Is there a class2 in OPA, and/or can there be one?
 

If so who's in for class 2...

Dont quote me but I think Zipp Express wanted to be in 2

I talked to Smitty a few months ago,he would consider opening up Class 2 if we can show him a decent boat count,maybe include Super Vs in class 2.

Yes, Zipp Express would be interested in class 2. What would the breakout speed be?

How about bumping up every class 5 mph? Just thinking out loud. Brian

Please stop that.

Thats actually a great idea... but leave Class 6 speeds alone( they brought something like 10-12 boats out last year, consistently)
How's this look?

Class 1- 115mph
Class 2- 100 mph
Class 3- 90 mph
Class 4- 80 mph
Class 5- 70 mph (decal change only, rules are same)

simply put if you have $30,000 purse and reintroduce Class 2 that means 6 classes, intern you have $5000 per class, but if you have 5 classes, you have $6000 per class....simple economics. Less classes = more money, less classes = more boats per class hence more competition.

Go ahead, bash away, was just thinking, what do i know....:rolleyes::lolhit:

I thought 4 was 85 now? Make it 90 and so on. Regardless I'm with less classes bigger fields more money.

Thats where it gets technical. OPA is set up to have rule books in effect for 3 years. 2012 was the last year of the rule book that was in place(2010, 2011, & 2012) and the speeds were as follows:

Class 1- 115 or 117(117 only upon class vote on a race to race basis)
Class 2- 105(class hasnt run with the addition of the SV class)
Class 3- 95
Class 4- 85
Class 5- 75
Class 6- 70

Now is when Smitty will consult with team owners and OPA's insurance company to either maintain the same rules or to change them to go into effect for the 2013 season and the following 2 years.

So, I take it that this feb's meeting could be important? At least a little more than usual?

It could be, but that is entirely up to the racers.

what are the SVL rules for this year?

I fail to see how making everything go 5mph faster makes the racing better. Besdies Im building a boat for an 85mph class, if that changes Ill be REALLY annoyed.

But your right the awards will be important the band is killer :lolhit:

Understandably so. Been there. Heard the band was good

The band has been "Switched"

No offense, and not trying to go tit for tat, but keep in mind, BWD spent over 100 G's(probally way more) on a brand new boat for a certain speed and upon completion found out that the class was raised 5 mph... Obviously he was upset, however he moved forward and raced. Thats what racers do. He only brought it up for discussion purposes.

Maybe a solution would be keep the speeds the same and to utilize the formula placed in the OPA rulebook of: Pitch X RPM's X .01 / gear ratio / 12 = class you go in. Smitty is way to intelligent to know that all a boat can turn is a bravo 24, so if people come in the front door, they wont get embarrassed.

Found this in the local paper this morning about the coverage of the 12 car pileup @Daytona yesterday:

"The sport is rewinding," Keselowski said. "That is the important thing to say. The sport advanced to the two-car tandem three or four years ago and there were certain things you could do then that you couldn't do in the past without wrecking. Now the rules package is back to where we were in the early 2000's, when the fans enjoyed the racing better."

Sometimes you need to go backwards, before you can go forward. Johnny, before you get all defensive and say I'm picking on ya, I'm not... You and I have discussed several times that the races are over after lap 2 and the only way to advance(95% of the time) is through attrition. We both agreed.

I KNOW the band is great, but if I'm going to throw away over 1000 bucks ;its not to sit at the bar, listen to the band, eating ok food and more importantly freeze my a$$ off. Its to make the sport better...

So I ask you, how do we make computer racing better? How do we make it exciting from start to finish? How do we attract more racers and more importantly fans(which intern brings sponsors). Forgot to add, less classes= less fan confusion

Brian I consider you a good friend of mine so PLEASE dont take this as me being an ass (youll think im an ass after the first race anyway :D )...but
Why is it the two guys who want to change the rules are
1. Currently doesnt have a boat to race and consistantly talks about getting out of racing
2. Hasnt raced OPA yet?

And if something REALLY had to be changed(which nothing does frankly), and your fixated on less classes....why change everything?
TKO, Buill and Zipp want to run 2...bring back 2, eliminate SV. There. Less classes and not a change EVERYONE has to deal with.

Oh Johnny, you didnt get the memo? I have a boat and it can race tomorrow... but your right I do talk about leaving racing all the time, just fed up spending a lot of money to race against a computer, not other racers... I miss those days

Furthermore, I have mentioning that the speeds need to change for years, way before your new boat was even thought of, you know this.

