Man, the JASSMAN & ThunderDan don't hold back! It seems that most everyone on OSO know what they want and why they believe in it, and never really "try" to "purposely" trash the others for no reason at all. Then you get some new guy, who comes out CRYING about (nothing) and tries to be anonymous...by looking at his "recent posts" it tells me he isn't truthful, so i go with the flow and respect "Active Thunder" and there product, just like i respect the Sonic. But we all have a preference!

You guys on this forum are scary, too much anger. I'm going back to the nice peacefull Sonic forum where I'm going to harrass BN into buying big power!! :D :D

I just get upset when someone new, has trashy posts, uses an alias,talks crap on something he is unaware of, I went through this right before I bought my boat with Power Play. You dont trash the competion for the purpose of retaining a sale, and then when I commented on this someone called me and left a message M-F me up and down because I didnt buy a PowerPlay, thats bull**** and umproffesional. I state facts, I dont sugar coat anything, but I speak my mind only of true facts. Sonics are good boats, and whether AT resembles Sonic are inmaterial, Sonic did not invent the boat, side by side the AT looks sleaker and thats the way Pat wanted it. Its what puts him ahead is the innovative things they are doing, Paint/graphics, new cockpits,new leather-tech cabins, finely tuned bottom,the best speeds in their class,the best warranty in the business,resonable prices. The man has a passion for what he does, it shows, he works 12 hour a day 6 plus days a week, I know cause Im always calling him. Bottom line there are many good boat companys out there and we all have a choice, slamming a boat co for a sale sucks, or saying you copied me is meilymouse, base your decision on facts and do your homework, and you will see who has the best ASS KICKEN BOATS Godd luck everyone. :D

Hey boys... Thought I should let you know not to expect results on the test rides of the sonic and AT after this next week.(H2Owarrior is my hubby) Had a death in the family and had to cancel the trip. :( Will have to reschedule in the near future and post our findings when we get back. Have a great Thanksgiving....not too much turkey or those boats will be leaning to the Starboard side come April :) :p

Jassman Are you always calling because your thunder is broken??? :D :D

No Cliff, They are building it, and I had alot of Qs on my paint, they just finished it, check it out www.activethunderboats.com hit graphics and scroll down to boats under construction, hit RADIOACTIVE. This is what a real boat should like :p See ya next year :D

H2o and Tbikini, Im sorry to hear about your death in the family, peace be with you, good luck to you and your family members.

Jassman Not to bad. What power are you putting in that thing.

Cliff, I am going with 500efi and am changing to xr drives. Pat and I are also doing reserch on blowers, probably whipplecharging them right away. Talk to you later. :)

H2oWarrior and Tbikini, sorry to hear about the loss...god bless!

Excuse me for being new, but what is the big deal? Is Sonic and Active Thunder that close? I thought Active Thunder was a smaller, custom builder and Sonic is a larger production builder. Don't they both serve different markets? Just wondering what all the fuss is about!

Jeff,

You are back on the whipple kick again, huh... :p :p

H2o, Tbikini, my condolences, hope things turn out as best as possible. Supercharger, I wouldn't consider Sonic a production boat, they build about 200 a year, and will do whatever you can think of. The reason they build a lot more than Thunder is that they've been in business about 18 years longer. I expect Thunder to rapidly grow to the same production volume. Jassman, all the controversy here has me doing my homework, I just ordered the 37 literature. You are right, for the cash we spend, we need to find the boat thats best for us.

Jassman, boat looks hot! :cool:

Sonic is a semi-custom (correct me if I'm wrong) boat builder of very high quality. Its boats are known for rough water prowess, three-piece construction, deep freeboard and very elegant cabins with better than average cabin height and amenities. They are located in South Florida.

Active Thunder is a custom builder located in South Florida. Its boats are known for high quality, extremely tough construction, high speed hull designs, deep freeboard, unlimited options and, with the introduction of the millenium cabin, very elegant cabins with above average cabin height and unlimited amenities.

In additiion, the Sonic 386 and Active Thunder 37 are very similar in overall length, freeboard, construction quality, rough water prowess, cabin amenities and cabin height. Further, both boats have a similar profile, rarity and purchase price. Both maintain strong resale value. As such, they are competitive boats. The real difference is that Active Thunder's are faster with the same horsepower while the Sonic will have more headroom in the cabin and can only be purchased with a traditional deep-v hull (the AT can be ordered with or without a step).

[ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

Miller,

Pretty damn good sumation, you must be an attorney..... :D :D

Actually, I was formerly an investment banker turned money manager. Now, I am a man of leisure who is trying to decide what to do for the next 50 years or so (I'm 28).

