Prop help for Arneson ASD6
 

I'm running a 28 pitch four blade 14.5, I'm feeling that this is not enough diameter, As I trim up to 0 or 1 on my drive indicator prop seems to spin out and boat slows down. I've found a four blade cleaver used 28 and 34 pitch on Imco Marine, but not sure if this will help me.. Anyone have any ideas on a reasonibly priced prop that would help me.
Thanks

what HP?

400

Diameter is the KEY. I have 450 HP and have had good success with a 17-17.5 diameter wheel. The pitch is about right @ 28 .

Thank you! Now any ideas where I can find a used one at a reasonable price?

are you running an asd6 or 1721? spline count? ur drop ratio is 1.5:1 ? twin or single engine and if single RH or LH? whats a reasonable price?

Its a single engine, as for asd6 or 1721, not sure, I just replaced the skeg tube and shaft last year through Rik from Arneson I know it's RH and the hub insert is a Mercury square hub I believe for the prop to work that I have.. The spline count is 19.. And reasonable price I have really no clue because I can't find one, and I know Rik said they cost a couple grand, if that the case OUCH.. haha.

TURBO.......there are a couple of us that are in the same position as you i also have 19 spline it is tough to find a big dia. wheel for that spline. Speed and Custom marine sells adapters to go from 19 to 26 spline and that gives you ALOT more prop choice but 450.00 for a adapter plus figure 2000 for a wheel as well.

boat size? top speed?

I have some real surface drive props.. there not speed master choppers.. they are hi rake 3 blade rolla's. they are not cheep.. there larger with less pitch... when twin disk first tested the asd 6 they ran the same exact prop's got 88mph out of 450hp running 21 3/4 x 21% pitch..... there's lots of data to say that boats ran better with hi rake from planing at a lower rpm to less prop slap..



I have one RH 21 3/4 x 18% pitch
I have one very scary looking LH 21 1/2 x 22% pitch with lots of cupping
I have a set of 21 3/4 x 21% pitch....

all are 19 spline.. Hi rake is what arneson sold and pushed supported by B/W & T/D test data b4 adapters were sold....

I'm looking for LH or RH props 21" and 1/2 or 3/4 in size....I'd like to find LH 18% 19%, 20% or 23%,, or RH 19%, 20% or 23% so I can test props when I run my boat. every thing I have is for sale but till I run my boat the props I have are not cheep..:drink:

a chopper 17 to 18" with much more pitch then a hi rake will be fine and cheaper. An inch of prop is worth 2% of pitch so at 17" you'd need to be 27 to 30% of pitch for 400 to 500hp...

seems the draw back to the merc prop is size finding props over 18 made for an O/B as I read about lots of guys gunning 17" with 33% or 35% and no matter the hp increase only more pitch is added.. or maybe its prop shape? and need to be small to get rid of slap... who knows.

I'd let my props go for 1000 for a single or 2000 for the matched set...

My boat size is 27ft, I was told from Rik that in 1979 when this boat came out it would run mid 70's with a stock 454. My little prop is holding it way back can't trim up far without spinning the prop most I can get it to bite at is 4100rpm, gps at 54mph.

Just remember that the rpop is everything when you start thinking cheap. It would be like putting crappy tires on a 1000hp race car. Doesn't matter what you got if you can't use it. In a prop you could have alot more problems to if the prop isn't balanced correctly you could chance tearing up even more. I would see where tomuch stuff is located and go and do a test and tune with him and his props and then choose the one you like, or get an adapter then hit up bblades to get something perfect for your boat. Might try calling brett just to see if he has anything laying around the shop 920-295-4435. They even have the test program where you can try different props for $40 a prop then they deduct the test fees off the purchase price if I remember right.

They have nothing in a large diameter.. 15 5/8inch 26pitch 5 blade all they have and won't have it for a week or so. And at that I don't believe it will get me on top of the water. Kyboy

Well squash that idea....cant beleive they don't have any as many performance and race boats as they deal with...try the other guy out.

Getting a propeller is tough but here are a few idea's.

Outboard propellers. I make an adapter to put these on the ASD6 and 1721 drive units.

