I am used to that. Lets run SV. I'll let you tech my stuff. I aint scared of the Big Green boat.... I looked at your speeds from Pickwick. We ran the same speeds last year. Of coarse, we were Cheating. Ha Ha....Smitty

I don't know how to tech but if you want we can switch engines (Like I suggested to Joe and Michael) or just run with Yatchs.
Are you really going down there because I am for sure.
Brett

Smitty this green boat.
You and Yachts are the only ones not scared then?????
Would be nice to see some more boats!!!!

Expo...

Its pretty simple....we all are running around from 97 to 100 mph with the 1:50 gear....the newer Super Vees are running over 110 mph...with some running as fast as 113+...

Muscle is not running faster then 105 and with 1:35 gears...when he gose to the 1:50 gears he is around 102 or so....

We are trying to keep the speeds at 100 or less...we also have guys in the class that are running open cockpits...so safety is being look at stronger...

Brett
So you, Nigel and a few other can run Super Vee or P1 but again...taking a 110 to 115 mph boat and proping down to run under 100 is just sandbagging....step up and run your boat for the speeds you can run....

and again....the teams that want to run with us have no problem with the 1:50 gears...its the guys who are not racing or have a 110+ mph boat that want to sandbag 10 mph have the problem....

Hell you guys have it made...there is Bret, Smitty, the Frenchman and Nigel...there is 4 SV right there...kep your class going....

Remember Brett....me and you were running deck to deck in your old boat in Ft. Myers...why did you stop racing that boat....it wouldn't be becasue it was not compeditive anymore against Smitty and the new Outerlimites....

Deep pockets will keep you compeditive in Super Vee...
But in the Class we are tallking about a 4 year old Donzi and a new race team with a open cockpit took 2nd in Miami....

Gino, We have 525's in the 35' SV, no big power, we are good for 104-105 in class 2 which is where we have to be to be competitive. Thats why I think the GPS bracket racing is so popular. To have true parity, you would have to run the same hull against the same hull. That is the demise of the V hulls and the savior of the S-cats. Phantom makes a real fast SVL but in SV they had a tough time keeping up. So pump up the power a bit and the problem is solved. Pump it too much and you get protested or break out. Real simple, no pulling motors, no accusations after a race.You dial it in right and there is some great racing. OPA style!! I think your on the right track, thanks for your positive input.
Louie
PS. A supervee that runs 107 would be creamed in P-1, but prop it to 105 it's golden.

louietherigger,

I thought you guys were running JC engines....thats why I said big power...

with most of us we are only running 100 to 101 on a lake...
in Destin we did not even see 90 even when it was around 2 to 3"s...this is how most of the older SV are runnning...

If your running 104-105 with 1:35 gears..then you would fit right in with the 1:50 gears....even if your running 103 with 1:50's that would still put you in with us....

Black Perl is another boat that fits right in...you see if we all ran together and topped it off at 100..which unless its calm...none of us will even see 100...you will see a lot of deck to deck racing...same HP, same acceleration to a point...you will see this in Sarasota....if you can make the race it woudl be great...I will be in O/C for that race the week before Sarasota...

Another great boat will be the Billy's Wanted SV...he would fit right in...
There are a number of Manufatures boats out there that will fit right into this class...

Phantom
Cig
Bad Boys
Dragon
Donzi
Fountain

with very low cost....we only run 42 miles...so its not so hard on the equipment....

Brett has proven he can win with many, many people. Bret is a true competitor - After this Guy was "let go under agreement... yeah, right" I started a dialogue with Brett - he is a great Guy having a great time. He races clean and tries to promote the sport and everyone that has raced with him (after "EXPO) has no axe to grind with anyone that I can see, I had a blast with all of them, except this Guy who clearly needs medication.

The only reason anyone even knows his name is because of Brett's good equipment, and Brett's talent, and Brett giving him an opportunity - somewhere along the way he forgot who was in charge, and who ran the show, and who was to speak when spoken too, so he got slapped down by the Boss who wantas to keep the Sponsors happy - good choice Brett.

I won't be furthering this exchange out of respect to Ken Doyle. The new class will be KILLER. I hope to make the Saraasota Race and if we win or get smoked at least we will have an opportunity for a win, which, I think is the idea behind the class.

Nice work Ken, Gino, and how about David Branch and Special K stepping up - and you know Delaney won't stand for this crap in his backyard - all great competitors.