I ask again, how do we make it better? I see above that you dont want any changes, so am I to assume that everything you told me over the years was false? Racers being self serving is why Offshore will never move forward and I find it hard to believe as talented as you and your father are that you cant find 5 mph for next to nothing cost wise

Oh I see, "racing a cumputer" was OK when you did it, but now that you arent, its "lame". Whatever.
Im sure the old Cobra could be pushed to 90, its really not the point. I fail to see how me racing at 90 vs 85 will make it better. Will it be closer racing? No. Will the fans even notice the difference? No. I guess we just dont have egos that dont need to go 90? lol
I Am however looking forward to a killer class 4 this year. Brian, Team Velocity, RnS, Maybe PFE, Jersey Outlaw and The Cobra at least. Way cool! :D

And Trent when its in the ocean, and its rough...we are racing each other ;)

Hey Johnny, I've reread what I wrote and I can see how it could construde as rabble rousing. That's not really my intention. I have no intention of standing up being a newby and try and turn your class upside down. I was just thinking out loud and meant no offense. I built my boat for the 85 bracket but got trapped with SBI by accident. Thnks for being friendly and helpful, you will get nothing but the same in return from me. And if you want to be an ass on the course go ahead, I have big shoulders and can take it and am not afraid of getting banged up a little bit. :-) All that being said on the days that it roughens up enough that we're not running up to 90 or 95 or whatever it happens to be ( which seems to change daily) its kinda nice not to be running against a computer.

Hey ittl be hard for me to be an ass when Im behind ya learning a new boat :)
Im glad I didnt annoy ya too much.
See ya in AC my friend.

WE'll be there, do I need ear plugs? lol

Not unless you dont like Rock N Roll! We wont let Trent near the mic I promise :D

I am still fuzzy on how a 5 mph speed increase will make a change in the current state of competition. Whether the breakout speed of a class is 200 mph or 205 mph, teams will build boats that will exceed the max speed.

Now Johnny before this too out of hand, and its obviously misconstrued by everyone that we are arguing and hate each other(your texts in the past hour show me the true relationship as good friends) but if you have some time, go back in my posts back to 2007 and you will see that I have always called it "computer racing". I raced in it as well, F1 & F2 no longer existed, didnt really have many choices. More importantly, I was able to produce and every now and then surprise surprise, win a championship or two( heres the kicker, they werent National Attendance Awards either lol). Why do you think the manufactures have pulled out? Because the bracket stuff does not showcase how well their product runs against similar products in a hp to hp scenario. I've ran for two major and one custom manufactures through the years and have been in the meetings as to why they have no interest or desire to be apart of our sport any further.

I understand that you are at a disadvantage at seeing what has happened over the years(first hand) with your age, however, do you know what the intent of "Fever Mike", Mr Allweiss, and Mr Miklos was when they created "P-Class"? Did you know the magical 85 speed in OPA was designed around 1 boat? That boat has since retired. When there was 10-15 boats in Class 5, didnt you also agree that there were only two boats that couldnt run 80 safely? Last year the boat count in Class 1 was 2-3, Class 3 was 1(for the better part) Class 4 was primarily 2, Class 5 was 2-3 and Class 6 brought 10-12 consistently. I am talking race in and race out. You dont see a problem? The sport is bigger than you and I and always will be. You and your father are two of the best racers out there.

Your rough water comment... OPA races are run mostly on lakes and rivers bout a 80% to 20% ratio. Call me an idiot, hell I am, but I'm going to build a boat to win 80% of the time and hope and pray my body and boat make it through the 20%........

Call your cousin, call Henderson, go back in your memory, heck call Smitty... Everything I have said, didnt come to me in a dream about last night and posted today. Its been discussed and talked about for years with you among others. I want our sport to be the sport I know it can be and whether I race again or not, I have payed my dues and know a little bit(far from everything) of what is going on. I am not saying my way will fix anything, but merely a suggestion for discussions that need to be had to make our sport better.

Its ok to agree to disagree, and I am a firm believer in the fact of "if it aint broke dont fix it" I'll fill ya in on a little secret.....It's broke. Now how can we cost effectively make it better?

Thats where your suggestion of a max limit comes in... Also my basis is to consolidate classes, which brings more money to each class, which will entice more racers to come out or at least bring some of the parked ones back into action. Look at the avgs above of class count over the whole 2012 season, now class 2 is wanted back and you want to spread it out even more? I'll get on the OPA site and come up with class count averages before the weekend is up in order to produce accurate numbers

Class 2 coming back should eliminate SV...wont really effect anything except making a killer class 2. Id also bet all of the Class 3 boats move up...so were really making 2 classes into one.
All raising speeds will do is eliminate boats. I garuntee there are guys out there that cant afford to buy new props, change gear ratios and build power.
There is absolutely no reason to change anything with 4, 5 or 6.

