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-   -   63' Bertram Possibly stuffed off SC??? (https://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/general-boating-discussion/222619-63-bertram-possibly-stuffed-off-sc.html)

goof2 01-13-2010 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by MidOcean (Post 3022889)
It is not only feasible... it is probable that the boat tripped over a set and stuffed into an oncoming wave. At 40 knots, and with 60,000 lbs behind it, that would be enough to shatter the bow and fore-deck right off.

A Bertram 630 weighs over 90,000 lbs. The boat was also supposed to be traveling around 25 knots, not 40. It is reported in that thread that seas were under 6 ft. I am no expert, but in my opinion a 63 foot sportfish should not be stuffing under those conditions.

Uncle Dave 01-13-2010 10:14 AM

Im not buying the buoy theory as a lone cause.

Id say this, plus existing damage,plus a big wave hit - plus manufacturing defects.

Look at how the fibreglass pulls away from the core material indicating they were never fused together to begin with.

Core material should be bonded so thoroughly that it becomes one piece not a sandwich of layer loosely held together.

This is what resin infusion and vacuum bagging are employed in the mafgr process for - to insure the complete bond.



Uncle Dave

rush 01-13-2010 11:13 AM

I didn't read everything on the other site, but I would think they had radar on and could have seen most anything in front of them.

AIR TIME 01-13-2010 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by MidOcean (Post 3021916)
An investigation is underway to determine what sank "Absolutely", a Bertram 630 in November. Bertram has developed its line of sportfishermen to a point where they are fast and light, making them more like their high performance "magnum" counterparts than the heavy Hatterases that they have been compared to in the past.

Look at the pics taken of "Absolutely" as she sits on the bottom. Note the fore-deck and the delimitation of the entry just above the waterline at the bow. Brings back memories of "The Heat is On" in Key West.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/ge...ram-630-a.html

T.

yes it does and heartbeat the black fountian 33 in 94 if I am right and the power play 33 later in the 90s. but in these three people got killed and hurt, they were lucky in the 63. which I think after 55 pages hit the can that put a small hole in the port side while the can was on top or haft way up a wave and the boat ramed it above the water line and the next two sets of waves caved in thr rest of the hull and deck. if they still make those boats out of polyester resin and coring that sucks. for a 2.5 million dollar boat it should be all glass if using polyester:lolhit:. most high performance boats built with coring are vinlyester or epoxy either hand layed or vacum bagged also a better glass should be used on the 63 kevlar two layers on the outside against the gel and coring. theres was a kevlar 38tg in 96 or 97 on the cape he hit a can 4 times the size of the bert one on the outside of the west end of the canal at night going 40 to 60mph it opened a 1 to 2 ft gap above the water line 7ft long. the glass guy said it was the kevar and it might of had cf in it cause there was a lot of webbing that was black like cf that save the cig he said a all glass boat would have been worst maybe sunk. well thats it for now.

AIR TIME 01-13-2010 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by animalhouse (Post 3022996)
There is no way that a 63 Bertram would have gone down as a result of impact with that buoy or one like it. I personally have seen a 73 Rybovitch hit a Large Chanel Marker (Nun) and sustain far less damage than this boat has. Also 32 Intrepid collided with a Large Can at 35 mph and finally went down after 2 hours, and sustained damage at the point of impact, but the entire boat didn't delaminate.

IMO the transom came off as a result of the water being forced through the hull, and traveling through the lower lazzarette and bilge area ripping the transom off with the force of the water. This is not an isolated incident with newer Bertrams, just the worst case so far, but I am sure there are more out there.

I have over 6000 hours at the helm of several large Sport Fish Boats, and the 63 Bertram that I ran for a customer shuddered and flexed in a big sea, where as the Vikings that I ran more frequently have a solid feel. There may have been several factors involved, but the construction of the boat and their layup deffinately failed.

hey fred I read that the new vikings are cord too:eek:.

Uncle Dave 01-13-2010 12:24 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Look at the separation.

Core material is supposed to BOND as one piece with the glass and resin. This is NOT what this should look like.


Uncle Dave

MidOcean 01-13-2010 12:45 PM


Originally Posted by goof2 (Post 3023023)
A Bertram 630 weighs over 90,000 lbs. The boat was also supposed to be traveling around 25 knots, not 40. It is reported in that thread that seas were under 6 ft. I am no expert, but in my opinion a 63 foot sportfish should not be stuffing under those conditions.

Look up the wave station reports... 8,9 and 10 feet. "Absolutely" tops out at 42 knots. 90k further makes the argument for stuffing... It's all about momentum.

glassdave 01-13-2010 01:36 PM


Originally Posted by Uncle Dave (Post 3023105)
Look at the separation.

Core material is supposed to BOND as one piece with the glass and resin. This is NOT what this should look like.


Uncle Dave

Thats usually what happens when a core is not bagged or not bagged properly or is dry. Just the surface of the core is bonded with no cross linking or very poor resin penetration. Although from the pics the dark lines do indicate resin presence so its tough to tell. Man this boat really is a mess. What were the seas that day? I didnt get a chance to read all the way through yet.

glassdave 01-13-2010 01:39 PM


Originally Posted by MidOcean (Post 3023113)
Look up the wave station reports... 8,9 and 10 feet. "Absolutely" tops out at 42 knots. 90k further makes the argument for stuffing... It's all about momentum.

oops, just saw this. Yea thats a lot of available forces there. Delams only need a small breach to become catastrophic but man this thing is a mess.

animalhouse 01-13-2010 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by AIR TIME (Post 3023101)
hey fred I read that the new vikings are cord too:eek:.


There is nothing wrong with a cored boat, if done properly. In fact if done properly the cored laminate is just as strong or stronger, with a serious weight advantage.


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