.

Something to think about, anyway.

Ron,

Prop calculation works great for estimating top speeds (provided the inputs are valid), and it is a good tool to help place boats in the proper class. It should definitely be used at the race sites. But this method is not completely reliable since some boat owners will not provide accurate info (such as rpm). Also, it gets complicated for props that have been modified and are not the exact pitch stamped on the hub. And, prop slip can be substantially different from hull to hull (even from the same builder), making it difficult to plug an accurate number into the equation. Here are some ideas that I have:

1. I would recommend that a prop inspection be instituted on race day so that it can be verified that a team is using the same prop size used in the prop calculator. Maybe it would be practical to have someone inspect the props of boats that place when they are retrieved immediately following the race. For example, most P5 teams should be running 23" pitch props (25" as the absolute maximum) with a 1.5 drive ratio. Otherwise, the boat would have to be exceeding 15% slip, which should not be happening on a performance boat. I'd be willing to bet that 27" props are the choice of most P5 teams on race day.

2. Decide which is more important:
- deck to deck racing, with a number of rules, or
- a few competitive boats, and minimal rules

The reason I pose this question is because I witnessed much closer racing in divisional racing before the P classes started. Don't get me wrong, the P class concept is a great idea for allowing anyone to race, anywhere, without having to worry about different classifications from race site to race site. But it's just impossible to make everyone happy (competitive) with essentially a one-rule system - "if your boat can go this fast, you are in this class."

I would argue that without getting too complicated, the system would be much improved if the important factors that determine offshore performance are agreed upon. In no particular order, I suggest that hull configuration, length, power, and top speed (ideal conditions) all figure into the equation.

just browsing,

good points. but, if you force a legitimately classified boat to move up in class, he becomes 10 mph slower than the competition. if you have to wait 2 consecutive races to go back down in class... well the season would probably be over. i don't think teams who follow the rules should be penalized for being good. the penalty of moving up should be for teams that were'nt classified properly in the first place, or find "extra" mph later in the season. your greyhounds move up in class with the potential for bigger purses, but with a boat there would not be much incentive to win and then be outclassed the next two races. racers might decide to sit out the next race, or finish 2nd all the time.

Ron,

Very true. If you ran a perfect race, in ideal conditions, you'd be averaging lap speeds at least 5 mph slower than your top speed, and even slower on short courses or those with lots of turns. Throw in a little chop, and you can probably predict the degree to which the lap speeds will decrease. When a race course is accurately measured, and first lap 'irregularities' are adjusted for, the average lap speeds would be, in my opinion, much more useful than any GPS or radared top speed could ever be. The 'sandbagger' who never breaks out but manages to maintain his top speed through the turns would raise suspicion in a radar/GPS and lap speed regulated course.