I agree keep the old GPS's to keep cost down.... $900 is a lot for us peps in Kansas to!!

I agree align the classes, its too hard to explain to people the different class speeds in all of organizations. We have talked of this before and with the 3 years being up, now is the chance.

setup
 

i'm not trying to point the finger but if you break it your own fault. we all know the top speed allowed and you just need to work on your setup to that speed. i know some guys that have to look at the speedo and pull back and thats their way of setting the boat up. its probably not the the best way but they are risking breaking out.

i cant see why you cant just figure out prop and rev limiter to get as close to top speed with out going over??

to the prez of OPA and other in class 100 -

as for my class (100) what about changing the top speed to 117 mph. this would be the same as sbi and i could run the same setup ??

These are the SBI Speeds..

• Class #6 70 MPH (Class #6 N/A in SBI racing)
• Class #5 72 MPH
• Class #4 82 MPH
• Class #3 92 MPH
• Class #2 102 MPH
• Class #1 117 MPH

sbi
 

rick i was not asking or talking about any other class other than class 100.

Oh... I was asking if all the class would be willing to align there speeds with SBI.

I'm cool either way

Pros: Class unity that may encourage some SBI teams to come up north and race.

Cons: I just bought new props..

Im my opinion only. The reason its so hard to set up a boat to a class is the water conditions we race in. Your perfect set up prop in the bay on a calm day with no chop will put you over if you leave the dock and find yourself in a 2 foot chop on race day. The same set up will produce aprox. a 2-3 MPH greater speed. So to think its as easy as picking a prop on your rev limiter and you wont break out forget it. Class 5 boats are all capable of 80MPH or darn close. It would make it a lot closer to wide open throttle racing for this class. It would really make the teams run at WOT in the ocean. With a max of 30 feet it would be hard to get much more than 80 MPH out of that size boat and have reliable power to finish. Many teams already have in excess of 600hp.
Why would a canopy boat in class 5 have more of an advantage? In my opinion, its a disadvantage as long as top speed would still be at 80 mph. It takes at least double the team work and trust factor to get that puppy around the course." YOU CANT SEE" and there is that split second lost here and there communicating in the turns. Yes it is safer but definitly not faster! Most run a higher X dimension to achieve the speeds they get in spec racing but it comes at a high cost of control. A open cockpit Extreme has the same speed as a canopy Extreme with the same power so whats the difference.
Im all about growing the class and having it as fair as passable with good competition for all in the class. Things are going to be tight next year and getting a full class of boats 10-15 will be hard. Does class 5 want more competition?
MD

Randy, the only reason I feel that canopy boat should not be allowed to run with open boat in class 5 is the well know fact that the canopy boats are much safer, and in big water there would be a huge advantage over a open boat less than 30' in length. Ok i will spell it out (your ba//s get much bigger in a canopy) In the upper classes this is not as much of a advantage because they are running against boats a lot larger than 30'.

In my opinion only.

setup
 

the canopy boats would be definately safer and would let those in the canopy boats possible run over their heads since they would feel safer

yes i understand that with a tail wind or some chop the boat will run faster. hence this is why you would test more than one time on the "perfect" day and have a few setups for different kinda of water.

That is easy to think, but having been around various forms of racing since I was about 4 years old, once you are off the forum, on the course and the adrenalin starts pumping, their are only 2 things that dictate how fast you are really going to go...

1. is how fast you need to go to keep the guy behind you, behind you

and/or

2. how fast you have to go to get in front of the guy infront of you

Class 1 is 112 MPH,,,and your new props will not help you when i come up .LOL:grinser010:

Why change our speeds for 8-10 SBI boats? Most will not come to an OPA event just because the speeds are the same. Our speeds are much more logical. As far as breaking out, it is good. It keeps everyone on top of their game. I would bet that everyone, except Two Trick Rick, can run .10 mph over their number. If not you are leaving something on the table.

As a Class 5 owner I would not want to see the speed change. It is just more investment in props and time. Build your boat for the class not the class for the boat.

HEY, I seen 88 gps speeds before (granted that was on the trailer down I-75.

