Why?

NOT at all , most of your new boats are set up for top end " drive height real high " this give bigger top end # and less mid-range and also getting on plane .
750 hp with a single engine on a xr drive is no problem as long as you no how to throttle the boat . most of these guy's on this site are blowing up xr drives with stock 525's , they do hole shot from a dead stop they get air born and keep the throttle wide open . also with drives real high when running full throttle the top of the drive is out of the water heating up .
Velocity make a nice flat pad bottom boat also and is very fast , I just don't like the way a flat pad hit's the water when its rough . now in nice lake water and anything under 3 footers Im sure a big pad on the bottom works just fine , This is why Pat will build the boat either way step and pad or ole school straight V . Also less chance of a roll over with a straight V and they also feel so much better in the turn's no sliding " you no what I mean :)

Also they have been making straight V bottom's for 10 x as long as step , pad bottom boats so I would hate to think its been done wrong all these years , There is only one benefit of the new step ,pad boats and that is a little more speed . We are not talking anything big between 6 to 10 mph and remember they sacrifice in other area's like very high drive height poor high speed turning and no midrange punch

because they are basically the same hull as my my old 38 sonic :) except for pad and step , and your partner already said you would build with out them .
I'm not saying anything bad about the bottom design it just has it's place and follower's ,

It could also be the ride I went on with your old partner JAY ROSS x sonic owner builder
Maybe one day I will get invited for a ride in a A.T so I can see how it ride's with someone that know's how to drive it and then maybe I will think different about a step ,pad bottom . other wise like I said before I love the boat

mike

PAT ,Hopefully in the next week or 2 my 2014 diesel pusher RV will be sold and I will be in the market again for a nice boat , and I would think you would be the best driver to take me out :)

mike

How long has it been since you've produced a straight-bottom boat, Pat? I mean, when DDC was an option.

Mike, you are saying that "Also they have been making straight V bottom's for 10 x as long as step , pad bottom boats so I would hate to think its been done wrong all these years"...does that mean new technology is not better? Sure straight Vs have been around forever...but that doesn't mean they are the best option. Otherwise we'd all be driving Model Ts still.

Have motors not improved in the past couple years? Remember in the 1990s when it was a big deal to have a 1000 hp motor (and it was not exactly reliable power)...now Merc is selling 1350s like crazy as "stock" power. Technology has improved.

I will agree that high X dimensions are drive killers, but I will disagree with your over-reaching statement that the ONLY reason guys with 525s are popping drives is because they pin it on takeoff and don't know how to throttle. I have a bud that went through 4 XRs on his 42 Fountain due SOLELY to the fact that the drives were too high and he couldn't get the boat on plane. Put spacers in and he's been fine. I also know plenty of heavy straight bottom boats that kill drives due to the fact that they are heavy and have straight bottoms...

it' seem's every time I post you alway's have a ax to grind with me I don't no why . But it's all in the set up and how you drive the boat .
My 28 pantera had a 600 ci 750 hp motor " a lot of TQ" and I ran that boat hard in rough water and also so did Jo from pantera more time's then I can remember " he was teaching me how to drive the boat for racing, so the boat had 90 tough hour's on the xr with all that power and the guy that bought the boat had it on for another season or 2 before a rebuild . when I bought my 38 sonic with 525's the guy before be blew both drive's in 50 hour's I put on over 125 more on drive's before selling with no problem . It's all in set up like I said before , depending on what you want to do with the boat and the biggest is how you drive the boat .
I also had a 38 fountain ec and I hated the way it felt when turning , it alway's felt like it was so loose where as a straight V is nice and tight in the turn's , This is what I like and prefer .
I went for a test drive on a 38 zr donzi a few years ago and they said it ran 90 mph and it did , but it took mile's to get there with no mid range power at all , drive's where high and pretty rooster tail but that didn't impress me ,
That is what is so great about America everyone has a difference in what they like and don't like and can buy or have built what they do .
If everyone liked the same boat , car , motorcycle , RV , plane ect there would only be 1 builder of each , but everyone like something different so there are a lot of different builder's, good or bad to each person is different

"""Mike, you are saying that "Also they have been making straight V bottom's for 10 x as long as step , pad bottom boats so I would hate to think its been done wrong all these years"...does that mean new technology is not better? Sure straight Vs have been around forever...but that doesn't mean they are the best option. Otherwise we'd all be driving Model Ts still."""
''''''
'''''' new technology is better you are getting 6 to 10 mph more out of a boat with the same Horse power , so in that respect it is better , but all the stuff I listed before it's a trade off for handling and a smooth ride in the rough, I would rather have a 80 mph boat that does everything great with 700 hp then a 80 mph boat that only goes fast great with a 600 hp motor """

Have motors not improved in the past couple years? Remember in the 1990s when it was a big deal to have a 1000 hp motor (and it was not exactly reliable power)...now Merc is selling 1350s like crazy as "stock" power. Technology has improved."""""

