Winter Projects
 

I figured I would start a new thread to talk about winter projects. Assuming that I am keeping my boat for a while, this is what I plan on doing.

1. Full hydraulic steering. Add another ram on the outside and all the inside stuff.

2. Remove fairing, peel off that crappy looking vinyl and paint the inside flat black or maybe dark blue. I am a little afraid of taking the fairing off and being able to get it back on right. Anybody ever do this?

3. Repair starboard side engine hatch support. I am removing the fiberglass support and using some aluminum angle iron. That side of the hatch sags a little bit, I think I am going to use a stronger gas shock too. The one on there now is 20 lbs. I don't know if it is just worn out or needs to be heavier.

4. Paint the underside of my engine hatch. I would really like to pull my motor and paint the whole bilge but I don't think that will happen.

5. Replace speakers. Nothing extravagant, I don't really use my stereo that much. The grills keep coming off my old speakers and they are not very good quality to begin with. I like those billet aluminum speaker covers, I'll have to price them.

6. I would like to upgrade my GPS. One with a bigger screen and contour.

7. Replace my switch panel. I like those newer "rocker" type switches. I may consider relocating it to a more convienent location too. Maybe on the starboard side bulkhead.

Dave,

Full hydraulic steering will be a great upgrade. I can let go of the wheel in 2-3 footers at 60 and she still goes straight...
You don't have an electric jack screw that lifts your engine hatch; gas shocks??? Put the e-jack screw in so you can flip a switch to open.
If you do decide to keep her, More HP is not in the works? Valve Job, Hotter cam, Good Exhaust, and Reprogrammed ECU will give you another 60-80HP...

As for my upgrades/mods:

-More Horsepower is at the top of the list being that I have about the only Superboat that won't crack 70mph.

- To go along with the engine upgrades, I will have a Gil off-shore engine mount installed. Don't want to crack any more stringers...

-Mechanical Indicators for the Drive and K-planes is also a must for next year. The electrical drive indicator is always screwing up and with the big K-planes on such a small boat, it will make driving a lot easier.

-I am not wild about the Doors and Hatch to the cabin so I will make a change there. At least the hatch will get changed to Fiberglass or Aluminum.

-Painting the inside of the Faring will happen if time permits.

OH Boy, The $$$ will be flying...:D

Hey Patrick,

I have an electric engine hatch lift but it is mounted on the port side of the engine. There is a gas shock on the starboard side to help keep the hatch even. I think the shock is getting tired and the starb. side sags a bit.

See picture ....

Hey Dave,
I sent Tom your link. I know he is looking at Gary's 1996 24' and at an older Pantera that was redone. He should definitely have a look at yours...

My Engine Hatch does not have the gas shock and does sag to the starboard side. When the shock was good, did it help? Should I add it to my list?

Well the weather was great this weekend, so I was able to spend a few hours pulling her apart. The Drive is off, Battery is out, and I removed the back seat to make it easier to pull the engine...

Thanks Pat, Looks nice, I am looking at everything I can find SUPERBOAT or PANTERA tough time of year but I'm learning as much as I can now so when I find the right one I'll be ready.

Hey Dave,
If it's not too much trouble, would you mind having a look at your mechanical indicator cables for a part number. I am hoping to buy the right length the first time around... Also, how did you seal the holes through the transom? Is it just the fitting around the cable and a bunch of 5200 squirted in from the inside???
Thanks!

Hey Patrick,

I'll try to get the info on the cables some time this weekend. I am working this weekend so it may be dark by the time I get home.

Dave

Thanks Dave, No rush...
Any time in the next two months will be fine. I won't be buying anything more for the boat until after the first of the year.
Lots of $$ to spend elsewhere this time of year.

Well, we had another bright sunny Sunday here in the Northeast. Why couldn't it have been this nice during the Summer???
Pulled my engine and the boat goes in for a Gil off-shore engine mount on Tuesday.
Ready for more HORSEPOWER...:D:D

I got my boat back from Ocean Performance last night. They installed a Gil off-shore/racing engine mount for me. :)
They hit my wallet hard :eek: I guess it was a tougher job than I thought... :rolleyes:

JMK406, You out there?
I sent you a PM many moons ago.
I talk to Dave at OP about your engine mounting issues. :(
I wish we had talked before they did the work.
You could have had them do the same to your boat.

Hey Patrick,

You will have to post some pics of your new mounts. What was up with JMK's engine mounts?

Hey back at you Dave,
I'll take a few shots before I cover her up this weekend.

As far as JMK's problems, I should maybe let him tell the story... I will say that it does not sound like JC was vary helpful though. :(

Pat,

If you don't hear back from me it means that I did not get the message. We need to swap telephone numbers again -- there have been a couple of times when I wanted to get your thoughts on a boat related matter. I almost broke down on rte 9 with the boat in tow and would have loved to have somone to call with a truck.

With regards to my problem/project, you all would not have wanted to be in my car last night as my wife and I were driving home from the office (we commute togehter -- I know) and I broke it to her that the winterizing was a bit more expensive then she thought it was going to be.
All I can say is that OP stated that the saftey clamps were not "folded down" and as a result the engine shifted and it damaged the couplar(sp?) Thus, I was told that the Couplar needed to be repaired $$$. In addition, my engine was some "thousands out of roatation as a result of a bent shaft. I know I did not hit anything in my travels this year. All said and done, it was expensive to the point that I will probably have it paid off when it is time to launch it. JC's response to my call was that OP was full of **** and he would fix it but there is probably nothing wrong with it and they are just trying to soak me for some $$ I hope that they are hitting the guy with the 42 fountiain and not the little guy with a 24' Superboat and a 1984 pick-up truck. Anyway, JC and I have a seperate matter that we will be addressing in the very nerar future.

JMK,

Sorry to hear about your troubles. My coupler went out on me at the end of the first season I had my boat. Funny thing is that I was told the same thing about the tabs not being bent down. Is your motor still under warranty? My coupler was covered under warranty.

Dave M.

Hey JMK,
Sorry we didn't hook up...:(
No need to pay OP to winterize, you can join Gregg (my friend with the Fountain) and I when we do ours down at the Marina next year. It takes less than one hour to winterize the engine and pull the drive.
If your drive is off now, I'll help you bolt it back on next Spring. That takes all of 15min.
As for a bent prop shaft, that is what I am assuming you are referring to, that is easy to check. I don't think OP would do work that is not needed. Their prices have gone up a lot over the years :rolleyes: but I trust them.
Keep in touch,

Dave,

My engine is still under warranty. Some solace hearing about similar experiences.

Guys,
Tabs bent down or not, these boats should have solid engine mounts. Most off-shore boats do, and I know that the new 30' Superboats do, I saw at the factory. JC told me that the stringers were too close for the solid mount and that he never had problems with the standard merc mounts in a 24'. Well, we are three for three :snide:.
I installed my own engine this year, and believe me, I bent the tabs to hold the nut in place. One side held one side did not. I jacked the engine back into place 4 or 5 times. Lucky for me, I new of the problem from my Donzi days. I wish I had installed the solid mount last spring, I just got impatient...

Well, I was hoping for some of those freak warm days we get in December. I am going outside to winterize right now. In the past few years we had some 70+ degree days in the beginning of Dec. and I was sorry I winterized too soon.

I'm a memeber of that club...
 

Holy crap...I had the same thing happen to me on July 4 2 seasons ago.. I too made the call to SB but to no avail. Then being the cheap prick that I am, I didn't have the extended warranty ( i could fix anything right? Yeah!) Anyway I went for a new coupler, Holden did the work and the money I had put aside for my hydaulic helm was now invested in a new coupler!

That sux JMK, good luck with her....

What is the solution to prevent this from happening in the future??

The best solution is a race mount, but that can be expensive as I just had one put in.

If you stay with adjustable mounts, you need to check them after running hard in the rough.

One other solution I have thought of:
With the engine perfectly aligned, take a measurement between the angles bolted to the stringer and the bottom of the mount bolted to the engine.
Then machine a spacer block to the correct size. Hold the engine in the air and put the spacer block in place of the adjustable trunnion. Put a bolt from the bottom up through the angle, spacer block, and engine mount.
Should work... May be place some thin hard rubber between the angle and spacer to make up for anything that may be out of parallel as well.

Shot of my boat's new engine mount.
Yes, I know the bilge needs a cleaning and a paint job...
It's on the list.

Another shot.
In my humble opinion, these boats should be rigged with a similar engine mounting system straight from the factory...

Do the Pantera's have this problem -- Pat I'm going to need you to show me where the hell I have to keep an eye on!!

The mount looks good. It doesn't look like it would of been that difficult to install. Did they just rotate the inside piece of angle iron 90 degrees? How do they measure for alignment? Will your alignment always be right on now? I guess that thing don't move?

Dave M.

JMK,
My 1989 Pantera had a race mount, so it did not have this problem.
If a Pantera would be rigged without a race mount, yes it would have this problem. Jo and Pepe rig all of their new boats with race mounts, I have seen the standard mounts in older Panteras.
I will most certainly show you what to look for before next Spring. It is quite simple.

Dave,
Judging from the 10 hour labor bill I received, I think that it was not that easy. I did question the service manager when I received my bill.
He had the head mechanic, Ronny, explain the whole process. I have know Ronny since the mid 80's when I was a doc boy, so he had no problem telling me the whole deal.
The aluminum angles are new and were cut and machined to match the mount. A jig (bare engine block) is used along with the bell housing for location.
An alignment tool is put though the gimble bearing into the drive coupler to get the alignment right. Then the stringers are drilled while all is in place.
Yes, the engine alignment should be right on from now on.
Another good thing about this type of mount is that it ties the two stringers together. With the adjustable mounts, the engine can move around. When it does, only one stringer bears the load. Not a good thing, that is why stringers break.

Well the $$ have been flying out of my wallet...
Good thing I just got a Christmas bonus.

I got my heads back from the machine shop.
They received a bowel porting, new stainless severe duty valves, and new springs, retainers, & locks.

I also received my new cam shaft.

Hopefully I will make room for my engine in the basement shortly after Christmas.

My props went down to Houston Prop. to be reworked.

I made an offer on some diverters for captains call.

Oh Boy... I will need to work some over time.

Hey Patrick,

How much HP are you planning on having? I was thinking of ditching my silent choice. I have had a lot of trouble with mine. The one diverter keeps closing on me. I've replaced the check valve. I must have an air leak somewhere. I think the systems with the electric selonoids are better than the air assist systems. I have been using tie wraps to keep the diverters open full time. My engine doesn't seem that load anyway.

Dave M.

Dave,
If I stay with the GM MPI system, I am told that the engine will max out at about 375HP. If I replace the MPI with a carb and dual plan intake, my mods should yield about 400HP.
The cam I bought is a stock replacement cam that was designed to give 454mag and 502mag engines about 40 more ponies.

Dave, this cam, a good exhaust system, and remapped ECU would give you about 60HP more. Want the part number?

I just completed the deal for 2 used sets of Corsa electrical diverters that, " need some work",$200. Hopefully I can get one set of the two to work.
I have a friend with the Corsa electrical, and he has never had a problem.

I have been using muffler inserts in the exhaust tips and they do take the edge off, but the people at my marina still look at me sideways when I leave early or come home late.

I was looking to redo my teak


www.morelandhose.com

Hey Hoser,

Do you own that business? Is that where your handle comes from? I may be need some hose and fittings for my steering upgrade.

Dave M.

Hey, I live in Manhattan but have a family home on the bay in South Baldwin, Long Island. On the Superboat website, I noticed that the Superboat factory is selling a 21 Legend demo with a 6.2 MX Merc for $29,000. Do you feel that this boat is appropriate for boating in the bay in the Freeport area? Also, do you feel that the deal as shown on the site for the 21 Legend is a fair price?
Finally, does anyone know if Superboat will be exhibiting at the NY Boat Show this December?

Thanks,
Ken

Hey Ken,
I saw that boat at the factory last year when it was being built. It is one of the first, if not the first 21' with the new deck design. Vary sweet looking ride! I'll bet it will really fly with that 320HP/6.2 too...

As for the size: If you plan on doing any water sports, ie. water skiing, the 21' is a good size. If you are just going to be blasting around the Bay or the Sound, the 24' handles rough water allot better.

I would say $29,000 would be a real good price if you can get JC to throw in a trailer or the extended warranty. There are some really nice almost/better than new used 24s for the same $$.

I don't think Superboat will be at the show, I haven't seen JC display before???

Ken, my wife has family in Baldwin, nice area...

Good Luck with your hunt!

Pat, thanks for the reply. I grew up in Baldwin Harbor and had boats since my very early teens. That was how we met girls before we had our car drivers license! Now I am a guy with a wife and 14 year old daughter living in Manhattan who wants to get back into boating. I am looking at a few boats, some that I totally lusted for as a youth, such as a Donzi 22 Classic. I spoke to JC this past fall, but have not visited the factory yet. Another quick question; in looking at the Pantera website, their 24 looks like the same hull as the Superboat 24. Is that true? So you are saying that if I want to just blast around, the more appropriate boat would be the 24. What is the "right" set up for the 24, the 496 Mag or 496 HO, and what would be a good ballpark price to pay for an ordered boat? Thanks very much for your replies. I have been all over this, Hotboat and other sites for the past several months reading everything I can. Now I am ready to really narrow my focus among the following manufacturers; Superboat, Donzi, Sonic, Pantera and a couple of West Coast manufacturers, Howard and Ultra.
Thanks,
Ken

Hey Ken,

I would agree with what Patrick said about the 21's & 24's. The 24 can handle some pretty rough water. The 21 could be a scary ride for some. I am a family man too. I have a 24 and it suites my needs well. A 21 would have a much less comfortable and secure feeling for my wife compared to the 24. I haven't tried skiing or tubing with my 24 but I guess it could be done.

As far as the price you mentioned for the '21, I don't really know what other comparable boats cost. I don't think John would be displaying at the NYC boat show. That show is not really known for performance boats and Superboat is a very small company. I bought my 24 used but I would guess that a new one would cost between 50 - 60K depending on how it is rigged. I am thinking about selling my 24 so I can upgrade to a '30. Here's a link to some pics of my boat.

http://wanspages.prodigy.net/dmcdowall/superboat.html

Dave M.

the 21 is a great boat the the bays i have had mine for 18 years and will NEVER sell it.

and yes i do own moreland hose
and if you look on the web site im in the process
of a marine section for all the fuel,steering,and so on.

www.morelandhose.com

Hey Ken,
The 22' Classic is also one of my all time favorites. If you like sit down boats, Pantera's new 24' Sport is one hot looking machine.
I personally like the option of standing in the rough.
24' Superboat vs Pantera: I sold my 1989 24' Pantera in favor of my 1997 24' Superboat. I had them side by side, and yes the hulls are nearly identical.
Power: Most of the newer 24' boat have been rigged with 385HP/454mag engines. Same power as the new 496mag. It is all about how fast you want to go... 400HP will push the boat 75mph, 500HP will push it 85mph.
Good Luck! and Happy Hunting...

Dave, Pat, thank you for your replies. Dave, I checked out the pics of your 24. Beautiful boat. Pat, I am going to Florida for business at the end of January and will go to the Pantera factory during my trip. I am also going to the Sonic facory as well regarding their 26. By referring to the Pantera 24 as a sit down boat, you mean that it does not have drop down bolsters whereas the Superboat 24 does? That is a consideration. Pat, do the top end figures you quote with 400 and 500 hp refer to the speeds attainable with both the Superboat and Pantera 24 models? When I get back from Fla, I will contact JC regarding an appointment to visit the factory and check out the specs and options on a new 24. It is a lot of fun researching and looking, but I really want to focus hard, choose and purchase a boat. I need to take a USCG course this winter to refresh my knowledge of the rules of the road. Thanks to you both for your replies and I will be in touch.
Ken

Hi Ken,
Pantera offers a 24' Sport Model and a SE model. The Sport model is the sit down version in most cases. The SE model is much like the 24' Superboat, with stand/sit bolster. The SE model also normally has a full cabin like the Superboat.
Panteras are a couple of hundred pounds heaver and have an old school straight V bottom. The newer, 1998 and up, 24' Superboats have a small step and small pad on the bottom. With the same power, a Superboat is 1-2mph faster...
Have a good trip to FLA and tell JO I said HI...

Anyone have carpet in their cockpit? I'm thinking about carpet to protect the floor from scuffs and the like.