Hey Eddie, Thats a great point anybody that is interested in a single engine under 32ft class semi spec style NO GPS class please chime in now !!!! remember this is not about class 4 or changing anything with their rules !!!

How we get payed in the Unlimited Lights Hydroplane Racing Assoc.

Beause if you only pay 5 boats, all you get is 5 boats(my quote for years)

Total purse for Tri-Cites WA $15,000
points fund 10% to encourage season long partisipation $1,500
line1 - line 2 $13,500
Tow Money 85% $11,475
Prize money 15% $2,025


1st 50% $1,013
2nd 30% $608
3rd 15% $304
4th 5% $101

Tow money
80% of purse split even between all legal starters of any heat
14 boats at Tr-cites my cut $738
5% of purse is payed as tow money...How it works. They mapquest from HOME port to race site of all racers. Then they add up the milage. Then divide yours by the total for your % of tow money. My cut at Tri-cites was $477 because I came from FL and most of the other teams are from Seatle area.
Then you pay $250 entry fee to the ULHRA, comes right out of your money. No pay then you get it back.
My check for 6th place at Tri-cites was $968.

Mike
UL 89

Capt Mike,
Thanks for your input. In your opinion, how important is the "tow money"? How many teams show up because of it?

fastedy, you don't hear too much about class 4 because I don't feel there is a problem there. I'm running the same boat in class 4 since 2000. You do know that all the single engine boats kick my a$$ in calm water right! And you know that it takes a lot of power to push 13,000 pounds. Listen, whatever class 4 wants I have open ears just as any other class we have. I think we should have a meeting like we had in 2001,2001 and lay everything out. I'll talk to Smitty today about this.

No one boat is perfect for every condition, But I would think in flat water races you guys would rock

Harrison, MI
St Clair, MI
Patch, Ny
Cambridge, MD
Chatt, TN

5 races out of 8 would work to you advantage.

I would feel the same way if 1/2 the OPA races were approx. 4hrs or less from my house.

Fast Shafts

For me It's the only reason...towards the end of Factory 1, I felt like we should just give the entry money to Mark and Gino. And not even bother to race...save a little money and wear and tear on the boat.

After F1, I looked at every form of boat racing...I wanted to be in a safe boat(capsule) and I wanted to get a little something back for my time. It's why I now race inboard.
If I'm part of the show, I should get a little. Do they pay the backup bands at an Aerosmith concert? I realize I'm not Steven Tyler, but if I'm the drummer in the back, there is not a SHOW without me. And I'll take the drummers pay.

In the ULHRA, we are lucky. We run multiply heats with random draws. There are 2 top boats, 3 or 4 that can be there on a given day, and 10 of us that fill in the field. Depending on the course and time, we run 2-3 heats with and A, B, and sometimes a C. That's a lot of chances for a win.
And wins feel good even if they don't pay!!

How many teams would show up at a Nascar event if they only payed the top 5. There are teams right now that make a good living as field fillers for them. Nascar's answer a couple of years ago, when their count dropped, was to pay more at the back of the field.

Funny how the guys up front, in a class, always say the pay scale is fine. Way to encourage growth.

Mike

Thanks Capt,
I think your unbiased opinion means alot. "Field Fillers" is a term often heard in auto racing, not boat racing. I agree that Field Fillers are an important. "Field fillers" can help OPA to sell their product, more teams staying in hotels, restaurants etc. Better to bring too many boats to a race, than not enough boats. The question becomes: How do we attrack more boats? Answer: Money? The difficult part: Who/how is the money raised, and how to divy it up.

Im not sure where people got the idea that a smaller single boat can out turn a larger twin boat. That is a totaly false statement!!!! All of the singles in class 4 that I know of have to run a high X dimension and on a box to achieve the speeds needed in the straights. That makes for some extremely wide turns unless you want to spin out. This doesnt mean we need to change class 4 but it should be known that singles have no advantage other than reliability.
MD

And Randy should know.

And the fact that we weigh in at 5200 lbs.is a factor as well. If you think we run light lay-ups and so on ...you are wrong. Do the equation of HP vs. Weight and compare it to the other class 4 boats...

Dave

I have to say it depends on what boat you have.

My old 32 foot single engine weighs 5700 # with 70 Gallons fuel, has 800 HP on a box and a #5.

I turn on a dime at 75-80 in any water ?!

And then the reliability thing ,,,,,,,,,,,well i dont know,,,,,,,,,,, i blew up almost every race this year.:eek:

What i think though is that every twin has advantage in the exhelaration part,,,and thats the most important in speed bracket racing.