But your probably right about changing the speeds Dean, why would a bunch a professional SBI racers want to come up and get the ass handed to them by a bunch of back woods northern boyz anyways..:eek:

The penalty now is last place points. In class 5 you will not get a trophy or money because there will be 10 to 12 boats placing in front of you.

Hey Randy, you always have new ideas on how offshore racing should be, my question is why don't you make your own org and make the rules the way you see they should work. It could be called Randy's Way racing org. We all agree that none of this is perfect but very close. OPA has done a great job on makeing it as fair racing as possible. OSS and SBI have also done their verisons of what they seam to be fair. In turn it gives the teams, owners and racers a choice of what they see as fair. I don't know what the answer is but it appears to me that OPA has the largest boat count at most of there events. That kind of says alot. Changing things every year cost money and let's face it, there is not that much return on the game. I hope that one day we can flip on the TV and see something like the NASCAR of boat racing on the weekend sports channels almost every weekend. As it has been asked many times before, can't all the heads just sit down and make this a big sport with one name.
Untill then we all can choose what flag we want to race under but can't see it on tv or follow who is the real world champ.

Just my .02:party-smiley-004:

Why change our speeds for 8-10 SBI boats? Most will not come to an OPA event just because the speeds are the same. Our speeds are much more logical. As far as breaking out, it is good. It keeps everyone on top of their game. I would bet that everyone, except Two Trick Rick, can run .10 mph over their number. If not you are leaving something on the table.



I was thinking the same thing.

I also think penalty for breaking out should be stiffer. 50 Points or last place points whichever is less.

Rich

But if your class has 3 or 4 boats, you still get pretty good points.

Just a thought.

If you hand it to me ,,,,does that mean i can leave my boat down here ???????? LOL:grinser010:

Randy, I have race door to door next to you (2') in turns probably more than anyone and never hesitated for one second, I wouldn't wont to be in the same scenario with you in the SVL, that whole "cant see" thing.

Scott I know you hate my ideas and the way i think and I am ok with that. Have you ever wondered where the current class rules came from? Mark Henderson and myself brought it up to OPA and they agreed it looked good and adopted it. We now have a good class 6 fleet and the largest class 5 fleet ever. Because "change" . Did you ever wonder why you dont pay any reg. fees at a race? Well back when Kirt B was running the Org. at a annual meeting I asked how many teams would prefer not paying entry fees and receive less purse. 90% of the racers agreed no entry fee. OPA listened to the racers and at Camden the first time ever there was a race with no entry fee and it was a hugh reason so many teams started coming back out. Trust me there are plenty more ideas that I have posted that have bettered the sport and its not for my team but for the racers in general.
I have another idea, how about each and every team comes up with just one idea they think could better the sport in OPA for 09. :eek:

If it aint broke dont fix it! Every body has there own ideas about how things should be done and the only time they all make sense is when every one comes together and works out whats best for the majority. What OPA has done in my opinion is just that. UNITED WE RACE!

Randy,
I like that "one idea" per team thing. My idea wouldn't change any rules. My idea: lets race on Saturday, party like hell Saturday night, travel home Sunday. No rule change here. Many people can get Friday off easier than Monday. What do you think.
By the way Randy, your one idea per team thing is one of your better ideas!!!
Bob G

Guy's Im ok with what you decide on for class 5. If we like it the way it is then lets leave it. If you all feel some change can make the class bigger and better then lets discuss it.
MD

This is all good. I know there are a lot of you who want to see no changes. That is great. it means all is well. But, there is always some fine tuning that can only help. OPA is absolutely a racers organization. We will always do what is right for the teams. No one here should be criticized for your ideas. You never know where the next Brain storm will come from. Besides the boards have been a little quite lately. Have at it. Smitty

Class 5 should name their high points trophy "The Reiter Cup"

Rich

I do like the idea of a Saturday race and big party that night for the awards. And I agree with Smitty that there will always be some fine tuning to be done, but why not make OSS follow OPA rules or OPA follow SBI rules, etc...........I also agree with you Randy that there has been some good ideas from you.
Bottom line is I am all for UNITED WE RACE. And support the OPA rules. Why not go with the org that has the most boats and build on that. I would love to see how NASCAR got it done so we might be able to copy that. It sounds so easy but is not anywhere close to that.

