Twin or single in a 28FT.
 

so i been out keeping an eye out for a 28ft pantera. i see twins and singles motors people are running. any difference in the hulls or are they just rigged with two from the factory.

Nothing beats the sound of twins but. power to weight what boat is faster and more stable?

Any other info is welcome. Thanks Kyle.

Boats are best balanced with the single.

Stringers are different in the twin boats. I thought about twin scorpions in 2000 when I had mine built and I see someone finally did a similar project.

But if I were to own one again I'd go with the single. boats with twins will be faster than a single but does the extra speed outweigh the expense and maintenance of an extra motor, only your check book knows!

I was thinking for trying to find a single just for the fact of only one motor to take care of.

Is the twin engine boats beam any biger?

no

Same hull.
I'd like twin sbc's.
depends on where you are boating.
Inland lakes where help is always nearby, a single is fine too.
BUT, if you throw in a BIG single, maintainence goes up, and the cost of the proper drive to handle that HP goes along w/ it.

Im would say main boating would be on Lake st. Clair and maybe a few trips to Torch lake Mi. a year. then allong with a putin bay run here or their but really no big water. So maybe the great lakes and anything big enough for a 28ft in MI.

Im guessing my power of choice would something along a stock 502 maybe 525hp. Im not one to put a blower or anything on a boat and have a superboat. but want something with rumble that will move out, but not brake every time you get on it. Stock power im guessing is what im looking for or a little more than stock but dont want some major custom motor.

Oh if i was running a single i would be the only boat unless i hook up with somone else since none of my friends have boats and my Uncle never drive his Cig. and Dad said his boat will never see water again unless someone else owns it.

that what im looking for in a boat.
Any idea..

yep, you got a budget?
no comissions, but trying to make match! :)

I'd go with twins, especially if you want stock power. I'm biased though. Also look into 28 apache & saber. Gas is about the same in a 28 twin vs single. I've even heard others say the twin gets better than the single. My 28 with twin 454's gets about the same as my 24 did with a single 502.

Single all the way.

Ask all of the guys who sat all summer cause they had gremlins or had '1' motor go and they have to save up for a new set......

If my motor went I could dump 10k into it and be boating in a month. If my drive went I could bolt on a sparestock bravo get going while my IMCO is getting fixed.

All in all a single engine is the way to go. It gives you wiggle room and extra cash to deal with things breaking which is a very real concern in this sport from what I have learned :eek:

I spoke with JO this week and he thnks with a few minor changes to prop and trim I can get 86mph out of mine with a single engine that makes 710HP. My engine has been very reliable so far this summer (knock on wood).

The boat to buy would be the one with the Panther paint job on the side and the blower motor that was for sale for 75k a while ago. It had a center steer 3 man front bolster with a rear bench....sick....


That thing gave me a serious woody..

It was for sale 2yrs ago for 55.

My dad said the same thing about twins using less fuel than a single. Ive looked into Apache but they seem way over price besides for that one guys that keeps moving it or something but its blue and ive read alot on his boat and just seems like drama. Dont get me wrong i love apache but it just seems like over priced almost a name. i actually descovered pantera through the apache section of this site. also i like knowing that if i have a problem that JO. is willing to help out if he can.

As far as pice i was thinking something in the 30s-40s or little more but. I dont jump on a anything and buy it just because. If i buy its at a great deal, kind of thing. and i do my homework first. Thats the stage im in.

Looking for a crusier dont like the idea of a 3 man bulster boat. i like my room. current boat dont have any room and it sucks when you have 5 people out on it. I know boats arent cheap but its the one sport i love other than cars and im thinking about giving up on muscle cars and divign into offshore boats.

I own a 28 Pantera with a Single Engine - Much easier to work on, esp. doing just basic service stuff... It really depends on where you will be boating - Boating on most Lakes = Single Engine. Boating Off Shore a good ways = Twin Engines. Just incase you have a problem it nice to have the other motor...

How fast do you want to go?
The older (pre TS) 28s need a lot of power to go real fast.
With a single 500HP big block the boat will run about 65mph.
With twin 500HP big blocks, 85+.