Therefor if there would be a class for max 32 single engine ,no speed limit ,,,,,that would be the $hit !!!!!!:evilb:

OK, Ive got some time before the wife gets home from yoga.

First...get rid of the EGOS...the "if I don't win I'll go start my own group or quit", has ruined offshore.

Second...change the "Rich boys playing with their toys" view that the general public has of offshore racing. How, make it look like a race, not Rich boys running around in their big toys.
Which is just like it looks like now, with so many classes, champions, etc. And after the start..no one on the beach was any idea of whats going on, usually.

Third...Change how you think about getting the money. Going to a city council and asking for $50,000 doesn't work so well. How do they justify it? Most offshore fans don't travel very far, and the serious one's are here on OSO, so lets look at hotels...
50 teams x 3 rooms x 2 nights x $100 night x 2% hotel city tax =$600 in additional tax for a city. And wonder why they don't want to pay. Plus any add expense(police fire etc) that the promoter doesn't pick up.
On the other hand, in all my years of racing and being a fan, never has anyone asked me for a donation to the racers. Yeh, I have been asked to pay $20 or more for some "VIP" area that wasn't worth it or buy a T shirt...but as a fan on the beach no one has ever asked me for $5 or $10 to help bring the races back next year. And what about the spectator fleet..I'm sure some would be willing to donate...has anyone asked. You guys should see what there do at Seattle Seafair.
100,000 people on the beach at Pt. Pleasant, 1/2 at $5 a piece is $250,000, hell 20% of the people would be $100,000
Sell buttons or wrist bands. In this new economy, a little from a lot , is going to be easier than a lot from a few.
Change , you guys need change. Your thought thats it's working is flawed...not getting any worse, maybe, but not better.
Mike

But do you realy think ,,,if u ask for a donation that all these fans in this econemy would come to a race ?????

If they know they need to donate ,,,probably half of them would stay home.

I think its a great idea though. Defenetly helps. Thanks.

yes
 

i think alot of people would. look at what sbi does every year in KW and people show up and pay.

as for all this rules changes. STOP, leave it alone. i would say if anything less classes. put a 15 mph jump in there and move some the boats around to make the classes bigger.
and with boat lenght, well certain boats are better in the rough, some in the flat. the races are pretty 50/50 with the two types of conditions. if the closet racers really want to race they would. the only thing that might work to bring out more teams is tow money.

Unless you are referring to Art Lilly at Chattanga 2 yrs ago. I recall he totally played with Class 4 in his single SVL boat. Even with his son driving in his first race.

$20 for a day on the beach for a family of 4 with exciting racing...cheaper than the $80 of shirts, or $100 of VIP or $400 of tickets to a Nascar event.

If only 1/2 showed up and you get money from them all, you get something almost as valuable as their money...fan loyality.
Try to market offshore right now...tell the sponsor you have 100,000 people on the beach watching you race, and he says, "yeh right", they are there for the sun. Tell him you have 50,000 paying fans on the beach watching you race,,,now you have something of value to him...loyal fans.
Mike

How abought 27' Canopy, single engine boats in class 5.
At one time you had most of the open class 5 fleet racing against the same boats in Class 4 now, What makes the most sense, 30'SVL's 92mph boats racing at 85 or racing at75mph.
You can't race SVL's against former F1 bats, I dont see adding another class, if their is one or two boats with a problem maybe look at them individually, or a class vote.
just my .02

Personaly I'm not looking for another engine change,
Thats why I'm closley following the, Gino Racing League thing,
he just may get this off the ground.

Im confused, wasn't all SVLs running class 4? I know in '07 the only canopy boats allowed was the bat boats. That makes sense as they are 24', a 30' canopy boat in class 5 doesn't make sense.

I like the idea of a single engine, 32' or 30' max length with engines built within a certain spec...510" max, etc. Sounds fun! What tech format was used in APBA's A-class racing?

Concerning the single vs. dual, the concern is not just in initial acceleration but also in the way it handles in the corner. Two props will always be more stable than a single. Try standing on two feet vs. one and you get the idea...:drink:

Forgot to add my "one idea per team".


How about those who break out still finish ahead of those who just flat out "break"?

All too often (myself included) a boat would break and not even complete all the laps yet end up ahead of those who ran all the laps. Now to me the guys who finished the races have put on more of a show to the sponsors/spectators and deserve the trophy/cash.

Thoughts???

I agree this is not changing the current classes just putting ideas out there.

Under 32'
Open or closed??? - F1 proved they can NOT race together so a decision would need to be made.
Drive - speedies allowed or bravo style only?
Engine Size - maintain A-class 510s?
Prop - ?
RPM - ?
Weight - ?
Step vs. non - ?

I'd like to see the fastest start at the rear as well.


