Class ?
 

Are the twin outboards still allowed in class 5 or only the ones that are grandfathered? or none? Assumedly no outboards allowed in class 6 right? Will the horsepower be policed at all in 6 for 2012?

class ?
 

Who was that over the bow shot looking at.
You could run a single outboard in 6 if you wanted.
Twin outboards in 5 are the grandfathered ones only.

SOB in 6 I think?

sob who in class 6 pretty much everybody in the class are great people .
And the boats with extra power are still proped to run at or neer 70 mph.

Single outboard in 6. Smitty is looking at HP issue.

I am not disrespecting the guys who are set up for 6 with big power. Not a shot at PFE I love that boat. I know Tyler built his engine wiht tons of experience and has it cammed to make power where it needs to, then quit. But simply propping a monster down to run 70 or blazing around on the chip is a little silly. I think if you have a 75 mph capable 26' boat you should run in 6. You want to be able to hit top speed of your class. 75 capable 26' wouldn't really have a chance in 5. I want to come out and race, but I am not going without at least a chance to be in the front. I am not saying you need a boat that can't breakout, As i agree a speed limit is a limit. But if you have killer torque you can pull out turns and squirt ahead and then it is not really a race but more of a dog chasing a rabbit thing. I raced against one single engine yellow phantom once, in smooth water race, the thing was a total monster, I would have been able to out turn and pull any std. SVL (90 + capable boats ) but this thing had so much power he would just squirt the throttle any where after a turn and shoot ahead. It was the most frustrating thing to be chasing around a boat that didn't belong in our class with no possibility of getting ahead. And I was close. SBI has screwed up their classes, and OPA is the place to race with consistent rules, I just want to be competitive, the boat I'm working on now will be a class 6 rig, but again I don't want to drive from Missouri to Jersey just to play in the wakes of the front runners, You can get all the rough messed up water you want right here in the Ozarks, I wanna race to win.

[QUOTE=Bilgerat;3529176] .

This seems to be heading toward the great SPEED LIMITED racing vs. NON-SPEED LIMITED racing debate.

:party-smiley-004:

Gary and I still test and try different props, drive height, we moved weight (added some) and work trying to get the boat to turn better than any boat out on the course.

Instead of spending time getting that last mph on top the boat is set up for acceleration. Gary has spend countless hours playing with cam/head combos to get our low compression pump gas motor to pull as hard (or in many cases) harder than HI-Compression race gas motors.

Both are great forms of racing but for us OPA/Bracket racing is king.

Deleted

class ?
 

Bilgerat i know what you mean but i will give you example we ran my boat this weekend with my backup engine that is 600 hp with a big wheel on it it still ran 90 by the way we found the problem why we lost speed at loto.
But proped with our race wheel it will run 75 mph.
Most of the boats in the class can run 75 or so i do know the cotner boys need and want more power because they run on the number but dont get there fast so they have to do it in the turns but if you start on the outside it makes it tough to get up front.
You also need to remember having the extra power its easy to break out take it from me.
Also for 2012 if you break out and kill the class you will be moved up a class.

Can't say we want to.


Rich

You know you want more POWER:boat:

HP also doesnt matter quite as much in the ocean, which we should have more of next year

Not really. I think 500 HP is enough to push a 26' foot boat around.

Guys,

This is an inherit problem with "Bracket Racing". Here's the bigger issue, in February, there is a rules meeting/awards banquet in New Jersey and yes I have only attended last year, but I heard only complaining and nothing about being apart of the solution and trying to solve this mess. Thankfully at that time Smitty proceeded to the awards as it was obvious that nothing was getting accomplished. The only time it is discussed is with our little private pow wows and here on the boards. That being said, nothing will ever be solved or fixed. I am sure Smitty would have no problem if you as classes had calls or meetings and prepared a written proposal to make it better. As long as it meets insurance, safety guidelines, and the financial framework of OPA, I am positive he would let it fly.

Another issue is as much as we enjoy winning, how can you as a "new" race team expect the rules to be changed every time a "new" boat comes out to race? This brings up the old cliche of "Build a boat for the class, not a class for the boat" Every boat is different which is made evident by the personnel piloting the machine to the hull design. ie 26' Joker with 500hp makes it a 70 mph boat, 26' 10" Fountain with 500hp makes it an 85mph boat. Your trying to tell me that 10" gives it an extra 15 mph??? uhhh no

Jason, The rules were changed in SBI based on the racers wishes and was put to a vote, nothing more, nothing less. OPA has the same capabilities however we as racers MUST go about it in a professional and dignified way. There are easy solutions as well as tough solutions and no not everyone will be happy, however we as Racers must look in the mirror and quit putting blame on any organization. We, the racers are the problem, what are we, the racers, going to do about it?

