Turn One Rules
 

Please dont turn this thread into a Sh!tshow. And Smitty, if youd rather me just call you, ill delete this and call ya, no problem.
My question is, is what I did here(skip to 2:30), Illegal?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XxvhWfr9V4

I get that you cant go from lane 10 to lane 1 by cutting everyone off, but why not drop back and dive in on the inside? I gotta be honest, if you have to Hold your lane all the way through turn one and you have lane 10, you lose. When you come out your so far behind you may as well turn in, not like ya can go 80 just to catch everyone.

Thanks for the clarification, Im just a little confused, dont want any problems in Solomons.
Johnny

Yes johnny what you did you cant do that .
You have to maintain you lane the best you can threw the corner.
And here it is the first complete corner thats the 2 turns that make that complete turn you have to stay in your lane.
I know this to be forsure because i was going to use the drop back move and i was told not to do it or get a penality.

Hope this helps and there should be nobody saying anything about this because thats the way it is like it or not .

And by the way i dont like it:ernaehrung004:

How bad is the penalty? Cant be any worse than losing, which is what happens if you get the outside lane in C5 and obey that rule lol

weve never had a mishap that I know of in turn 1, I would like to see the transom rule like was used forever until now, I agree if your 4 boat lengths back and in lane 8 why would you have to hold a lane an troll all by yourself around the outside? or what about 2 boat lengths? I think what you did is what I would do being that far behind

At the point of the marker(Turn 1) you held your lane. However upon reaching Turn 1, you turned to the inside with the Turn 2 marker being so set back like it is in Solomons. The "unwritten rule" states that you are to maintain your lane through Turn 1. Here's the can of worms. Obviously, before you dove to the inside, you had passed the Turn 1 marker, does that mean that you were "through" the turn????

I'm with Gary in the fact that I was instructed directly that the check up/under will be penalized before the Port Huron race.

In my opinion, nobody should be required to hold thier lanes EVER.As Eddie said, we have never had an incident in turn 1 even with 15 boats like we had in Patchogue a few years back.I think the potential of a crazy first turn could be alleviated by lining up the boats by class in lane assignments prior to taking a parade lap.Take a full parade lap around the course...and then a pace lap(the pace boat could display a yellow flag at this point)...coming out of turn 4 on the pace lap... turn the boats loose as soon as possible and before the mid course start/finish line.The teams starting in the outside lanes need to gauge thier speed accordingly in order not to be left behind at the start.Teams wishing not to start too far outside could have the option to fall in behind the rest of the fleet after they cross the mid course start finish/line.Breaking out at anytime during the parade lap,pace lap or race itself should be penalizing accordingly.I also think that this starting procedure would add another element of excitement for the fans.

I agree, the more straight away in front of us before turn 1 the better. I get that they want the hold your land rule because of some Class 6 mishaps and whatever, but I fee strongly that what you do BEHIND the pack shouldnt matter in this case.

Turn one rules
 

You would think this is a easy one but its not because mark my words the guy in lane 2 will drop back and cut off the lane 1 boat in the first turn then what how do i know this ask chris with the bat boat we did a move on him like that in orange beach .
I was told not to do that again sternly my feelings were really hurt:cartman:
That being said can somthing be done to help the outside boats have a little help to get to the inside line maybe without cutting people off maybe so but there has to be some lane holding pattern for some distance .
Maybe doing the parade lap and letting them go at the bottom of the straight would work then boats could have the option to drop back or risk breaking out and moving over and passing before the first corner.
But before this can happen teams need to learn how to line up properly behind the pace boat to get a good start.
Last but not least remember if you do somthing thats not right you may get some form of a slap on the fingers and thats the way it should be take what you get and live with it.
We were DQ in port huron for passing on the wrong side of a marker opps and if it were like the old apba days we would have been fined at the drivers meeting for ricks phone going off what im getting at here is in my opion the opa should give out some form of slap on the wrist if you do somthing wrong they have been a little easy on that in my opion because they dont want to chase any teams away.
Sorry didnt want to turn this into a rule slap on the wrist thing but you know if change up the start teams will be all over the place at the start for a better lane and that could be good shake things up early in the race or we could be linded up after the race to get wacked with the ruler.

The joys of bracket racing.