""" that's why I said earlier that a 750 hp motor built by a good marine builder " Cobra , young performance, teague ,ron potter, just to name a few will last as long as a 525 " better technology"

You have 2717 posts...saying I have an ax to grind with everything you say is a BIT of an exaggeration, as I have found ONE of your posts to be insulting to another member, and this post to be a point of curiosity.

I still don't agree with what you say...but you have every right to that opinion.

Thank you . It is only my opinion like I stated before .
mike

Not exactly.

http://www.schoellmarine.com/conic.htm

You should start a boat company Mike!
BTW, that first line is not how Pat builds boats.

Also, your comparisons of a 28 Pantera with 700HP/Bravo and 38 Sonic with twin 525/Bravo; are not taking weight into consideration.

Key word is " most " I never said that's how Pat build's a boat , but we all no better :)

I no about all the different boats with this bottom design . I sad BASICALLY the same except for the bottom work "step ,pad " also the middle of the deck has been reversed , other wise very close to same hull , if I remember correctly the sonic and active both got popped from another race boat back in the day before you owned the company " I for get the name " if you have the boats side by side they share a lot of the same line's

Totally incorrect. The Sonic was a renamed Coyote. The 37 AT originally shared a similar bottom to the Scorpion which was popped from a Cig. I only kept the basic V shape and totally redesigned the chines and lifting strakes as well as the nose. The hull we bought was a rock solid platform to use as a foundation to build off of. Then we introduced the DDC patented step-design on 1999.

For the record we are building the 29 hull mold with the step. If you want a non-step single engine V-bottom in the 28-29 foot range you are back at Pantera I guess....:bestwishes:

I mite just decide to go bigger twin engine boat . also I have been in a few twin step boat's that have a straight V all the way to the transom and they don't slide as much so that's not out of the question either but I prefer non step boat's especially with my 5 year old on board just for safety reason's
/////////
No Pantera for me :) Sonic possible and A>T if I can get one custom built
I guess Brain was wrong when he stated that you would build one with no step and pad , all you have to do is pull the step and pad insert out of the mold But then the boat would be different from all the rest of the newer A>T's, and different is good , I don't like to be a follower I want it my way :)

Maybe you could build one with TRS's for Frank Sinatra!

Wow, I was overruled.

I did not "no" that was going to happen.

Thats ok , it happen's :)

Were you correct on the twin OB's?

After seeing the 33 with them a 29 with a couple 300's would be a cool boat.

I dunno. We'll have to consult with mike-b@d-spellering first.
We need to fit his consultation into the calendar with Harry and Bobby.

We will offer it with twin OBs. That is a reasonable rig with virtually no weigh gain.

Ummm...I don't think anybody would want to give Pantera any $$$ up front to build a boat after everything that has taken place. This guy should just except the "step" to life and buy the Active Thunder!!

I guess I still think this way and someone has changed there thinking . and I get all the grief

"""" Plus, honestly, the 28 runs so great as is there is not a real desire to mess with it! At 75 mph it is on 'rails'. With a step and 80+ it is a guess.

Hope this helps. Pat """""

If it helps at all Mike, and I can't believe I am saying this but....................
I would prefer a non step myself but really that's just cause I am a old phuck that don't know any better. With that said I would take a 33/37 with a step if I could justify it these days but I can't so for me a good ole 32 is in my future. I hope.........

If I were to have a 29 built I would want no composite and all wood construction, used TRS drive, carbed engine and of course a non-stepped hull. I guess I'm just old school.

Why not a pair of old teal blue Crusaders and shaft drives?

Coupled to an OMC Cobra outdrive?

You don't have any X-dimension numbers for that.
Can you think of a boat builder expert right there in Fort Lauderdale to consult? :drink: :party-smiley-004: :drink:

Well jezz, if yer gona go OMC and old blue crusaders might as well use the ones with the screw jacks in the front of the motor for trim adjustments.

how about one of these with a multiple speed transmission , a lot better then OMC and crusader and thinking outside the box :) also the best fuel economy :)
page 4
http://www.mshs.com/pdf/brochures/FP...PT_N67-560.pdf

Hey Pat any updates on how the 29 is coming along?

Ya! what he said ^^^^^^^^^^

I'd consider coupling it to a KING Cobra, but only if I could keep the prop shaft depth to 8' minimum.

We are cool. Moving forward slowly but every move counts.

Admit it Pat, it's taking you more time than you thought to tool that center console helm! :evilb:

It's stealth. It pops up out of the floor as soon as the PR is over.

In all seriousness, I think this boat has great potential in today's market in either the single I/O or twin OB configuration. Really looking forward to seeing the finished product.