Now Pre TS's what years we talking. what cought my eye was the i think 02 all white pantera with twins on the hoist in the for sale section.

i really cant tell on speeds never done a whole lot of boat on a big boat. ya 85 would be nice but.... dont want to freak out the girls. I know it takes money to be one of the fastest but you will never be the fastest there is allways someone faster.

so seeds 65 + i want to be able to hang with the biger boys.

Pat you beat me to it. It's really a Catch 22 with the 28.

It takes a lot of power to move them. So, you'll need a big hp single for decent speeds and you'll have to be good on the sticks or you'll be blowing drives.

If you go with twins stock power can be fast but now you have twice the maintenance and no room in the bilge. Plus many say a single has a little better balance. But you'll split the power between two drives.

Back and forth it goes!

My 28 has a Keith Eickert Blower Motor and with 4 pounds of boost I run 81 and some change with a non-labbed 28 pitch bravo prop - A labbed 30 pitch bravo prop should allow me to run about 84 to 85 - Still waiting on the results of the new 28TS Hull - I would think that the new TS Hull with a stock 525 will run in the mid 70's or so...

TS boats are brand new. I don't think they have delivered one yet.

If you're happy with 65 then a single would suit you fine.

no way!

the one that came up in a thread here a couple of months ago?

man 55k I would have bought it in a second..............:eek:

Well, someone buy my 24 then I'll buy yours and you buy that one! :D

ar, btw, i'd build a new one before buying a used one for 70.
that lifetime warranty don't count if your not #1!
Plus new new new, better than someone elses ________.

And you can fill that blank with what you want, like 'new'.
we all know the tale of what can happen w/ dyno time stuff...
Nice to have a manufacturer to back the equipment.
But we all have our price....

wtf do i know... i dont even own one.

My father saw that boat in person. PM me if you are serious about it. We thought about that one as well. I think I have pictures and I definately did alot of research on that boat and I know alot about it now. I made an offer on that boat which was rejected. It is a great looking boat especially with the scoops on the hatch.....

As far as the Apache, I love Apaches and test drove one and looked at 3 before I bought my Pantera. Iif you have the coin, buy a newer model single engine Pantera with some good power. I know the Apache you are speaking of and I dont think that is the right boat for what you want. But if you have a hardon for it I would do a leakdown test on those motors before I even made a deposit and have a thorough survey as well as making sure the title was in order. I inquired about that boat and there was not alot of info about the motors available. Ask Tex and Apache Brave about getting sweet deals on Brave's and then having a motor let go. With one motor you might still be ok (financially) but with two you are kinda phucked. Both those guys have had a helluva unlucky time with motors (Bill just bought some I think) and I have felt very bad for them.

As far as power, when I was buying my boat, I was given a piece of advice by a world champion offshore racer who happens to be a client of mine. This guy has been over 200mph in a boat so I trust him. He told me to BUY AS MUCH POWER AS YOU CAN POSSIBLY AFFORD.

You can have 700hp and still be reliable if you buy a good engine.

I am not an expert by any means but your situation seems very similar to mine and I thought I would offer some friendly help and advice.

Cheers,

Adam

BTW--Freaking out girls is fun just so long as you are safe:cool-smiley-027:

I agree if you have the coin! But new costs ALOT more and depreciates like a rock the first 2-3 years. I always let the guys with more money buy new. :D

Well that one had a #3 drive on it and a blower motor that made over 800hp if I remember correctly. Cool paint and the cool interior.

70k asking would sound good to me if it all checked out and you could afford it.

when I bought mine I looked at the hardware, race heritage, year and the fact that Pantera rigged and built it for themselves to go racing and win a world championship. I tried to buy the best boat with the most power I could afford. I probably overpaid a bit but phuck it I wanted THAT boat. The fact that it was sitting on a sick MYCO made it even nicer. And it is basically one of a kind.

I dont know much but I sure do like spending someone elses money!! (bad combo....)

I like the way my 28 runs with the single. Probably the best handling boat I've been in. I like the fact that I only have one motor to blow up ( :D )... Email me at PAI_Racing"at" hotmail.com if you want to hear more. I'm thinking I'll probably sell mine (dying to get back into the race car and not time for the boat) and probably in the range you're talking about.