I like Marks idea of a running start. Come around turn 4 at 50, drop the flag and go like hell. Having a straight away in front of you will fix all of these things

With the approx 2 mile straight away (or however long it is) in Key West before turn 1, it helps out some but we've still dove in with 4 boats (out of 7/8). Although, it was definitely long enough to move around and find your own lane rather than the one you started in. I agree with starting as far back on the straight as possible.

maybe when possible, mill 1/2 mile beyond turn 4 and maybe drop the flag before or at turn 4, boats should be figured out by turn 1

thats what i was thinking....trying to line up 8 boats plus through a corner is never gonna work.

we had damn near a mile and a half in Port Huron to get it sorted out and i thought that was plenty...That being said, i think the reason for that is that the pace boat was slower than usual....40-45mph maybe...pretty easy to get lined up at that speed and not covering the ground we usually are at one of the 75mph breaking out before the green flag starts...haha

You could do like the champ boats line up at a dead stop, not like the hydro who is timming there starts. Being old school 20+ F2's turn 1 ( rule's what rule's ???) Jo

Thats the perfect solution.

We have had everything but fist fights over the starts, and you want me to release turn one? Yea there really is a tooth fairy.
Sorry for safety reasons we do it the way we do. Smitty

Understood, see ya in 2 weeks.

Smitty your point is taken, however, before the melee of turn 1, could the issue of pace boats consistency be addressed? We realize that they are volunteer boats at each site, but they do have an OPA official on each boat. Can that official reach over and state that they have to maintain 50 mph(or whatever speed you designate, based on course, conditions, etc) instead of the official telling the pace boat to slow down so they can get the picture? Instead of the parade lap being a cluster**** and just leading an unorganized fleet around for the explicit reasoning of familiarizing the racers with the course, cant the racers line up in their assigned lanes for this lap and then when everyone is lined up, they get turned loose as early on the stretch as possible, while keeping the rules for Turn 1 and doing away with the mill in between the parade lap and start of race.

Before you have to deal with the turn 1 mess, maybe we should start @ step 1 and fix step 1 first and establish consistency with the pace boats first and then turn 1 might not be such a calamity. Just a thought

I do know pigs can fly so why not the tooth fairy:lolhit:

Big boat race LOTTA people gonna be there.
Tighten up your chin straps and bring your big girl panties.
I know we havent had any starting issues in class 5 last 3 races?:party-smiley-004::poopoo::lolhit:

Here's a thought ......... follow the existing rules instead of changing them


Jus saying :stooges:

Only reason I had to back out and go behind everyone in that video is because the paceboat started the 75mph class at 80 lol

We got away from the running starts, for the simple reason, everyone was so concerned with getting in their lane and battling for position, no one was looking around to find turn bouys, reference points etc. defeated the purpose. We decided to drop the fleet mill and restart. much safer, and organized.

Mike, HAHAHAHA!!!! Its kinda hard to have a bad start with 2 or 3 boats!!!!!:lolhit:

I was going to stay out of this thread but might as well give my 2 cents..

I say free for all.. like the old APBA days.. Fight for your lane .. if you have room squeeze into the spot..

with that being said this is our new canopied race boat. :evilb:

Many of my best memories in racing were the starts and the first turn. By the end of the first lap its down hill from there as far as fun goes. Not sure when or why we have gone to this mister nice guy mentality in racing. It used to be WOT the whole race,put your boats in places you hope it will fit,trim your boat up or down,risk running tab at the price of losing speed,set you boat up for top speed in the conditions you were delt,$hit in your pants in the milling area because you were so jacked up about turn one and never ever play nice with your competetor on the course. It was a race for guys with balls and a sence of knowing this is not a safe sport. Now we have 100 MPH boats racing in a 70 MPH class. Hold your lanes in turn one and ask your competitor if its ok to pass them. Am I missing something???????????????? I would love to see an over haul from top to bottom again. We have taken this set of rules to the point that they are being manipulated to something other than what they were intended. OK shoot me !!!!!!
MD

Your just mad cause your old boat keeps kickin your azzzzzzz :lolhit::evilb:

103mph...

But if your trying to be a smart ass please dont.. as we posted before we dont race with that motor, that was one and done deal and we are putting the 600hp back in for the last race.

No Rick im not trying to be a smart a$$. And I know you and Tyler put big motors in your boats for the shoot out and congrats on that big speed thats a heck of a feet to achieve. Its a general statment that most classes have boats that far exceed the speeds of the class. Im even one of them 84 MPH max in a 75 MPH class. I just wish more racers could experiance the thrill of wide open throttle and having to use the trim and tabs.
MD

Randy, you going to make Solomons? I have something for you..................Hope to see you in your boat this time and good luck!!!!!!!

Ok, sorry if I came off short.. Long day.

Typhoon will be there for sure !!!!!! Love that site and the people there that do such a great job to make it happen. This is my favorite time of the year so when you can race in this kind of weather its a no brainner for me. SVL-29 in the house.
MD

Johnny I think you are on to something!!!!!!

Wait till I tell you about my new invention.....JOHNNY TABS! :lolhit:

whatever.