Hering makes a 15.5" outboard propeller that is a full cleaver 5 blade design. Looks SEXY and can be made to fit your drive.

The old Rolla 3 blade "Record" propellers which we refer to as "Chopper Prop's" or "Elephant Ear Prop's" these are a NiBrial propeller that cost $600.00 each new so they are not expensive and not sought after much as the 3 blades vibrate.

Bravo propellers, the same outboard adapter will fit the Bravo style propellers. Hering makes a new 7 blade so that would be a good prop even-though there is not a lot of diameter, 15.5....

So rik are u saying that 17 is enough prop diameter for him... I know turbo and his setup looks just like the picture on the far right. The unpainted looking boat.....

i would think 17 or 17.5 would be VERY close

Got Hering propellers working on it...

arneson props
 

PM me with a number, I'll give you my dad's phone number, he has 2 four blade round ears and a 3 blade cleaver, don't know the sizes, he has been looking to sell.

17" Diameter? Depends upon the blade #. You would be able to get away with more diameter with less blades. Meaning a 17" 3 blade will work better than a 17" 5 blade as the more blades and more diameter cause a lot of stern lift. But then again, I would not use a 3 blade nor a 17" 5 blade.

For the $$ those old 3 blade Chopper Prop's ran very well. There was a company in Louisiana called "Haas Propellers" that made a 4 blade chopper prop in S.S.... They are no longer in business though. Those prop's gave tremendous bow lift and such on boats.

Someone needs to make a 4-5 blade chopper prop. There are a lot of boats with different drives that could use them. They are not for 100+ mph but for boats under 90ish they work wonderfully.

Where can I get old rolla 3 blade "record" propellers for $600 each? I need three...

Larry

Search around. There are some around, maybe not the size you want but they made tons of them, literally, tons.

I am sorry Rik by your quoted post below. I thought you knew where to buy the props "new" for $600 as you posted.

Rik
"these are a NiBrial propeller that cost $600.00 each new"

You don't have to look around for "new" most of the time you can go to the source,, aren't Rolla and Arneson both owned by twin disk?
Are you not for that fact the source for rolla propellers in the usa?
Or do I have call twin disk direct to buy rolla propellers?
This strikes me odd Rik if rolla / twin disk / arneson can build a direct fit prop for an arneson drive for $600 new, why do you make an adaptor?
Seems the last time I checked brass go's for a lot $$$$ more then stainless and a 17 inch prop is much less heavy then a 21 inch so from a raw material cost it be cheaper to make merc style props over hi rake or cleaver?
May be now that were talking about rolla you can also explain why on rolla's web site the smallest offered propeller is 28 inches in size?
Why they no longer offer a high rake prop on there web site at all?
And last why there email address dose not work?

I'd like to ask them prices and if they still offer a 21" calling them may cost as much as a prop...


I keep my eyes open..
There was a set of rollas listed on ebay for $3000 reportadly at 50% off there cost new $6000, they were 20 x 25% or some thing off an intrepid running cat diesels 450hp. That is all I have seen listed on ebay and C/L in the last 12 months.. The only other one I have seen I pulled off the 1721 I removed from a fishing boat for my cigarette yesterday.



Rik any help you can give me finding some old rolla's will be killer
thanks Rik..


Larry

size? rotation? spline? price? brand?

it all stamped on the hub

(954) 552 4562
Larry

Larry, those propellers were made back in the early 80's and they were $600.00 new back then. They no longer make them and they destroyed the thousands of them they had in containers a few years ago so we can no longer sell those.

Now, they can be made by other companies though, and of those that were sold they pop up for sale. Just because it is on Ebay does not mean they list the truth.

Rolla does not make them as there is no market for them. Hering will make you a prop you can use.

So then you can not buy "new" rolla 3 blade record high rake propellers any where for $600 any more, there very rare and hard to find in the right size.

that is what you were saying right?

That is to bad..
that is why its so hard for me to finish my pitch range for testing..