Well said. I agree with the Build a boat for the Class policy.


Can anyone else tell winter is coming? :p

I think Bilgerats point is: Is the unregulated horsepower good for class 6?

No. Not in whats supposed to be an entry level class. Ok...ill go back to my class 5 business now

class ?
 

This class 6 topic normally starts after christmas early start this year .
Remember people keep clean keep it nice everybody can see what we are talking about.
Ill start with entry level boat what is considered entry level.
Horsepower cap thats the biggie lots of opionions on that one.
These two things that i listed should keep everybody going for a while lets here some opions.:argue:

Entry level needs to be considered, and if I was an entry level guy i would want to be able to come in with an inexpensive hull and horsepower and still have a chance to win within the rules. I don't consider myself Entry Level, but would sure like to get back into the OPA, and will probably be able to do it quicker with a class 6 boat. I think a loose horsepower cap is a good idea, problem is need to keep costs at a minimum and loose is a loose word. I'm not gettin on Gary, I had a 26' Velocity with a 385HP 454 MPI, boat ran an honest 72mph. There is several of these hulls that come for sale affordably, PFE may not really want to run that boat 75mph against 30' boats. The big horsepower has a better chance to breakout thing is a non-topic, any decent throttle hand can keep that from happening. By the way is there a single outboard powered 26' V hull that will go 70 MPH??

OK, How many of you actually read the rule book and what it says about class 6?

The book DOES NOT state that Class 6 is an entry level class, however, it does state the is is DESIGNED as an entry level class. Come on guys, why are you beating a dead horse issue.

And just an FYI, this argument is NOT only had about class 6. It has been argued/discussed about boats in class 2, 3, 4 & 5. I'm sorry to come off like this but ............ blah blah blah, if you are gonna race, get a boat that fits in a class. No one complained when I raced in class 4 in a single engine Fountain & got lapped twice, but I'll pat myself on that back that I at least raced the boat in the class where that boat should be.

Go on Scream and Fly, I'm sure someone on there can answer that question a lot better than here.

A few years back there was a SOB that was running in OPA in Class 6

I see nothing wrong in the class 6 participants having a constructive discussion about our rules.

Class ?
 

I agree no problem with talking about the rules keeps the blood flowing.
Dee when you raced in the fountain you could have also been in 5 just like i could move up to 5 or even 4 but i like being in class were we are all the same size boats if i were to move up to 5 in really big water we would have a hard time hanging with them because most of class 5 boats are 3 to 4 feet bigger than we are.
So i guess size does matter !

If Class 6 wants to keep it the rules as it is I'm fine with that. If they want to intact a 500hp limit I'm fine with that also.

But remember a 500hp limit will move some boats out of our class. 3 That I know of right now.

So the heavy boats are allowed more horsepower to make it fair you say, under what power to weight formula? Now we are dealing with people cheating possibly?? more rules, more regulations ??

Class 6 is entry level as in speed (70mph) that's how I was told. If you want a true cheap entry level class I suggest the inflatable cat outboards (and I have one for sale)

Is OPA going to run a class of inflatables ? That sounds like my speed but i don't like to get wet. Something I got used to being out front :eek:
Everyone says "build a boat for a class" so how are overpowered boats that would probably need to be pushed up in class building a boat for a class, I didn't know but it sounds to me that Gary Cook is a engine builder, So surely if he didn't want to move up in class ( which i understand, especially in rougher races ) then that hull could surely run well in 6 with a smaller bullet, and still be very competitive. And now don't get me wrong I am not suggesting Spec Class stuff at all. I like to OPA "P class" rules.
Separately If all the boats were at least a bit closer in power or not even power but capable speeds, then there doesn't need to be the, well one is better in rough than calm conditions, in the flat everyone is on the number and in the rough speeds would come down a bit.
Again I am definitely looking to 6 but wouldn't be against class 5 or 4 if the stars line up. I do like running the faster speed, but it seems all the class 4 boats have dried up, so I would rather have some more competition.
I do remember a single outboard at Cambridge one year I think, but it was like 21 or 22 foot long and barely good for that smooth water race. Maybe a Pantera 24'?? or 24' velocity?

21 foot Intimidator. They ran Patchougue and Cambridge. Had a heck of a time holding on in the choppy conditions.

The reason the boat was ran in class 4 was because of what happened in Chattanooga a few years back, I then could have been accused of sandbagging by some. I was happy seeing the boat top @ 79.4 for my 1st race (Even though I know someone under propped me & air there was AIR in the steering, LOL)

The only reason I chimed in was, it's the same old discussion, and I get to hear a lot of what the racers say off the boards, etc about how it's not fair about how some boats get to run on some classes. I have always hated the saying "Know the game and play it better" ..... my thought is to just be in it where it makes you comfortable. It's like the lottery saying "Ya gotta be in it, to win it."