Gregg Reichman

Sorry Ken D, you asked us both to drop the smack talk and it is apparent some people cant read. So this is in response to Mr Bidpro

Bidpro, aka Gregg Reichmann

As you are apparently not as smart as you think you are lets set the story straight.
I raced before I raced with Brett. Brett is a great racer and friend to many and will help whenever and whoever he can.
I raced against Brett before racing with him and was a part of other teams.
Yes Brett gave me a chance to race with him and I di so for somewhere around two seasons. In the time that I raced for Brett I took care of the boat so thank you for the comment "he had great equipment". I dont know how you race but i do beleive that it takes 2 people to race and if it was all Brett ability then it was also mine. Dont get me wrong Brett is a great racer and I have all the respect in the world for him and always will. I also have friends in racing that will gladly speak for my ability to race other than Brett..
Since you seem to know so much about how I was supposedly "smacked down by the boss" why dont you enlighten us.
You on the other hand can't ever seem to take things as smack talk and want to try and make it personal. I have not bad mouthed you in any way, but you seem to want to try and do that to me, but Im the one with the axe to grind? What axe is that? and who am I grinding it against?

I guess you guys are on to something, It's just a shame to loose the SV class. Everytime we test our boat we find more speed. Why not get to work and keep the class. Or limit the class to 1.50 gears. It takes ours down to 100. We worked with Louie for one day, and his boat now out runs ours. I have the Wanted boat at our shop. It will run 105 when it leaves. Motors still sealed. Just setup. It is power to weight. 525 @ 8000 lbs Not arguing with anyone, just thinking out loud. By the way, I have raced side by side with Muscle, it's faster than we are. We smoked them in pickwick. They went home, went to work, came back and kicked our butt. Smitty

[QUOTE=Expo;2121119]Since you seem to know so much about how I was supposedly "smacked down by the boss" why dont you enlighten us."

Please do not take this personally but....This thread is not about you or Gregg or your Drama! Frankly, it is really water under the bridge...and most of us never saw it go by...no offense but what is needed here are teams that want to embrace an idea, commit to it, make it work and and build the class into something special. While re-aquainting oneself with some old friends and making new ones! And maybe, just maybe, taking home the coveted trophy a time or two.

Again, no offense guys but I really want to hear what racers think about the potential of this new class something I am interested in hearing about and supporting!

Julie
Throttle Up Propellers

This is what I see.

P2 champion last year Blown non stepped Apache.
Old SV with 525 cannot beat new SV with 525 or an old boat so make new class with more restrictions.

If you guys think that repropping a 113 mph boat down to will not beat you when all your boat can do is 105 on its best day you are in trouble.

The more you tighten the rules the more your flaws will show. The super V rules were restricted so many times that Fountain (Brett) is now declared the winner. Second Outerlimits, third Skater. It is the last boat standing.

So the super V rules need to be modified to make your boats competitive with an over engineered boat designed for the class you have designed. Then what?...... you still will not beat a factory team. They are in it for sales. They have propellers when they want them because they buy alot of them, They are owned by the one engine supplier and you think that you have the same stuff? Funny.

Listen to Smitty, he seems to have the right idea.

Tech? Check the GPS, under 105 mph, ok time to party, Over 105 mph end of the line in class.

pat W

Smitty...I see your point...but one of the reasons we are staying with 100...is for the open cockpit guys...

Testing will always get you more speed...but the speeds and the tech are getting so much faster you will never catch up in the older boats ( except your purple peter eater)...if that was the case all the manufactures would still be making there boats in the same design and set up....Manufactures are changing the boat designs every year to make them faster....look at the MTI's...if you have a 3 or 4 year old MTI it dose not campair to todays...thats why so many racers are buying the latest and newest tech boats...

For Billy boat for example...

The boat ran around 100 mph when Tres had it...so let say you get it to 105...it still can't compete with the new Fountains, Skaters and Outerlimits...so why spend the money for the extra 4 or 5 mph...
A lot of teams will not even spend the money if they still will not be compeditive...unless you are doing this for free...HINT...
We can get a lot more speed out of my boat...but its going to cost me a good chunk of change....which I would spend if someone wants to buy it...I will invest the money becasue I will get it back...but with the OPA p-3 Class and the SBI/APBA Class my boat fits in perfect and with no money out of my pocket...and any of us can win....

With Scott C. Skater running speeds of over 115mph...no onw would touch him...they had to put weight in him to slow him down...I don't agree with that becasue all the money and time they put in...so I say...keep the SV Class and let the guys with the money and the Manufactures keep working on making the the boats safer and faster...but we are making a home for the teams that our goingto to keep there old boats and are already running the speeds we are required, it gives a lot of us homes with no money spent and even cheaper entree fee's and racing half the distance with less ware on the equipment....

We have a lot of teams now interested in racing this year because of this...Sarasota will be the proof of this...and if we can get a few others to "in a no disrespect way"...we just might me able to get some teams that would not be racing anywere this year come out...

Shifter...I think one of the things that kept parity in the factory class was the holomagation rule...boats were built exactley the some wether it was a new boat or a 3 or 4 year old boat...so the tech was the same...thats why there were so many boats racing in the 2000 -2001 seasons...

there are over 25+ Super Vees out there that are 3 to 4 years old...I think the old APBA speed record was around 106 or so with the UTZ boat...today if we held a APBA kilo it would be 116+...thats 10 mph faster...funny...its the same speed differance we are talking about today that the older boats are running....
Thats wHy Factory Class racing was so great and was the top class's in Offshore racing....

This class will be a way of getting all those older boats that were built the same and all have the same speeds with in a few mph...some boats better in ruff some better in calm...

Great thread!!!!
It is all in how you race your boat. You can put two itentical boats next to each other in a race. Same mold, weight engines etc. and the outcome is up to who can drive and throttle the best in any water conditions. Not everyone can turn a boat the same. Example, I`ve been in Predator with Tommy and Dennis, they turn that 41 Apache tight and and very very fast, when we raced them last year in P3, we had to be in our game to compete.

I think Pat makes a lot of sense, but I am not certain how to mitigate it. I think that it is enevitable that some of the 110MPH Super V's drop into this class by re-propping and re-gearing because there are no more Super V's for them to race, and you will end up with the same situation, a large group of uncompetative boats and a few that can run 99.9MPH averages but with incredible acceleration.

Manitee - any suggestions about how to deal wit this?.

Gregg Reichman

If 6 to 10 older SV's agree to come back out and play, just start them at the same time you start P-2 . I never liked that P,should be an X if any letter at all .hope this works out . Team effort ya'll .

In OPA we have a number of SV's running. Not all in the same class. Propping back is not the answer. OPA places the boats in their classes by the speed the boats are capable of. On occaision we mess up. But for the most part the boats match up well. Any team can protest any boat. We get in it and run it. The rest is simple. Keep in mind when you hear these big speed numbers in SV. Race setup is rarely faster than 103-105. Kilo speed means nothing, because there are no race coarses long enough to achieve those speeds. I agree with Pat. The 525's are great motors, but they belong under the hood of a pickup truck. No match for a V with real motors. If you are not worried about spec class, why not update you computers, add some rpm to the 525's. So you can run P2 at the correct speed. Adding rpm may not make you much faster, but you can prop down, add excelleration, without giving up top end. Just a thought. Smitty

I Don't Care What Class I Run !!!! As Long As I Beat Smitty... Any Questions ??????
Johnny

Oh Please Pops................Go cash you Social Security Check, and We'll have a little wager. Smitty

"there are over 25+ Super Vees out there that are 3 to 4 years old...I think the old APBA speed record was around 106 or so with the UTZ boat...today if we held a APBA kilo it would be 116+...thats 10 mph faster...funny...its the same speed differance we are talking about today that the older boats are running...."


Not sure but I think they were running 500 efi's back then .
big diff between that and the 525. Could explain some of the disparity in speed.


I'm not a v bottm guy but I can't wait for the OC race to watch OTC, Wzzup and Cintron lay it dowm

Very good advice - I am so conditioned that you can't change the engines (legally) from being in a restricted class for so long it never crossed my mind.

Thanks,

Gregg Reichman

I would think the 99.9 MPH is not fast enough for an old SV Most all of the older SV can run 102-105 chit a SVL can run 95 MPH with stock power

The yachts boat starts a race at 111-113 mph, with top speeds of 116 mph.

There new boat right?

legally?

my 2 cents

I completely understand how you guys feel. Last year we raced in superboat stock in a 10 year old boat. And we knew that the only chance we had of winning was if other teams broke.

That is a hard way to race,and those hours in the shop and all the work you put in feels pointless, knowing everytime you put your boat in the water you get dominated. I assume this is the reason that those 25 super vee's don't show up to the races.

It sounds to me that everyone want a far chance of winning without breaking the bank.

Ok so what does a winner get

1. prize money (which is not millions)
2. a plastic metal trophy
3. checked flag
4. TV interview
5. Pictures

I just watched a video of the class 3 championship race in Dubai 17 stock boats made the start. There were a few guys way up front and the rest were in a pack. My jaw hit the floor watching guys in every place doing deck to deck racing with another boat.

I think this is the awnser to super vee
just run whatever you got

battling for 10th place would be just as exciting(especially for the fans) as battling for 1st
the race would be non-stop action.

and as far a winning goes

Give Everyone 1st-25th
1. prize money (which is not millions)
2. a plastic metal trophy
3. checked flag
4. TV interview
5. Pictures

getting 25 super vees to make a start is winning

if this could be done our sport would grow like never before,
and with that much excitement and entertainment. The TV shows would come back and so would the sponsors. And with that money we could afford to buy newer equipment.

I guess my point is..nothing I have ever done can compare to racing offshore deck to deck. And no matter how outdated your equipment is if you get 25 boats to make a start in any class. You'll be deck to deck with someone. And thats what offshore is all about.


Tague
D&E Motorsports

Dude you crack me up

Gregg Reichman

Shane:

I think the idea is to set the bar a little conservatively so that boats running close to 100, or just over 100 all have a shot.

I think the 100MPH mark is exactly where it should be. Yes, SVL's can run 95 in salt water, 60 degree air temp, no bumps - but that is not average racing speed or even close to it.

Some of the Super V's were / are running 90+MPH through the turns and I know cause I have done it.

Gregg Reichman

Gregg Reichman

Sad part is I crack myself up

GREAT POST TAGUE...........imagine nascar if the teams that thought they couldn't win quit........Hendrick would be there alone at this point. How do you think I felt last season. What is really strange is that no one quit when SpiderMan was winning???? Or MOJO the year before in Stock, or the Year GB won EVERY race????

How about coming to Marathon and cracking us all up...:drink:

Do ya need a little Love?

Whatever ya got..........bring it........:p

I agree 100%...I raced in an A-Class boat in the 1994 Key West Worlds.There were 34 boats in A-Class.It was incredible,the entire race we were swapping postions with a bunch of other boats mid pack...battling for 15th place!The top three boats actually lapped us,but we kept racing our race within a race.We battled deck to deck with another boat the entire race and they passed us racing back into the harbor on the final lap.We were high fiving them back at the pits.We finished 13th if I am remember correctly,but it was the most fun I have ever had racing.In speaking with the other teams,some who even finished at the back of the pack,everyone thought it was a great race.You have to admire the teams that continue to show up and race to the best of their abilities even when the odds are stacked against them...they are true racers.

And then you have guys who just want to win. Ref, Dale Earnhardt JR. Leaves a multi millon dollar deal, because he is only running in the top ten. Go figure

some people are over achievers..........

Hey Marc I hope you remember to bring my steak !:rolleyes:

Our boat is five years old. the first 38 they built. Back in 2003 it set the kilo at 112. Old boats have feeling too. be nice.

This is actually a good thread with a few minor exceptions. Not that I race in Super Vee but I thought a few things should be noted for everyone to consider:

• As we all know more classes is not what’s best for the sport.
• Racing and technology go hand in hand, it is impossible to stop teams or manufactures from building a better mouse trap.
• In our sport it does not a good financial decision to continue to upgrade to the new and improved version every year. This always leaves out dated equipment.
• Penalizing a race team or manufacture is not the thing to do because they do their homework either.
• Creating a class of antiquated equipment does not have a future either, no one will want to buy a new boat to fit an old class.

For any class to progress or the sport to progress what about getting all of the equipment owners together and allow everyone to voice their side. Then see what common ground can be reached. There is always common ground, example:

Just based on assumptions but here goes:

Reggie wants to win, run out front, get a checkered flag, and maybe some prize money but doubtful. Other fountain teams may be more interested in the money. Everyone else wants to race, keep their cost down, run existing equipment for some predetermined time, and feel they have a chance of winning without having to spend another 100k on upgrades for the season. Close????

If this is the case why not take the class you have and everyone agree to the common ground. What if, Super Vee stays as it is with a break out speed say 105 (Old Kilo Speed) if new boats come out and wax the field on the first race by say 30 seconds, the next race he is indexed to 30 seconds? The next race he wins by 60 seconds, and then he gets an index of 45 seconds, and so on. Keep in mind he can not run over the speed limit.

The new boat has people to race, the sanctioning body has race boats to showcase, the old boats have a chance to win because of the index, and the superior manufacture gets to show publicly he has the best product on the course?

Not that this would be the answer but the point I am trying to make here is that the class needs to stick together and work out a way that everyone gets what they want it may not be perfect but it would be better then the alternative. Super Vee will die as other classes have or at best you will end up with 3-850’s and 5-750’s running in deferent classes and nobody wins, racing continues to suck. It’s not like we have 10-20 people waiting to write checks for a 300k super vee or 500k Super Cat to get the latest technology or ½ that for dated technology.

Just food for thought, It starts and stops with the equipment owners. The owners have to get together and work out the differences and a sanctioning body with out a biased for anyone to make sure the self serving recommendations do not get out of hand.

Fast then.. fast now.