I'm thinking this may need to go in a new thread...:food-smiley-007:

Even though i broke alot in 08 ,,,,,,,yes i agree,,,,would make more sence.

AGREE again ,,,wow.:ernaehrung004:
But with the drive it wouldn't matter ,,i think because a Bravo exelarates faster then a speedy.

I put that in as a "round-about" way of limiting power. I'd guess a bravo starts losing reliability pretty steadily after 600, especially in a racing environment.

Yes ,,,i quess they do.

Thats wy i have a speedy !!:evilb:

But since there are not so many speedy's out there i would not sep. them from the bravo's.

As far as i know there are 5 boats under 32 with a speedy and 2 of them are canopied. (Phantoms)

The other 2 are 2-32 Activators and my 32 Aero-tek.

Guy's Extreme also...

Your right and i forgot an other phantom which my buddy ownes,,,,,,:party-smiley-004:

That would make it 7 boats total ,,,if they all would race ,lets say max 800 HP 510 ci no blower,,,that would be a cool class,,,to add to any race .

And yes we could go as fast as the boat would go ,,,,cool i dont need to dick around any more ,,,just slap my 32 pitch on and go,,,,,yuwhoo 100 + here we go .???? LOL

I respectfully disagree. Breaking out of your speed in my opinion is cheating. It may be unintentional, but you should be
DQ'd nevertheless. (Been there myself) The penalty, in my
opinion, should be harsher.

Rich

My thoughts were an effort to make it more clear to the spectators as well as be fair to the racers. General spectators never understand why a boat that broke part way thru can finish ahead of a boat that runs all the laps. The "cheating" part is a valid point but how many boats really can't run over their class max???? I'd be suprised if it was more than a couple.

I still think you should lose position if you breakout, just not behind those that didn't finish.

maybe you should lose the lap you break out on? break out once, only lose 1 lap. break out every lap, you finish last then.

if 5 boats start a race, 1 pulls off instantly and the other 4 battle it out for 30 minutes finishing the race and forcing each other to break out, the one that pulled off shouldn't win.

Death ? :eek:


I think you guys are trying to reinvent the wheel.

LOL :grinser010:

I quess I got the idea of single engine boats winning in Class 4 or running up front is when I watch Team Actane and Laveycraft win and do very well in Class 4...even Bruce said his SVL was compeditive in Class 4....but either way...its not me to judge...I'm not running in Class 4 so i think I will leave it up to the Class 4 teams to hash it out.....as far as what I have seen in the last 2 years in Class 4....I think its been great racing with both single engines and twin engines with a good boat count.....

Again why change it....if a single engine boat dose not feel its compeditve in 4....move down to Class 5....and leave class 4 for twins and singles that want to run that speed....

Food for thought:

Forget tow money. In reality, the fact we don't pay entry fees
is our tow money.

Revamp purse system to pay to 10th place

1000 to win, 750, 500, 400, 350, 300, 250, 200, 150, 100

Pay out at all races, even Gieco Cup events.
Still have Gieco Cup Overall Points prize purse for the 3 events.

Any money not distributed (say class 6 only has 3 boats) gets
put in year end points fund.

At year end amount in year end points fund divided by 6 classes and distributed to teams.

This way everyone gets something.

Rich

Team Octane.

Another thought...


What about more kilo runs? That way teams can put the big boy wheels on and run them flat-out for bragging rights. Maybe an extra couple points in the series too.

Thats 1 way....but one of the problems that some teams had last year by not making all the races is they ran out of money...it will do them no good if they don't get it till the end of the year......by paying teams as we race, the ones that are making every race would get a higher % of pay out since they are putting more into OPA buy making more races...and also that if any equipment failures a team can still afford to fix the problem and make the next race...I think is a great idea to pay the teams that have attended the whole OPA season and thats what we really need ,but if it could help out them guys to have some money in there pocket during the year....I think we can get the boat count up at ever race site....

Personally I dont think any SVL boats want to run in Class 5. 75 MPH in a 92 MPH boat is not much fun. If the SVL boats as a group would come I would guess they would race in class 3 just so they could race at WOT against each other.
Is there a reason why Cat- Lite doesnt race in class 1 to fill that class and reduce a class? Shouldnt there be some rule in place that if there are not 5 boats min. in a class you move up until your class builds.
Im just not a fan of so many classes with so few boats.
MD

Nothing like showing the people your class #5 boat can run 95mph plus... :eek:

I thought that was class 6 boat at the time...:drink:

Personally I could care about what a boat runs in the kilo vs. what class it is in. More comes into play than just what a boat can run by itself, in a straight line. But it would be fun to let it all hangout once in awhile to see how they match up.