Keep working on it and one day it will happen.

Nascar got it done because they had/have control of the racetracks. If you disagreed with Bill France on something
there was nowhere else to go. It was built on a dictatorship.


Rich

Damm, we can't do it that way then. There must be someway!

The one thing I heard all year that was not fair is not even being brought up....

HP....In Class 5 I thought the one thing you guys would want to get a handle on is the amount of HP you can run along with Class 6..in fact all the Class's....with prise money being paid out and no entre fee's....do you not see how our class's can get out of hand when you can continue to put in more and more HP and torque to win....if you have a low budget team running say a 450hp boat in Class 5 and some teams with some money to continue to keep putting in bigger HP and torque how compeditive do you think it will be....

Just a tought....stupid...maybe...but it would not be the first time....

Gino,
I think you have a valid point. Instead of prize money from 1st to whatever place, would racers be more receptive to race if "Tow Money" was awarded? This would take the sting out of being outspent on horsepower. The only extra thing the "winners" would recieve would be a trophy. The Hydros have used this (tow money) to build their fleet. Why not try this with Offshore?? For someone like me who is on a very limited budget, it might entice me to go to a Michigan race. It would also encourage midwestern racers to come east. Just throwing this out there......we have all winter to toss ideas around......

The tow money is not a bad idea, but as a class grows the amound of money would get kinda thin fast.

Warren,
The way the tow money works is: the total purse is distributed to all the racers. For example if there is a race in NJ, the tow package might be 450.00 for boats coming from Maryland/Virginia area, 850.00 for boats coming from Mich/Ohio area and 0 for NJ boats.
The tow package isn't the "class purse" divided up amongst the class.
A class 5 boat coming from Virginia to race in NJ would get the same tow money as a class 3 boat coming from Virginia.
So if I travel out to Michigan with my 450 horse class 6 boat, and get stompped on by Tyler Crocket with an 800 horse small block, he might get the win and a trophy, but I get "tow money" for going out to Michigan. The tow money takes some of the "sting" out of being out-horsepowered, and traveling 600 miles.
Hope this helps.

I guess you really need to look at what we as racers are trying to accomplish with OPA....

Is it changing rules to benifitt your own team or really get more racers to come out...

What will really get more racers to come out and get the current racers to attend more races?

We know that the Geico Tripple Crown will get a good turn out...but what about the rest of the year....do we not owe it to all the race sites to have a good boat turn out and put on a show...

Should teams that attend every race be compensated?

Smitty has always been open mined to what the racers are thinking....so should we as racers maybe try to come up with ways to get all of us to every race....

What will best help our sport....prise money or boat count...

Do we really look at it as: the bigger the boat count the better the chance to be invited next year and maybe have more money offer to come back or..is it....I don't care if I only race against 3 boats becasue I will get a pay check even if I brake....

Just a tought....we know some teams are only running for the prise money and will only do certain races they have a chance on winning....An more power to them....but should we relook at what is and how its being paid out and in the end will it really contribute to get more boats out?

I know some people think changing the rules on our boats my bring more boats to our sport....but how long do you think a low budget team can travel from Mich to MD to NY to Tenn. and if they do not finnish in the top 3 to recieve any prise money, can they sustained to keep racing....while some teams just attend a few races to get a pay check....

Just a stupid thought again....
Should we first look at, what rules should we look at to get 40 to 45 boats to every race.....because with the economy the way it is....do we really think by changing some rules of our boats will really bring out new teams....

What is the #1 way to get out new teams and get the current teams running half of the season to run the whole season?

I think they should leave the $ part where its at.
BUT ,,,,the thing with the HP rule is a perfect idea for any P-class !!!!!!!!
Because if nobody gives a ratsa$$ about it i will have a 1200 HP motor in my boat for 09 and still run P-4.
That thing will scream like a Formula one car from 20 -85 MPH,,,,in less then 3 sec. LOL :evilb::eek::evilb:

What will best help our sport....prise money or boat count...