Or Wow I mean
Every thing I have read about rolla dating back in to the 80's says they were some of the best if not the best props made, That there only draw back was there cost of an imported prop... So seeing as arneson and rolla are both owned by twin disk.. You cant be saying the very good brand Rolla was the maker of cheap $600 junk props that were not worth there weight in scrap.. are you? I will take your word after all Rik you do work for twin disk..


I am still going to run the rollas I have be4 cashing them in with the junk man.. I'll will post how they work 4 better or worse.. be nice to test some O/B prop side to side..

Your right about what you hear on line Rik 99% is not true..

That Hering is sexy, think they will sell me one for $600???

Thanks Larry

Larry, you seem to have a very strange grasp on life. I've said what I've said, no need to have you speak my words for me.

What the relevance of inflation and time have upon quality, which are mutually exclusive to one another, is a hard cold stretch.

Rare, nope and not to the extent that it could justify the price you have for yours on Ebay. You want more for yours than they cost new and that is the point I have made. Any reference to quality, I'll defer to you to make that assumption. Also, I've never seen any propeller that was worth more for its scrap value than it's sale price. Come to think of it no item made is that was other than the U.S. penny and that is why the U.S. Mint changed the construction of our penny from Copper to Copper plated Zinc.


Larry one lesson you can learn here on line for free in regards to propeller technology. It is first and foremost a "Black Magic Science" and I am not typing that in a racial manner; rather there are no set rules of nature that say they must be made on in only one particular shape or size. They are only made with what the latest empirical data of the designers have at their limited or vast disposal, and Propeller technology is ever evolving due to the wonderful world of competition.

So to dumb it down, no 30 year old propeller is not going to be able to out perform a new modern designed (which will also be outdated next week) propeller. Even a new outboard propeller such as the Pro ET for example could out perform the antiquated 3 blade chopper prop based upon all around performance. http://www.mercuryracing.com/propellers/proet.php

This propeller will fit your drive unit with the proper adapters.

Hering's prices reflect the modern cost of production. Go 30 years into the future and see what the inflation index says they would cost and the $600 argument becomes null and void.

Those old 3 blade chopper propellers work amazingly well for what they are but like any old propeller they were only as good as the technology, both design and manufacturing, the manufacturer had at their disposal at that time. A 4 blade design will work even better, and on some boats a 5 blade design would work even better again.

450hp rick
cheep prop rick
one prop rick

That is what this cat was asking for
not the black art of blowing 3000k so he'd have it almost right..

I told the guy I do not want to sell my props b4 testing but will part...

I will not be the fastest boat on the water so i am not worried about 1/2 or even 3 knots from a prop... if i can match the test data I pulled I can move 88mph and that is fine by me...

the guy who started the post wanted a bigger prop not to pull 3knots out of a tuned set up... do not get lost here...


as far as your value on my props you seem to have a very strange grasp on life rik. if no one has them but me they cost and are worth what I ask.. if a custom is 2k I am cheep.. if know one buys them it changes nothing..
its just like all them drives arneson has back stocked you have bought them at your asking price till they sell... and you place value on them, if not there only worth there weight in scrap or sure plus, to day about 3 or 4 k for a new system. you may not even get that if you have more then one..


as far as the pricing you toss around..
you did not know what a brass 1720 looked like when the other oso member sent you photos and you told him he was buying asd6 but you know what a rolla cost in 1980 :bsflag:

Talk about a forum that has gotten taken away from the general question...rik I read your article in powerboat magazine a few months back so I really appreciate and respect your input. You built arneson from scratch as a hobby so I am hoping you know what you are talking about haha.

Do 3 blades cause any sort of vibrations on surface drives like they do on regular drives. I have never had a smooth feeling 3 blade. The prop turbo has now has some crazy cupping on the blades that I have never seen either. We are running a poker run next weekend so we were hoping to find him a prop by then. Sounds like herring will work with us and they have a prop testing program also.

Larry, the drives you have cost less than $2,000.00 new in 1979 and if you know more about them than me then congrat's to you. I really don't feel it's worth arguing about. If you want to charge a fortune for your goods, then it's all good and I hope you the best in your pursuit of profits.

The 3 blade designs vibrate more than a 4 or 5 or even 6 blade design just like on any drive as you noted. You can feel it in the floor and the seats when running.