My motor problems aren't quite as bad as Dude Sweet......and he's got the single engine. I fell worse for him because he has year around boating weather. Mine was due to a bad rebuild and I'll be back next season. They are stock engines though, so I could replace both for what you'll pay for a new merc blue engine or the like. I wanted twin small blocks for the cheaper cost of replacement. I could just about replace two 6.2's for what a new 496 cost, but the apache is too heavy for small blocks.

Andy, that cracked me up! I am my motor problem! That boat ran great with the stock 525SC in it. I'm just a monkey and wanted more... :D

I feel your madness :angry-smiley-038: :party-smiley-004:

Ar and OSP, you guys bought great boats from well respected OSO members. So did DS, but he had to go monkey around.
Tomcei on the otherhand bought a project imo, and he knows my opinion. :D
I've priced out new, the way i'd want it. And it is fairly reasonable.
I'd save on the $15k paint job, cuz i want a white boat. Thats a big $.
I personally don't want the 800hp blower motor, i'm not a mechanic.
If i could afford the mechanic to keep my 800 going, i'd probably be able to get twins in a new 35cutdown pantera. :D
I'd just like something reliable that can cruise at 60.

BTW, a nice konrad would be able to do what a #3 can do... if someone can figure how to rig a konrad on a 28.

Hey Storm, It wouldn't mater if I bought new used or whatever, It would always be a project.
I can't leave anything alone for long. Hopefully the boat parts is complete,... the mtr on the other hand, stay tuned:cool-smiley-027:

I can install whatever power a guy wants in my hull for a very resonable price!!

500, 525, ????

Graphics can be removed easily too.

And dont get too hung up on the lifetime warranty, these boats dont need anything as far as fiberglass or gel work. Thats why they can offer the warranty. They are bulletproof!!! Thats what makes them so great.

Tom... you have done an awsome/incredible job on your boat.
I'm glad YOU bought it, and brought it back as it deserves to be!

Getting back to the main topic.
If i can remember right, Jo likes the 28 as a single, and Pepe likes it as a twin. But that might be a marketing ploy. :p

Twin OB's, with extended cockpit if I remember correctly.

The twins do a have a little bit of a porpoise - as do most all boats that size with twins - even the 30ft cig. Nothing the tabs can't handle, but not a lot of fun in flat water.

If I had to do it again I would still go with twins.

The only thing better than one big block is two!!

Stock Power Rules!
IMHO, A 500HP to 600HP single is the way to go.
Twin small blocks 2nd and twin big blocks way last. I had a 28' Cig (same boat) with small blocks that was real PIA to work on. 2 BBC must be ever worse.
You don't buy a 28' Pantera to break speed records; you buy one for the great ride...

Pat, you got that right... The guy who works on my boat told me that if I got one with twin BBs, he wouldn't work on it anymore, no matter what I paid him. I think in any 8' beam, side by side setup you're going to have an accessability nightmare. My buddy with the 'Gun changed his own oil once... And he was a (drag) race mechanic! :D

Great Info guys keep it comming.

Now someone metioned that you would have to be good with the sticks if i was running a single or i might blow the drive out of it. Any detail on this dont most boat come with a over rev protection.

also. if i found a twin, i would like it to be a sbc. setup. Still looking for more info. thanks.

Whose is the yellow one with twins, any pics?

With anything, you're going to have to pay attention on the sticks to avoid blowing a drive if you're running a Bravo. Over rev protection really only works under acceleration load and many boats have it built into the ingnition (mine does with the MSD6ALM box). But that protects the motor, not the drive. The drive gets broken mostly from impact and from not matching revs on re-entry (as well as overheating and oil starvation). You'll see flat water guys blow bravos all the time from running them at high rpms and cooking the bearings out of them.

My advice to everyone boating on a large lake or ocean is to invest in the BoatUS membership that includes vessel assist. It's $150/year or something like that and you get unlimited towing. Coming in on the hook becuase you broke a drive in a single is no more of a headache than coming in at 10 mph off plane because you broke a drive in a twin. Honestly, if you come in on the hook, at least you can just sit in the back and drink beer the whole trip in rather than having to pay attention to what's going on with the boat.

It was for sale in Maryland on Craigs list this spring. No clue who owned it or if it sold. It had 3's on it as I recall. I have a habit of "archiving" photos of 28s when they get posted on the internet so I can id the boat later if it comes up again.