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Is Pantera still around?

Old 08-15-2016, 11:26 PM
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Still Blows me away every month when I open up my free Boating and the other Yachting Magazines to see how many high Dollar boat manufactures are showing up every month.

It's almost like they are in the money laundering business .Who the Hell is buying all these Half million dollar plus 3-4 engine Center consoles.

Not to mention 3/4 million dollar 36 foot sterndrive cruisers that are really 30 feet when you take off the swim platform and the bowsprit.

And now let's design every boat like it just had a high speed collision with a sea wall and put a bunch of ugly picture windows down the side of it to sell it to the wife.


God Boats are Fugly these days.

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Old 08-16-2016, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Dave
Not sure you guys have priced out new boats but they are a fortune.
Not at all surprised to hear a guy is trying to get 135 for a 28 footer - he probably paid 150 or more.

The permits,city fees, random inspections from all sorts of interesting "authorities", manufacturing insurance, zoning problems, labor, workmens comp, engines and drivetrains, material cost have skyrocketed in the last 10 years.

UD

I was nearly a story like Joe myself - I had a kidney removed that was stage 3b with no symptoms in 2012 -I got lucky and found it before it burst and filled my body with cancer. It can happen to anyone.
I dont know about the marine industry but we use epoxy for some of our products here at work....we buy the epoxy/resin in 55gal drums...prices have gone up like crazy...funny thing is in the beginning it was all due to the oil prices going up...now prices have gone down but regulations/permits/fee's/delivery.. etc have gone up and its still mucho expensive! We pay about $6500 for one drum of each (epoxy/resin)!!! And our customers are complaining our costs are too high and want a reduction or they go to china!
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Wally
I dont know about the marine industry but we use epoxy for some of our products here at work....we buy the epoxy/resin in 55gal drums...prices have gone up like crazy...funny thing is in the beginning it was all due to the oil prices going up...now prices have gone down but regulations/permits/fee's/delivery.. etc have gone up and its still mucho expensive! We pay about $6500 for one drum of each (epoxy/resin)!!! And our customers are complaining our costs are too high and want a reduction or they go to china!
It's brutal, although we deal in mostly vinylester which is less expensive it's still brutal- those costs and associated permits with outgassing (AQMD in california) have skyrocketed.
Every single component has nearly double some more so since 08.

Stuff you used to not care so much about like tape - just the cases of tape - to tape out this graphic before gelcoat was almost a grand.
(Solid colors are looking better and better!)

Anything other than white gelcoat is a fortune (like high quality paint) and takes days if not weeks to get.

Engines, drives all up, Basically the whole supply chain subsystem in the industry is up.

Sucks, but until real volume comes back if it ever does prices will continue their upward spiral until only a few sellers remain and only the very very rich will be able to participate.




UD
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisvr6
Yeah, i have like $40k cash to spend on a boat and can not find anything decent. Been looking since may and Had no idea it'd be this hard. Maybe closer to end of summer will get better. Pray for me.
Buy my boat and put stock seats in it. No difference in how the boat is built from the F1 to the Sport. Just little different dash and small cabin area. Anything can be changed to make it pleasure. Just dont want to be the one to turn the notorious F1 boat into a pleasure. But im ok if you do once im paid.

Everyone one i talk to on the lake say they never use the cabin. It fills up with water toys bags and towels. No one actually sleeps in the cabin unless its a emergency.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:54 PM
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The boating market is 100% different in the last 5 years. Im 30 and grew up on Offshore boats. My uncle had Cigarette, and dad had a 85 Chris Craft 390 stinger. You would have never convinced them that twin OB CC is cool. But it was more about the Offshore style boats and going fast.

Now everyone wants to Party and Raft off. So you take the average boater, he will buy a cabin cruiser to pile all his drunk friends and girls on. Or if he wants to go faster and have party he will go with the CC.

Sunsation boats in MI have stopped all production on offshore boats. They only offer CC now. Dealer pricing for a 33ft with twin OB is 225K. Few stories about one dealer just ordered 12 of them!

A 28ft is perfect for me and my area of boating. I would buy a new 28 SR. But build it as a race layup and rigging.... mechanical gauges, heck throw a big carb engine in it to save money on and headake on all the new electronic issues that seem to pop up. Nice drive and small cover girl cabin and be done. I dont need a 50K pain job, 25k interior, 10k GPS, and so on.

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Old 08-16-2016, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Dave
Sucks, but until real volume comes back if it ever does prices will continue their upward spiral until only a few sellers remain and only the very very rich will be able to participate.
UD
It won't come back, it can't at those prices. The younger generation is broke and struggling, those of us anywhere in the greater ballpark of retirement won't drop that coin for a toy. We are solid middle class and purchasing our new Nordic for $64 (or whatever it was) was not a stretch, now double that and we're on the outside looking in.

I'm pissed, boating is in my blood, and I actually think it's in my DNA, the water puts a real zap on me when I'm anywhere near it...I'm obsessed. But this is out of control. Someone will someday come out with a new technique/material to make this affordable but I'll probably be dead by then. Until that time it'll have to be a used boat and we'll have to be committed to continuous upgrades and repairs which will get old after a while.

Signed: Very depressed.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:42 PM
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Well said, sad but well said.

Speed on the Water just had an article about DCB having a new 28 foot cat. Starting price was $215,000. In 1998 I payed less then 1/2 that for my 280 Velocity. My current boat is a user VR 1 Velocity. I am retired now, can't see buying a new performance boat and I sure do not want a fishing (CC) boat. I'll keep the VR1 and send the motors back to Eddie Young when needed or need more speed.
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by slpcamaross97
Sunsation boats in MI have stopped all production on offshore boats. They only offer CC now. Dealer pricing for a 33ft with twin OB is 225K. Few stories about one dealer just ordered 12 of them!
I had to check on that and you are right. I just lost a lot of respect and admiration for Sunsation. http://www.sunsationboats.com/
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by thirdchildhood
I had to check on that and you are right. I just lost a lot of respect and admiration for Sunsation. http://www.sunsationboats.com/
Why??? For keeping the company alive, people employed, producing boats? Sunsation should be praised not dissed! If the market comes back, the molds are there and they can produce off shore boats.

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Old 08-16-2016, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by thirdchildhood
I had to check on that and you are right. I just lost a lot of respect and admiration for Sunsation. http://www.sunsationboats.com/
In the end they need to provide for themselves, their business, and their families. We all know the bottom has dropped out of the offshore performance market and is trending to more utilitarian and reliable platform as the boating demographic ages. I think they're running with the curve and others like *insert name here* are long gone.
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