The only 3 blade design that I've seen to be smooth are the high helix design from Vilwok/Elstrom.

That prop Ray is using has an unusual casting and I don't know if Ray had it mounted in the absolute correct position on the drive unit. It should have rested on the taper of the shaft and the pic's Hering sent me it was positioned at the end of the splines. This is not ideal.

Hering can custom make virtually anything as they have the capabilities at their finger tips. That link I posted to the Merc Pro ET propeller is, while not the ultimate, available and only cost about $800.00 from Merc. Not a bad deal for a four blade propeller. If.... Someone like Scott Baker or Brett Anderson can add some diameter to the propeller then it would be even better.

That new 7 blade Hering has to be worth trying, I wish Hydromotive made their 6 blade as an over the hub exhaust design. I've ran the 4 blade Merc outboard propellers and they were not bad either.

Well, Saturday the Hill Propeller I had bit the dust! Lost a blade so much for cast mold props.. And after speaking with Hering I'd love to have the prop they quoted me but I just can't budget it at the moment.. I lost a motor last month, and now my prop.. Hey Rik will you give me a call about my prop how it is sitting on the shaft and I think when I blew the blade off it blew a seal I lost all my fluid.. I left you a message at 11:30am central time Thanks Steve

How much did Hering quoting you for the prop?

Thought we were talking about propellers? ur funny

so whats worth $2000 my 1720's or asd6's? I know there both worthless :drink:

My point is you say you know what the 1720's cost, but just do not seem to know what they look like or how they worked with gas boats in 1979.....

Most guys are not building boats to run in the 150 to 200mph range.. Old race data can make you much faster with proven parts then a half a$$ hi tec rig you can not afford...

You title at twin disk lends you credibility just like the sales guy in the pluming department at home depot, un-till you can find the part, do not know what the part dose, and un till you do not know what the part costs. Like a waiter chinese restaurant you seem to point at the hi price dish on the menu when asked whats good.... Fine as that me be its kinda generic...

Our words are on the web for ever, U have posts back to 07 that can be fact checked. One untruth can make all truth questionable and damage your credibility and the brand you represent...

And you do represent Arneson on the web by interjecting your position at twin disk.
I represent no one I am just a screen name, not even a person... I can be wrong from time to time but I do not pretend to be all knowing or an expert.. The values I place on the things I have I based on what I am willing to sell the for. By your words No one has them to offer not arneson or rolla or any 3rd party's so your point is truly pointless..

I use 19 spline x 1 1/4 diameter shaft 3 blade cleavers that were 17 " diameter . These were offshore mercury props that were about 2000 new, you can usually find them used in the 500 to 1000 dollar range.

$3000.00.........

Have you tried, http://www.pacificsurfacedrivesinc.com ?

He has a good selection of the old three blade Rolla type that Rik is talking about. I payed 500$ for mine. Just like Rik said. He let me try two and send back the one I didn't like.

Talk to Mitch Hall lately?


Jeff

We picked us a 27 pitch 3 blade to try our from a local store yesterday....may have to hit up that website though. Don;t think 27 is going to be enough but atleast he can get it on the water this weekend.

I'll give them a call tomorrow, thanks Jeff, And yes I talk to Mitch alot, he has actually gave me your phone number to call you about props, but I never did..

arneson 1720
 

Guys
I have been reading information on arneson surface drives, and it appears I have a older #1720 Alum. bronze drive. It has a 19 spline prop shaft which appears to be 1.25" dia. Can you puchase adapters to convert the 19 spline 1.25" shaft to the 19 spline 1.5 " shaft?
where and how much $?

Sorry if question seems a little vague.
Hell of a site, and very informative
cheers from down under

Yes, we make them for a 19 to 26 tooth (Enables one to run a Merc #3, #5 and an Arneson ASD6 with a current Mercury or Hering or? #6 Spline Propeller)

Being you have a 1720, it is an "in-line" drive and has no reduction nor rotation built into it. Are you running a 1:1?

Also measure the hub length

Keep in mind, CURRENTLY, Mercury only makes standard order 30" and higher pitch propellers.