Who said anything about changing power? That would be the last thing to do...... Like I said before you didnt see a lot of stuff, but your Krypto was run in P4(2003) with a stock sealed 500 EFI against Augie's condo back in the day. Now it has ballpark 650 and has been put in 5.....:confused:

Side note: It won a race or 10

The Krypto isnt the only boat that races these days lol
Take Barry's Cigarette for example, or Whoz Your Daddy, or Country Service in C6...i dont think any of them can just "squeeze another 5mph out and still be competitive.

since your cousin just found out about the boat, I have to go to dinner and kiss some azz but look at my proposal, I said nothing about changing anything but a decal in 6, speeds and 26, no trs, etc etc just change it to 5 and keep at 70

I could have sworn it said we went from 75 to 80. Which (although I could be wrong, and I dont want to speak for Barry or Mike) I doubt they could do with their current setup.
Enjoy your ass kicking :lolhit:

In my opinion speeds are fine where they are. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't have the time or money to go buy new props and start testing set-ups, hell i barely have time to make it to the races as it is. If you look at the boat count, Class 5 has 8+ boats at the races in MD and FL for the worlds. In my opinion, the location of race sites compared to where the racers live is the major contributing factor. For me, I don't have enough time off to travel to Michigan for a weekend race event or the money to have someone pull the boat there for me and I fly with my job, i just cant do it. Unfortunately, and I'm not opposed to criticism, i believe thats the way it is with a lot of the other guys as well. Now i love racing and all the people involved with it and as everyone knows i try to stay out of all the politics that go along with it, so I will continue to do all i can to make as many races a possible and have a blast doing it. Looking forward to seeing yall in AC!

Sums up how I feel too Mikey, see ya soon brotha

Ok here's the avg boat count for the 2012 National tour:

Class 1: 2.2 per race/ 3 total registered
Class 3: 2 per race/ 7 total registered
Class 4: 2.2 per race/ 6 total registered
Class 5: 4.4 per race/ 14 total registered
Class 6: 8.8 per race/ 13 total registered

Source: oparacing.org

Maybe we should let Smitty decide on things and forget what the racers have to say as the above is embarrassing(with the exception of Class 6). Smitty has to go into these race sites, sell OPA and the promoters always want to know "How many boats?" They want a show.... Back in the day the minimum was to have 5 boats in a class and lets use the economy as an excuse, bring that number down to 3, you still have 3 out of the 5 that avg less than 3.

These are the numbers that the check writers(whether its cities or sponsors) look at. Understandably, Mikey as an example, he has a traveling job, half of last year he was in Hawaii, we all work in some shape or form, but I ask again, what are we doing to attract more racers and more fans cause the numbers above, god bless Smitty for putting up with our(including me) horsechit.....

If you are going to use boat count as a measure of what the promoters are looking at, you must include the non bracket classes in your total.

Trent we ALL know why boat count was low at some races last year, specifically three of them in the middle of the season. Its exactly what Mikey said for a lot of teams, myself included. When 90% of the class 5 boats live in place A....and the race is in place B 1100 miles away...well....duh? Which is exactly why Ocean City, Solomons and Florida had great boat counts.
Id bet this year is better, especially with how awesome everyone said Tawas was.

As per your request:

Extreme: 1.2 average per race/ 5 total registered
Super Cat: 2.6 average per race/ 3 total registered
Super Vee: 1.8 average per race/ 2 total registered
SVL: 4.2 average per race/ 9 total registered
Stock: .4 average per race/ 2 total registered

This conversation is a moot point

Just any FYI. St Clair was also up there in boat count. The total boat count per site numbers have actually been damn near close over the past couple of years.

2013

• Ocean City - 31
• East Tawas - 24
• St Clair - 34
• Port Huron - 27
• Smith Point - cancelled
• Solomons - 34
• Jupiter - 50

2012

• Atlantic City - cancelled
• Sunny Isles - 23
• St Clair - 37
• Port Huron - 28
• Sayville - cancelled
• Solomons - 35
• Orange Beach - 27

2011

• Ocean City - 33
• Sunny Isles - 38
• Harrison Twp - 23
• St Clair - 48
• Patchogue - 38
• Atlantic City - 35 (no race)
• Solomons - 29
• Orange Beach - 32

What this post has turned into is a lot of truth .
First class 2 could be a good class if you take the boats that can run it now ie bull on the beach,zipp,tko,smittys, and louie sv now you have a good class rick and i wont be ready for class 2 till next year .
Is this bad for sv yes but since there is only 2 boats its good for the sport and the fans which like to watch load fast boats!

As far as making 6-5 together it could work but you will see the big boats do better in big water this has all been hashed over before.

Just remember the play on words is class 6 is the start up class but horse power runs wild in this class but class 6 is the bread and butter class and will continue to be that and it will get bigger and bigger.

And that term start up has been thrown around tomuch if look at the boats in class 6 most are pure perpose built race boats .

Just remember rule changes are something we dont need a little class movment might not be a bad thing.

Back to the purpose of this post could class 2 work i think so and i think it would be good for the sport and the teams and it could drag some boats out that have nowhere to go.