Got a few questions since I am still new to this. Wondering what you think?
1) Can the pace boat bring us up to 60+ mph before the start?
All three Michigan races we fell behind at the start. When you start the race at 40-45 mph, we just don't have the horsepower to keep up with the pack going into turn one. If you come out of turn #4 at 50 mph, then get us up to 60 mph and throw the green flag, I think the low horsepower boats like mine can be more competitive going into turn one. (Approx. 10 mph below max. speed)
2) Can we have more left and right turns?
I don't have the horsepower or the money to put into a bigger motor, but I do have a boat that turns very well. I think I can be a little more competitive around turns, whereas some of the big horsepower guy's are more competitive along the straights. Just wondering if having more left and right turns would level the playing field, without bringing an extra expense to the teams?
3) Two races instead of one? Saturday and Sunday race? Points determine winner.
In Ocean City we broke down in the first lap because of a loose wire on the ignition. Alot of time and money was spent for just 60 seconds of racing. Could of had the wire fixed and raced again. PFE disquilifed in Port Huron. Could of raced in round two and did better. Also, revese the order for race two to make it fair for everybody.
For spectators and fans that can't make a Sunday race, they will have a Saturday race to attend.
Also, as a former spectator it's exciting to see a large group of boats "neck to neck" fighting for position around each and every turn with a really close finish, rather then seeing them finish one at a time similar to seeing runners finish a marathon.
Eric & I are still new to racing and having a great time, but wondering what you think? Thanks,
Jeff Jacobs - Country Service Auto Transport - Boat #623
Serving Long Island Since 1992

Jeff, I'll take a stab, but please keep in mind, I am NOTspeaking for Smitty and/or OPA, just stating my opinion.

1)The boats with the big power want the pace speed to be less, the boats with the smaller power want it closer to the breakout speed. What speed is the middle ground in order to make everyone happy? I dont know, but as I stated earlier pace boat consistency is lacking and needs to be worked on for the future

2)As exciting as more turns would be, with the rash of accidents in offshore overall, recently, it probably would make sense to leave things alone for the time being. More turns means more of a chance of accidents and would raise the insurance to prices that it would increase the expense to the teams(trickle down economics lol) As Smitty did point out in his responses, safety is paramount.

3)Simply put, MONEY..... We all can only imagine what the expense costs to put on a race, now double it. The permit would need to be expanded to Friday for testing and a race permit then added for Sat, Choppers, crane for friday, etc I am sure it can be done as it has been done in the past with LLC. Then you add the expense to the teams of having to come in Thurs evening(extra night hotel, extra day away from work, etc) It is hard enough for the towns to raise the monies with a Sunday race scenario, I think we would lose sites if the price tag was doubled and we cant afford to lose any more sites.

I am by no means trying to shoot your ideas down as they have a ton of merit. Once again, my responses are strictly my opinion and NOT those of Smitty and/or OPA. Fact is #2 & #3 were done in the past, however, that association is no longer in business. Are these the reason why, no, but it is tough to take anything from something that as a whole failed. Myself personally am always trying to come up with ways to make it better, but Smitty has taken OPA from a 15 boat association to the 30+
boat counts we have today and to boot w/o entry fees and a payout. OPA used to be a $500 entry fee each race with only 2 races having a payout. He knows first hand, it can be way better, but as any racer knows with dialing in a race boat, all it takes is time and money, boat racing organizations are no different.

Jeff,
Here's my take.
1. Trent is right. The teams with lower HP like yours and ours would like to see a 60 mph start to erase the acceleration advantage the big HP boats.

2. Solomons will have a dogleg in the back straight to add a mild right turn. You will find however,(in my opinion) that more turns won't make much difference. The big HP boats have better acceleration that will overshadow any turning capability of a boat.

3. In addition to the reasons Trent brought up, you now need volunteers for two days to cover turn boats, safety, fire, police, EMS etc.....

Being in the same situation as you in regard to HP, the only practical solution is to build a bigger motor. Most of the boats are already at or over 600 HP, it wouldn't be easy to get everyone to power down. I do feel that 600 should be the limit in class 6, but that opens up the enforcement bag of worms.
My advice? Continue to race what you have, the more seat time, the better you get. In the meantime, start saving for more horsepower, even if it takes a year or two, it is the only way to get the acceleration needed to get
out of the turns.
See you in MD!

Rich
Joker Powerboats/CRC 611

This issue has been around as long as dirt. I think classes 5 & 6, a/w/a opa are doing more to keep the sport alive than any other class and/or org for that matter. Stagger 100 yard deuce formation for starts (gps,radio), would yield more and safer side by side action. Plus you would only need to count on one other person to make the turn. Take care.

????

Jim & Trent,
Thanks for the response.
Still learning and having fun doing it.
I guess I should get back in my truck and haul alot more cars.
Jeff