IF YOU HAVE PRICE MONEY ,,,,,,,YOU GONNA SEE BOATCOUNT !!!!!!!!!:party-smiley-004:

The reason for me ,,,,,,because if i would have the chance to break even with my travel and hotel expenses at a race i would defenetly GO ,,,no question about it.

If i could not break even ,,,,,then wy should i go. ( if its outside of ,,,,lets say a 2000$ range)

Thats my opinion. ,,,,,,,but also i am one of the poorest out there that love the Sport but NOT THE ENGINE BUILDERS. LOL

So you could possible think of it like:
If I do 8 races a year....
and I only place 3 time all year
and say brake once or twice during that year...how much did you make in prise money....maybe 3 or 4k.....
But what if you still had prise money but not as much...but all teams still got a certain dollar amount based on attendance during the year....everyone would get money at every race...more to the teams that finished 1st,2nd and 3rd and more to teams that as the races are put on are attending every race...so by the last race of the year....the teams that have attend the most races and finish 1st 2nd and 3rd place would be paid the most because it is those teams that are putting the most into OPA....and even if a team made its only race at the end of the year...they would still get paid something for making the trip....

Who would benifit from that:
1 The teams that are putting in the most time and money.
2. Weather you think you have a shot at winning or not you will be compensated for your attendance.
3. With teams being paid more for every race they attend it would give teams a reason to continue to race with a bonus if you place.
4. With more teams attending the races it would also make the point chase closer. ( also another reason to make every race)

Scott,

Are you thinking about coming over to OPA? If you figure the price per race plus regisration for your current Org plus the lower gas prices you could probably run with us for less money then your paying now? Only problem you gota run with the big boyzzzz like Augie:party-smiley-004:

I think Gino may be on to something. We lost some teams last year to the ecomony and I'm afriad it will be more this year. Travel money would help, but you must travel a min distance, 250 miles or something. We need to have people travel to all the sites so we can grow.

May be we should start a conversation about how we can grow the organization. For example, how can we attrack a series sponsor that will provide travel money? Or may be class sponsors. How can we promote the OPA?

Let me throw out an example...lets say the pruse is 25k in 8 Class's...

With 40 boats in the 1st race of the year:

1. every team would get $350 for attending (14k)
2. Remaining prise purse (11k) gets split over the 8 class's ( $1375 ) 1st place = $700
2nd place = $400
3rd place = $275
So the 1st place team takes home $1050
2nd place teams takes home $750
3rd place teams takes home $625
and everyone else takes home $350....every team will have some assistance to at least help towards expenses...

Now as the season gose on the teams that are attending all the races there attendance $ will go up, plus the possiblity of 1st, 2nd and 3rd place money...each race that teams miss will go to the teams that are attending by the % they have attended.

Even if we retained 80% of the racers to make all sites which would be the biggest % of attandance in the last 3 years...
It would still pay close to $500 to race teams that have supported OPA all year to show up by the end of the year

These numbers can be work out a number of ways...
but you here from teams each year..."IT COMES DOWN TO IF I HAVE THE MONEY TO MAKE THE NEXT RACE" well I would hate to have to count on a team on winning to make the next race...and give all teams a budget that they are guaranty for a min. for the year for attending each race...then the prise money is a bonus...and not hear, I will only do 1 or 2 races a year and if I win both I get $4500....and brings nothing to the points chase....I understand if teams have other commetments or can not make but 5 racers a year because of there work schedule...but by that extra money that can be giving to a team after 5 races that may be at its braking point, that attendance money may be able to get them to 1 or 2 more races that they were not going to attend because of funds....

To sum it up in a nut shell:

Do we want to give a team that make 4 races a year and if they win all 4 gets $8,800 and loose a team that was willing to make all races but cant becasue they ran out of money...or do we still reward that team that makes 4 races a year but only gets $4k for 4 wins and give some money to the teams that were unalbe due to funds but now can attend more races to help our sport and OPA as a race Org with a large boat count...

This makes alot of sense

Anything to help cover some cost works fo rme. :drink: