5.3 LS into a Four Winns U17 - Build Thread
 

Hi Everyone,

As promised in EFI Fuel Plumbing - Best Practices, I will use this thread to chronicle the installation of a 5.3 LS engine into my Four Winns U17. I blame/credit Tim Moore and his Skater for inspiring me to start this project. :cool:

Here is the plan:

Engine
- Stock 5.3l LM4 engine from a Trailblazer
- Holley Fuel Injected Intake Manifold w/4150 throttle body. This moves the spark arrester from the front of the engine to the top. This helps with packaging in the small engine compartment…and I think it looks cool.
- Holley Fuel Rails to go with the above intake manifold.
- Holley HP ECU
- Truck Oil Pan, the LM4 oil pan is a bit shallow for my liking.

Mounting
- VP SBC bellhousing
- Custom fabricated front engine mounts. (I ordered a PAYR plastic engine to help in this effort)
- VP coupler that is used on their LS based engines.

Cooling System
- Johnson Pumps F6B-9 raw water pump. I’m planning on using an aftermarket harmonic balancer to drive it.
- Hardin Marine’s Closed Cooling System. Credit must be given to Scott Price at Hardin. He has answered all my questions quickly and in great detail. He definitely earned my business.

Exhaust
- Marine Power LS1 Manifolds
- Fabricated O2 sensor spacer

Here is the boat...
http://i.imgur.com/avjrkgL.png

Stay Tuned,
Eric

Front Motor Mounts
 

The original rubber engine mounts were starting to show signs of wear. Volvo Penta used an oddball mount that would cost $250+ to replace. I decided to convert it to a mercury style mount and ended up buying these: http://www.hardin-marine.com/p-13539...ine-mount.aspx. Oooohhhh Shiny. I have to remake the stringer mounts for these too, but I don't expect that to be terribly difficult.

Here is the motor mount I designed to connect it all together. I'm currently planning to make everything out of 3/8" HSLA. I'm 3D printing all the parts before I spend money on steel and laser time. I should have those done next week to prove out the design.
http://i.imgur.com/heoLrq2.png

More updates next week.
Eric

Cool project, good luck. I'm putting 2 5.3's in a 28 pc formula soon.

cool project, i got a lq4 that i plan on putting in my h210, ill be watching this for sure. cant wait to see how it goes

You won't even put one 5.3 into a Dodge Dakota.

Cuz I have too many of these damn boats to work on lol

Just an FYI, Summit makes an SFI Balancer that has the SBC/BBC bolt pattern in it. I used it on my LS swap into my Checkmate to run a similar Jabsco pump. The part # is SUM-C2500 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-c2500. A less expensive alternative to the ATI's.

http://s25.postimg.org/ym18otvpb/image.jpg

http://s25.postimg.org/55lmmepbz/image.jpg


I then built a bracket that bolts to the stock A/C bracket location to hold the housing of the pump. I'll snap some pics when I go out and tinker with the boat later.

Very cool project! I have a U-19 that I bought new in 1996. I've been updating it for the life of the boat. Switched it to MPI sequential injection and larger injectors, SS headers, Edelbrock intake and throttle body. Also noseconed the Volvo Penta DuoProp gearcase. With all that, I've only seen 75 MPH on GPS. I would love to put a LS in it! Can't wait to watch your build! Cheers, David

Cool build, looking forward to it. I wish a lot of that stuff was available 6 years ago when I put the LS in my jet boat. Would have made life a lot easier.

Thanks Corey, pictures would be great. Thanks for the link to the summit damper too. I'm assuming you didn't use the keyway?


Very cool Taboma. I kind of regret not buying the U-19, but they wouldn't fit in my old garage. I love your Skater by the way.

I printed the engine mount yesterday. I'm happy with the design, just needs to be tweaked a bit more. (don't judge the bilge, you'll be able to :eating: off it in a few weeks.)

http://i.imgur.com/1gCgCUL.jpg

Next updates: Laser cut motor mounts. Machine new stringer mounts.

Eric

I actually did use the keyway. My motor is a LS2 that has been stroked to a 408 and the Callies crank shaft I used was keyed.

Here is the bracket I built. Its not the prettiest. But when I finally see that it all works, I'll build a nicer new one.

http://s25.postimg.org/n8gi1jghr/image.jpg


Here is how I got around using a circulating pump. Moroso makes some adapters that takes the LS water pump openings to a standard BBC. So I used those and ran a Hardin stainless crossover. Moroso also makes a Remote Thermostat housing that I mounted to the back of my seat so I was able to keep all my hoses equal length keeping water pressure equal to both sides of the engine.

http://s25.postimg.org/4t57vmh4v/image.jpg

Here is a pic of my motor after I dropped it in a week or so ago. Same thing, don't judge my bilge area. I am just getting it running for this season, then next fall the motor will come back out and I'm repainting the bilge and re gel coating the transom because I'm also adding k planes, hydraulic steering and an aluminum swim platform.

http://s25.postimg.org/x7anfi4ov/image.jpg


If you have ay questions about what it takes to make a marine LS motor, don't hesitate to ask. I have been working on this for over a year now. I am within a week or so of having it all done and water testing. Pretty much just waiting on my new gauges to get here.

Thats awesome! :D

Awesome keep the updates coming!

Corey, don't forget to put that stuff in your build thread, so someone following that doesn't miss any of it when referenced. Thanks !

That is one heck of a build Corey; very clean and well thought out!

I really like your cooling system. I was struggling with what to do with cooling until I stumbled on Hardin's closed cooling system. It has a lot going for it, but your solution looks lighter and cheaper. I need to do more research on crossover systems....I don't know anything about them. I'm really excited to get your feedback once you get a few hours on it.

Where do you plan on mounting your power steering pump? Off the AC pulley? I've been trying to pick what alternator/ps mount to go with. I never thought about just running two belts.

Thanks,
Eric

My original plan was to modify the factory AC bracket to mount the PS pump, but I decided to go a totally different route. I'm either going to be an idiot or a genius, lol. I'm trying an Electric/hydraulic PS pump out of a 2001 Toyota MR2. A lot of guys in the electric vehicle world run them so I did a lot of research on it before I went for it. They actually put out the same amount of pressure as any marine pump I can find. They can pull up to 40amps which is why I went with a 200 amp 1 wire marine alternator.


My cooling system was a lot cheaper than the closed cooling, and the fact that my boat will never see salt or brackish water, I didn't see the need to spend the money on the Hardin system. Plus, coming from a engineer/fabricator background, I like the challenge of building and designing my own stuff. Plus, when I'm talking about it (showing it off) at the dock, it makes me feel good to say "I built that" instead of "I bought that". Now I just pray it all works!!! Lol.

I removed the factory aluminum stringer mounts tonight with plenty of pb blaster, leverage, and swearing (Red Wings game may have had something to do with that). I need to call around tomorrow to find aluminum to make new ones. I'm replacing all the washers with a backer plate while I'm at it.

I scored an LS truck Power Steering/Alternator mounting bracket (GM PN 12554030). This is the same bracket that VP uses on their V8-380. VP wants $500 for their alternator, thankfully Arco sells one for $220. The bracket mounts a Saginaw type 1 PS pump. I might get lucky and be able to use the old pump...otherwise a new one isn't too much.

The last accessory to figure out is the raw water pump. Here are the options I'm weighing to drive it:

Summit Racing Damper SUM-C2520 (thanks for the suggestion Corey)
PowerBond Damper - PBU1190SS25
(note these are for LS Truck accessory drives)

or...MarinePower makes a neat crank adapter that is sandwiched between the stock damper and crank bolt. This is definitely the cheapest option, but I would have to hunt down the proper length crank bolt. I asked MarineEngineDepot if they had the crank bolt for this part...but haven't gotten a response yet.

MarinePower 512601

I'm leaning towards the PowerBond or Summit Damper at this point.

Hopefully my next update will be a bit more exciting. Stay tuned...

Eric

Great Post and project !!! FYI...I am using those same Johnson Crank Driven Water Pumps on my twin Vortecs in a Formula 255 Liberator...Tin Bravo I's. They work GREAT...good choice!!

Just make sure that you carefully set them up to spin true. Any wobble will shake like crazy.

Thanks Sprink...any advice on how to set them up to spin true? I was planning on the trial and error method. :)

Sure...scribe or draw a line thru the center line of the pulley/damper. Once you get that set you can't miss...I think there's a 3: hole flange on the pump. Tighten them down uniformly and you should be "Cross Hairs" on.

I know on my pump, it has .5" bolt holes, but the holes on the balancer are 5/16" or 3/8" thread. So I bought some shoulder bolts from McMaster Carr to make sure it centered and stayed centered.

head way?

It's going, just a bit slower than I want. I'll have a real update hopefully at the end of next week.

I sold the old Ford 5.0 block to one of my wife's coworkers. Mrs. Enginerd got the failed piston out of the block without my knowledge...and made this sweet trophy. Easily one of the best gifts ever. I'll post a picture of the top of the piston on the next update.

http://i.imgur.com/f78tCft.jpg?1

Hey Everyone,

Progress is still being made, albeit slowly. Here is a "better" photo of the cylinder above as promised.

http://i.imgur.com/qF4ocUAb.jpg

Progress I made since last posting:

- Finished the engine mounts, minus paint.

http://i.imgur.com/FIYNip0b.jpg

- Cleaned bilge
- Removed fuel tank for cleaning.
- Stringer engine mounts are have been machined and ready to mount.
- Started learning the holley EFI software. Have a base tune ready...I think.

Next steps:
-Paint bilge
-Test fit engine
-Purchase manifolds and design/fab O2 spacers

More later...
Eric

She is a keeper. Your wife that is!

Hey Everyone,

We're getting closer, but ran into a few bumps.

I tore apart the motor this week and started replacing gaskets and seals. The local machine shop is cleaning up the heads. I should have the motor back together this weekend.

http://i.imgur.com/0Oap0zT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6nKDq0V.jpg


Unfortunately my plan to use the Summit Racing Damper SUM-C2520 with the Johnson F6B-9 raw water pump is not going to work. The pumps flange is too large for damper. The damper is 25% under driven, but that is all I’ve found for the LS truck motors. So I'm back to the drawing board. :poopoo:

http://i.imgur.com/i837EHr.jpg

Here is what I'm thinking...

- Replace the flange on the F6B-9 pump to fit the smaller bore of the damper. The shaft on the pump looks like it was swedged onto flange. I’m guessing I'll ruin the pump if I try.

- Switch over to “f-body”/Camaro damper and accessories. Summit and others (like Corey suggested) make a non-overdrive dampers, Summit Racing Damper SUM-C2500. This would require me to abandon the truck style alternator and power steering.

- Help?? I'd appreciate any thoughts you gents might have.

Thanks,
Eric

the block has 3 or 4 threaded bosses where the factory ac compressor sits. could you make a braket and mount it there. and use the normal sea pump that has holes for a bracket. run it off ac compressor belt groove. thats what i planned on doing when i go bravo.

I thought about mounting a pump where the factory AC compressor sits, similar to Hardin Marine's LS Sea Water Pump . However, I think it'd be a bit of a pain to work around the Hardin Marine LS closed cooling kit.

I abandoned the truck accessories and ordered Holley's Alternator and PS Bracket. I'm exchanging the truck damper [Summit SUM-C2520] for the corvette damper [summit SUM-C2501]. This should have plenty of room for the raw water pumps mounting flange. Shortening the motor by 1.5" won't suck either.

I also ordered a marine alternator [Arco 60076] that should bolt to Holley's bracket.

Finally, I'm getting back my heads from the machine shop tomorrow. The goal of the weekend is to have the engine mostly reassembled. Keep me accountable guys...I can use all the motivation I can get. :)

Updates?

I put a 4.8 in my Wellcraft, hooked up to an Alpha drive. My engine came out of a 2001 Silverado, I kept the truck accessory drive and mounting brackets.

Using closed loop with two 155kBTU titanium heat exchangers I bought off ebay. The Alpha drive doesn't provide sufficient water flow, and I also went the F6B pump route. You can use the March Performance 355 Crankshaft adapter to provide a mount for the water pump to the crankshaft, you will have to grind it some to get the adapter to fit all the way into the truck balancer. The only attachment issue is that the center hole on the 355 is slightly smaller than the center hole on the F6B, so you will have to fabricate an adapter to ensure that the pump is centered on the adapter. I made mine out of PVC plank, there's no load on it, and it's only to center so you can torque the bolts down on the adapter.

So glad I found this thread as I'm considering building a 408ci LS stroker for my 24 Pantera. It would start out as a GM 6.0L Iron LQ4 block, I would go with LS3 heads, a carb, edelbrock intake, MSD ignition control, and lightning LS headers. Not sure on the cam at this point as I'm still looking on seeing what's out there that will work for a marine LS build, might have to call Bob at Marine Kinetics for a custom grind. I've been doing all the research I can on building a marine version of a LS engine but there's not all that much out there.

lots of tow boat use them. their was another guy on here that did a 408 in a checkmate if i recall. he had revision issue on the lightning headers, he also had a pretty stout cam if i recal, i think their is some manifold style ones. and some shorty style header ones as well

Thanks for the heads up! I'm not looking to go crazy with the cam as I know I would be running wet exhaust and do not want reversion issues. There are a few manifold/riser exhausts on the market for LS engines, but with the prices they are asking and the larger displacement of the stroker engine I think full tube headers would be the way to go. Currently making a list of what I want then I will price it all up and see where it's at compared to a regular non-LS Dart SHP blocked 406 or 427 sbc stroker.

I'm parting out my scarab that I put a 5.3 in. Lightning headers for sale. Every thing but pistons and rods exploded a piston

that`s Scott`s boat. Didn`t know he had reversion issues. I`ve driven his boat, screaming fast and run it WOT for extended period no problems. Just talked to him a few weeks ago, he said he swapped out the smal lblock and has a stock 496 in the boat. Tried uploading my video from youtube but it doesn`t let me. What`s the issue here

For some reason links only show up when quoted.

is that Scott thats in Vancouver BC? with a big Hallett?
I know him haha
i was meaning a 408 stroker ls2, a different guy

corey331. He's on this thread.

where did you get that flame arrestor? do you have a link or part number?

Yes it is Scott with the 34 HALLETT I found for him in California.Here's the Hallett before the wrap.Looks like you have to quote me to see the YT video. What 's up OSO, not allowed to upload my own video here?