I guess it really is the "starter" class thing that gets me. We ALL know what it is, so why even discuss or debate that issue.

And yes, size does matter :coolcowboy:

I also looked back, there were 2 SOBs that ran the Camden race. I know, they couldn't (or maybe shouldn't) run any rough water races.

It just gets tiresome listening to the old adage of how someone bought a boat for a class to race, then they are not competitive in that class and then just whine about it.

OK, I'm done, I'm gonna go back to shopping for a new camera to take pictures of ALL of ya next season :evilb:

Good thoughts. I am stuggling with this as well. Spec power, works if all the boats are the same. But, with so many different hulls, some need more power than others. Case in point. We ran a stock merc 525 in Boomers boat for the beginning of the year, Figured we would stick to a horsepower rule and see how it worked out. The boat would run 66 mph after 2 miles of trimming. Lost by a half a lap in sunny isles. Went back to original power, boat ran great. Now there is such a thing as overboard. Problem now is there are more boats with power than not. The real solution is ocean racing, but we all know that is impossible. So, we all know that in order to make lots of power, while being naturally aspirated, you need either Cubic inch, or rpm. We can limit both. Or either. Dont want to chase way the teams that have cubic inch already. But, 510 cu in. at 5600 rpm is a thought.

agreed don't want to chase anyone away, but make it more attractive for more to come in. I think one or both of your ideas are good Smitty, a pump fuel rule -no? I don't know if that is easily policed, or would make a distinct difference?

This year and in years past we have seen both kind of boats win.

Crockett with 700hp win the worlds
Akula with 500hp win the worlds last year
Joker with 500hp win races

It's not all about the Horsepower

Hope the rules stay the same. I'm already planning my new power. I like the large number of boats in class 6 keeps it fun!

I agree...look at the teams that won in Class 5 this year....MIGHTY MACS 600hp...OPTIMA 700hp...SPECIALIZED twin outboards about 550hp...WHO YOUR DADDY..twin small blocks with about 850hp...TYPHOON 525hp

It is about Horsepower, to a degree.
There will always be different winners in each class as there should be, but My questions are not about the fact that in the past different boats with different horsepowers have scored victories. Throw in breakouts and breakdowns there will always be different winners. The point is keeping the competition close during the race.

Well all this talk about who has more horsepower is ok but where do we end? Do we then say any boat with an extension box is out? Any boat with other than a Bravo XR is out? Any boat with a ballast tank is out? Any boat with a Dominator carb out?

I agree with some kind of policy but I just dont know what it is. I dont mind a cubic inch and carb size rule if I had to pick one.:kiss:

Now run with this.:lolhit:

Heres something out of the blue and please I beg treat me like a kindergarten student.... Engine restrictions are great, are the resources in place that can "police" whatever restriction(s) is instituted?

Trent, speak english to this polish guy would ya? Are you asking how that would be instituted?

I think from what it sounds like we need to focus on maybe three things ? What do you think?
Cubic Inch Limit
Carburetion limit ? Are we going to gauge cfm capabilities on efi engines?
RPM limits.
Hopefully everyone in the class would abide by an RPM limit showing the tech staff what it is, and not having a switched system for a different limit when they walk away.
Everything else should be open .....I think. Drives, Steps, Gear Ratios, Propellers, as long as the speed is kept consistent to the classes intentions.
Please suggest Opinions and Scenarios that would effect the class using any or all of these Guidelines.

My opinion, as it has been in the past, is we do need to keep the HP in check. We have one of the biggest
classes in OPA with great teams. The goal should be to make the class more competitive as well as attractive for new teams to come and join the fun. We definitely do not want to move any team up to class 5.

CI limits, Carb limits, Restrictor Plates, RPM limits all are simple to check and can keep the competition close. Let's face it, it will never be equal. We are not a spec class. But, a reasonable HP limit can only make the racing better.

Rich
Joker Powerboats 611

ok J..... lol let me change the word "police" to enforce

We can come up with all the rules in the world, how will they be enforced? Nascar has a 20 million dollar budget per year on Sprint Cup tech alone. Does any association have the resources to properly enforce any "new" rules and/or restrictions put in place?

for example you can hook up a DDT to every single one of my motors, however it will not tell you that the 500 is @ 5600 rpm's, it will only tell you if and for how long I was on the limit. Unless you do a tear down of some sort, how can you tell that it is not @ the stock 502 that in fact it is at 504? oops I lifted my skirt on the beak, but I'll stay in Class 4 with her, you guys can put the 510, 5600 rule on Class 6 all day long:coolcowboy: