Y2K props
 

Hey super babi,
congrats on the new boat, sorry for not getting back i havnt checked email in awhile, I have tried many different props and found the hydro 5 blade round ear to work best for me. I have not tried the new 6 blade (to dam expensive!). The Y2k needs bow lift, cleaver style props give stern lift ,( which brings the bow down ) round ear props like merc 4 blade bravos pull the stern down (which raises the bow) I am sure John can give you advice on props that work well with stock power . Hopefully other Y2K guys will chime in , I know Krac was going to try a friends 5 blade round ear. I run a box stock Hydro P5x 29 pitch for pleasure boating and i get 90mph all day 88 with 5 adults, a cooler of beer and 75 gallons of fuel. When racing we run the same prop but in a labbed 28 pitch , slightly less top end ,85 85 but better mid range for hard turns. The only way is trial and error, I highly reccomend Throttle-up in Fla. they are great help and can sometimes lend you props for testing.
As for blueprinting, during set-up and testing for racing , the guys at MRD said my hull had a very bad hook and blue printing will give me 5 to 8 mph! I had it done and got No noticable diff in speed or handling! ( it was done by superboat Bob at MRD) I had another glass expert ( in NJ ) tell me the blueprinting was not done well and he gaurenteed me 4 MPH or no charge, yea I did it and it was free ! again no speed increase.
One more thing to consider 5 blade props are harder on drives, more blades mean better hook-up which means more load on drive components, some set-ups have higher slip numbers in thier design to reduce drive line failure,
sorry if im rambling , how many more days until spring?

Jim Capie

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Jim, Thanks For Getting Back To Me. Blueprinting---this Will Be Done At Superboat Factory By Rick ( Fx-10 ) And John, Who Else Could Know Hull Better. Blue Printing Bottom And Slight Rocker Added For Bow Lift.-----props ----looking For Top End I Understand 5 Blade Hydro Could Be The Ticket, John Is Looking Into This, Throttle Does Have Props Available For Tests. Howerever It Would Be Nice To Know If Any Y2k's Are Running 5 Blade. I Know Krak Is Waiting On One. ------whipple Stage 2 Looks Good. Mild Hp Gain 25-30 Hp Increase. What Happens With Prop Pitch When Gain Occurs With Rpm Gain. ( Stage 2 ). Any Thoughts Welcome. Gary

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Hey Jim,
Thanks for giving Gary the advise on the props. As for the blueprinting. Bob told me he did your boat. I asked him what kind of blueprinting he did. He said just straightening. There's different types of blueprinting, depending on the hull characteristics. I'm going to do Gary's different then Bob did yours. Bob made your bottom straight. But you need bow lift ? Right ? I'm planning on changing the angle of the steps on Superbaby. Not by much, probably between 3/16" to a 1/4". That will be taken off the rear of the steps and faired to the front. By cantering the angle of the steps it should give more BOW LIFT then just leveling the bottom. What I'm going to do isn't your ordinary blueprint job. 2 extra plys of mat were added to the layup in the steps to makeup for what will be removed.
You said your hull had a hook. They all have a slight hook in the starboard strake on the second step. But it won't effect the performance of the hull. As you said, you had Bob straighten it out, and you didn't get any mph out of the job.
Another thing I was considering was after changing the angle of the steps, to put a rocker on the second step. Now that should lift the bow. Hmmm

Rick

PS
Jim, Is your boat Jessy James ?

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Hey FX10,
If you are successful with the mods you have planned for Superbabi, will you and JC change the mold slightly?

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Pat, If They 're Successful???stop...ya Makin' Me Crazy!!!!

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Hey Jim,
My boat handles far better with the 4 blade Bravo I vs. 3 blade Mirage plus or 4 blade Hydro. The boat is much more stable at higher speeds in rougher water and rarely blows out.
Is that because the Bravo I is pulling the stern down? vs. the Mirage+ raising the bow up?
I am going to need a new prop for next year. My labbed 26p Bravo is kind of beat and I don't like the 25p Mirage unless I am running on glass.
Has anyone tried a 5 blade on a 24?

Dave M.,
What do you think?

I am leaning toward a 28p Bravo I because the plan is to have a few more ponies under the hatch. Like 100 more... :D :D :D

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Sorry Gary...

Rick,
When you have successfully "Blue Printed" a 30' Super Y2K (Superbabi ;) ) will the changes be incorporated into the mold?

Re: Y2K props
 

I might have to pull JC's arm(out of socket) alittle, but it's a matter of removing the step insert and modifying it. Quite a project. If thats what it takes, thats what it takes. Besides, I'll talk to John jr. to help me talk him into it.

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RICK, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS SOME BIG STUFF GOING ON AT SUPERBOAT!!!!!!!!!! I LIKE. :evilb:

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I can just hear it now "Ya know Rick, it was nice and quiet around here before you came back"

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Rick, You'r Right. It's Jc Who Will Be Crazy! We Just Went From Mild To Wild!! So How Fast Are Ya Thinking? ( I Like ) :d

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Check out this prop Gary
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=26456

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Jim Thanks For The Info On The Bottom Blueprinting,skip Also Told Me It Would Help Me Out Since I Converted To The Speedy Found It Hard To Believe So I Left It Alone.now I Know You Just Saved Me Some Denaro So I O U A Drink.im Still Haven't Tried Or Received My Secret Chopper Yet.im Suprised John Jr Is Not On The Board,he Is Very Knowledgeable About Superboats And Their R&d.

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Re: Y2K props
 

Hey Ric,
yes I have the Jessie James Boat, and yes I am aware of various changes that can be made during blueprinting, and I hav no complaints with Bobs work and actually it proved that the hull out of the mold is pretty dam good and Bob did my hull on his back!( the prefered method is fliping the hull upside down) Thanks Bob!
I would like to hear any info you could get me on the layup of my hull, and the approx. weight. and original X dim , are the new hulls being built lighter? I think mine was built for factory 1 specs
Pat , to answer your prop question yes , the mirage is a stern lifting prop , the bravo pulls the stern down, there really is no such thing as a bow lifting prop, the prop affects the stern and what happens to the bow depends on the hull design . Most deepv hulls react to stern lift with bow drop and stern drop with bow lift. some hulls run faster with stern lift because the hull design has natural bow lift and a stern lifting prop makes the boat run drier meaning less running surface below the water line :ie less drag. Our superboat hulls tend to like the stern pulled down , better handling and bow lift. You should get your hands on a 5 blade round ear for the new hp you will never go back.
Krac those were awsome numbers!
Superbash, you back together?

Jim

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Jim,
I''ll find out about your layup tomorrow

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JCAP!:frog:
Good info you gave us there. No...I'm not ready yet. BASH always take a traditional NewYears Day cruise...but it probably won't happen this year. I can deal with it. I'm gonna get Matt's idea on my setup & see what he says for a prop.
WWW.THROTTLE-UP.COM

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Hey Superbash,
Have you tried a 5 blade yet?

Jcap,
I'm not thinking my boat needs more effective bow lift than the Bravo 1 gives.
She will fly pretty high without porpoising when you trim her out. I also have not experienced much if any blow-out with a Bravo 1. But maybe with more power???
My Mirage + blows out all the time...
A 5 blade might be a waste of money for a 24' Super.
Jim you are also scaring me with the "harder on drives". I just bought a new 2004 after hitting that tree right before FountainSuperDonziVelocityFest... :eek:
Maybe I'll ask if any of the 24' Pantera owners have tried one...

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PAT:crazy:

I have always been told that 24's have a hull speed. I just never realized what the problem or cause of this was...& didn't realize there was a solution. I know that just adding gobs of power to a 24 just won't do it alone. I was always taught that a 2 blade is faster than a 3 blade...3 is faster than a 4...& so on. I don't know about just adding blades makes it faster...or the combined technology of the 5 blade design...which in turn ends up like $1500.00 I think. I think the 4 blade & hull mod. to the step hull is needed for me. I know I have brought this up before to you & Dave M with the "bowlift thing". Do you keep picking up speed the more you trim? I do.

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Hi Superbash,
I have also been told that less blades should be faster. I would now say that is definitely not the case with all of the new technology these days. The effect the prop has on the boats attitude can outweigh the added drag of extra blades. My boat is a little faster (2mph) with a stock Mirage plus vs. a stock Bravo 1. I had them both labbed last year and the speed difference is now not more than 1mph. :rolleyes:
I think you may be right about the 24' having a max hull speed; somewhere around 90mph.
I have heard that 24' Superboats and 24' Panteras run about 85mph with 500-550HP. They don't seem to go any faster than 90mph with even 700+HP. Most guys I have talked to say the boat is a real hand-full over 80mph... :eek:
Maybe it is time for a surface drive like Crazy George... :evilb:
As for your question: No, my boat does not go faster the more I trim up. There is a sweat spot. I do have to trim farther with the Bravo 1 vs the Mirage +.
I think that I am better off buying another Bravo 1 and spending the extra $1000 on something else.
Thanks to Jim and the rest of you, I am get an education though... :drink:

Re: Y2K props
 

The number of blades does not change the theoritical speed only the pitch does ,(theoriticaly, diameter doesnt change it either) it is the slip number that will change ,lower slip with greater number of blades , if hulls could be 100 percent efficient all props of the same pitch would produce the same speed. At 100 percent efficiency a 25 pitch prop will travel 25 inches per revolution regardless of diameter or number of blades, of course we know that dont fly in the real world. More blades mean more thrust produced, improved technology has allowed manufacturers to only recently produced 5 and 6 blades at a more reasonable price

Boat max speed

It took a long time and a lot of work to get my boat to break 90, people said the Y2k was maxed at 80 85. It is a little squirrely at 85 with a bravo 4 blade and damn scary with a three blade , with a 5 blade 90 feels like 70 , I can remove my hands from the wheel in a chop at 90 and its straight and very controlable

The law of diminishing returns will make it harder and harder to gain mph the faster you go, to get a modern deepv hull to go 5 mph faster will require much more hp if you are doing close to the hulls maximum designed speed; if it takes 25 hp to increase wot speed from 60mph to 61 mph in could take 50hp to raise speed from 70 mph to 71 mph and the formula gets worse the higher the speeds , diff hulls vary greatlyt but you get the idea.

Jim

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Hey Jcap,
Why do boats handle better with 5 blade vs. 4 blade vs. 3 blade props?
My boat is much more stable with the 4 blade vs. 3 blade even at my comparatively slower top speed of 67mph...
I thought with my boat it was mostly do to the stern lift vs. stern down effects.
Please enlighten us oh prop guru Jim...
Thanks,

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Good info once again from SUPERBOAT GURU'S PAT:crazy: & JCAP:frog:!

-(Jim...my boss just ran into a guy at a construction job going on. He said he races a 30' SUPERBOAT...& had SUPERBOAT stickers all over his truck. Any idea? That is the only info I got.)

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Could it be John Jr. ? Supergutter

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JCAP,
This is getting interesting guys. Since I plan on running 90's these are issues I need to know and was unaware off. I just took a trip to New York and could not drive a Y2K because nothing was available. JCAP, your runnin 90's now. (squirlly with a Bravo1?) My initial opinion (gathered from other board menbers and..) was that the Y2k was stable at these speeds. If all it takes is a 5 blade prop then maybe it's no issue. If I'm going to put my passengers in danger on a spontanious drag race showing off my Superboat's potential then maybe I'm lookin the wrong direction. Honest imput please!

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Jcap, You Really Have It Down With Speed-prop-hp Equations. What Do You Think I Will See With Superbabi ? Mods. Blueprinted Bottom- Whipple #2 Upgrade. Say Total Hp At 450-460.and 5blade Hydro.

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I corresponded via e-mail with Matt at Throttle Up today about how a 5 blade might run on my 24' Super.
I told him that my boat tops out at 67mph at 4600rpm with a 26p Bravo I.
Then I told him that I know of other Superboats that see 73mph at 5000rpm with the same prop.
He told me that with the slip number calculated from the info I gave, a 5 blade prop was not the way to go.
I did not ask about the handling difference between the two; but if brother Jcap does not come back to us on the subject, I might have to...
Come on Jim, why does your boat handle soooo much better with a 5 blade?

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Pat

I did have a MERCURY HIGH FIVE 5 blade prop on the 21CC on it when JC gave it to me. He tried to use it to smooth out the boats quirk. It was definately a "smoothening" prop & handled best. But wasn't designed for top speed...unlike the hydromotive.

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I couldn't wait for you Jim...

From Matt at Throttle Up:

Patrick,
Yes, 5 blade props handle better than 4 and 6 better than 5. The reason is you have more blades in the water at any one time. Rough water handling, plane-off, turning, maneuverability and cruise speed are better with a 5 blade. If the drive height is not optimized for the boat and propeller then there could be a loss of top end speed with the 5 blades. But every other aspect of the 5 blade prop would be better.

Hey Dave M.
What do you think? Got an extra $1000 in the budjet?
I know we both need new props.... :evilb:

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That truck with the superboat stickers sounds like John Jr, Supergutters is his business gutters and leaders

Fasterdammit,
I am pretty straight about superboats and have pissed people off for being honest about some complaints about superboat(hey man you gonna mess up resale value) but the truth is dollar for dollar it is the best value out there, my boat was originaly set up as a APBA f-1 boat designed with 500 hp and about 80 mph, when I went to 650 - 700 hp the set up had to be tweaked, the bravo1 prop was no longer the best prop , with the P5x five blade I have let my 12 yo son and my wife drive at WOT between 89.5 and a best of 91.0mph and I have more but I choose to set limiter at 5600rpm and boost to 4psi. I am a safety freak and would never endanger family for my speed fetish! The narrow beam has some downsides but these boats are truly amazing in the rough, that is where i believe they truly shine , if you want to just go fast buy an Allison with an eggbeater(awsome lake boat), but if you want to go fast in snot there is nothing better in the 28 to 30ft single engine catogory, and yes I think I could be in the triple digit club if i raised boost and upped the rev limiter.But I prefer to do 75 in 5 footers than 95 on glass. I get my ass kicked by 28 foot skaters on the great south bay all the time but when we go out the inlet its a different story , I am not saying I am faster than a skater but I can run faster in the real nasty ****.

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More info about the SUPERBOAT Mystery Racer. He drives a Durango with SUPERBOAT stickers & SUPERBOAT stickers on his hard hat & is from Lindenhurst. He does re-bar in concrete...........?????? Usually its a small world when it comes to stuff like this.

Re: Y2K props
 

Thanks JCAP.
The American Offshore I had was awsome in rough lake chop as long as it was 2 - 3 feet I could still run 90's. But when it got above that my passengers where uneasy at half that speed which took all the fun out of it. The boat liked it but dancing on top of the big chop but it made some people want out. I've been admiring pics and vidio's of the Y2K and thought this may be the answer to rough lakes or the offshore cruising I want to do. It's possible I may venture into F1 or ? in the POPRA series out here on the west shore.
I love speed. Just thinking the Y2k may be the next level for me to tackle bigger water and still keep the passengers at ease.

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ok Pat the real prop gods are matt and julie!!

More blades are always better handling, and often faster but not always ,without rambling too much its thrust that increases with more blades and larger diameter----------------------
If anyone cares to read the rambling :

Thrust is a mechanical force which is generated through the reaction of accelerating a mass of gas, as explained by Newton's third law of motion. The gas or working fluid is accelerated to the rear and the engine and craft are accelerated in the opposite direction.
From Newton's second law of motion, we can define a force F to be the change in momentum of an object with a change in time. Momentum is the object's mass m times the velocity V. So, between two times t1 and t2, the force is given by:

F = ((m * V)2 - (m * V)1) / (t2 - t1)

If we keep the mass constant and just change the velocity with time we obtain the simple force equation - force equals mass time acceleration a

F = m * a

If we are dealing with a solid, keeping track of the mass is relatively easy; the molecules of a solid are closely bound to each other and a solid retains its shape. But if we are dealing with a fluid (liquid or gas) and particularly if we are dealing with a moving fluid, keeping track of the mass gets tricky. For a moving fluid, the important parameter is the mass flow rate. Mass flow rate is the amount of mass moving through a given plane over some amount of time. Its dimensions are mass/time (kg/sec, slug/sec, ...) and it is equal to the density r times the velocity V times the area A. Aerodynamicists denote this parameter as m dot (m with a little dot over the top).

Basically all this bullsht means more blade more moving water , a garden hose with water moving through it at 50 mph ( 2 blade prop) a fire hose with water moving through it at 50 mph ( 5 blade prop )

Jim

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Jim, you sound like on of my college professors now.
I graduated 15 years ago (BSME).
No offense Jim, but I know your are older than me.
How do you remember that stuff?
I sure don't...

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it seems i am an enigma, all those bong hits improved my memory,
go figure

Try a 5 blade , even if the prop gods say no , all the technical bs means nothing when compared with trial and error, after MRD promised blueprinting would give me 5 mph and I got nothing they convinced me a shorty drive would give me 5 mph, I bought an imco 2in shorty and lost 8mph! I was told by throttle up that 5 blades like to be high so I tried the shorty again with a 5 blade still lost 5mph, I couldnt break 86 87 mph no matter what! then Matt told me that thier testing with SVL raceboats sometimes got better speeds with a deeper drive , I got a 2in spacer to lower my drive ( I always that higher drive less drag faster boat right?) drive 2 inches deeper and I already was pretty low( center of shaft 4 inches below keel) and BAM 91mph first pass with a spacer,

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Hey FX any info on my layup?

Do superboat HIN numbers mean anything? like 5th digit is the number of boats made or the year and month or anything like that. Lots of guys wondering how many Y2Ks, how many outboard or I/O, and was a boat built with 1/4 canopys the website does show one
thanks
Jim

Hey Merry Christmas All !!

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Hey Zuperboat,
You got to listen to professor Jcap. Lower that prop shaft back down...
Mike, you been following this???

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:D ZUPERBOAT ???? :D

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You are Cruel Bash... :p
It's a little easier to make that change with an eggbeater I guess.
I bet if ZZ added a 2" spacer, he would gain a lot.
What do ya think Jcap?

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I think that the Zuperboat had an extension box on it when MRD ran it with the blower motor , If it was a Zero offset box that would have put the drive deeper . I think that boat was the fastest yet with the step bottom , Skip at MRD said it ran 97mph .Where are ya Mike? what was the set up before the drive change?