Pat would like me to buy allot of Active Thunder's and travel the country showing them off at Poker Runs. I like that idea, if only the market had continued to go up, up and away... Now it looks like I might actually have to go back to work. :D

GO4Broke, thanks I apprieciate it, it was alot of fun working with Steve on the design and colors, I just wanted something bold and different. Hey Thunderdan, I like yours to, the yellow and blue looks good, another Picasso.

Activethunder Dan - I really want more power, once I hit triple digits Ill be happy, also remember what happens when we go over 90, Im keeping her to it. :p :D

Hey ThunderDan,

I made a true statement about the 37.
I lived in West Palm Beach for about 2 years and read about the incident in the paper. I moved to Cherry Hill for about a year and now live in the Virginia area due to my work.

So, I don't know whom you and Pat have me confused with!

This board is for information and I gave it.
I have a Sonic and love it just as you love your Thunder. Everyone has his or her own opinion. I don't appreciate you and Pat accusing me of hiding behind an alias. I am not hiding anything - just stating the facts. As for this guy Pat - I don't know him and I have no beef with him or his boats - he must have a beef with some people - so direct it towards them.

This board is for information so don’t take it personally.

ED

:D

Hey ThunderDan,

I made a true statement about the 37 rollover.
I lived in West Palm Beach for about 2 years and read about the incident in the paper. I moved to Cherry Hill for about a year and now live in the Virginia area due to my work.

So, I don't know whom you and Pat have me confused with!

This board is for information and I gave it.
I have a Sonic and love it just as you love your Thunder. Everyone has his or her own opinion. I don't appreciate you accusing me of hiding behind an alias. I am not hiding anything - just stating the facts. As for this guy Pat - I don't know him and I have no beef with him or his boats - he must have a beef with some people - so direct it towards them.

This board is for information so don’t take it personally!

ED
:D

CrazyEd,

I'm afraid that the "facts" you stated are only partially correct. Your right that the boat rolled but your not finishing the whole story. The boat off of Pompano is the AT F2 race boat. They were out testing last year when at the last moment they say a diver way out in the water and made an emergancy turn to avoid hitting him. As far as your "safety" concerns, I have 2 children and we have boated all over the country in all different types of water. I have a 32' and wish I could move up to the 37' step. I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to put my kids in that boat and head out anywhere. I know this that when I was looking for an offshore custom boat I too looked at Sonic. And when I asked Pat what his opinion of the boat was he had nothing but good things to say about them. I liked the Sonic vedry much. For me it wasn't so much the differnece in the boats as it was dealing with the man behind the boat. Pat is a straight shooter and doesn't hold back in telling you what's on his mind. He is the most honest person I have come across in the South Florida custom boat building scene. And take this from someone who lost a considerable amount of money trying to get a diffent boat built back in '95. After knowing what had happened to me with this other boat builder Pat did some things for me to earn his respect and trust that NO ONE else was willing to do to get me into a boat.

Ed I would like to know how many other boats you know of that have rolled over. I know of fountains and cigs and outerlimits and I'm sure there are others that have. It all boils down to getting to know you machine and being smart in how you operate it. I'm sure there are plenty of non-stepped boats that have gone over as well. If you make statements in the future I would just ask that you would tell the whole story not just a small part to suit your aggenda.

Todd Kjell

Ed,

If you read my post I asked you some other questions? What Thunder have you seen that had fit and finish and gelcoat problems?

I also asked how you knew about the 28 Thunder sitting on the floor at Active Thunder with a 496 HO in it? Have you been to the factory before? I saw that as one of your first post and made an assumption, one that I thought was correct. If I am mistaken then I apologize for the second time. In my previous post I gave you the reason why my assumptions were made and apologized in advance if I was wrong.

As far as the hiding behind a alias, you have no e-mail address in your profile nor did you sign your name to any of your posts. That is why I asked what your name was.

You are right about a few things, I do love my Thunder and do stick behind it. Take a look at Todds post about what did happen to the f-2 boat and why it rolled. That is why I posted that you need to learn how to handle any boat before you run it.

You stated the facts, but not the whole story about the F-2 boat that rolled. You are correct, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

My posts were always asking you questions and in a good natured way. I was not attacking you, just trying to get some clarification to your response.

That is all folks... :D

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: thunderdan ]

So Ed, who the hell are you, where do you work, what do you do for a living. What is your real name or at least give us your initials. Your absoutly correct, this board is about information, but correct information, not bull****, if you want to slam or talk about nothing you know about, take it someplace else. I have been to the Sonic factory, my buddy ownes a 42ss, great boat, I almost got talked into by Jay, I bought the Active THunder, for me they gave me everything Sonic did but more, and bottom line its quicker, rides awesome,better cabin, ass kickin graphics,best warranty in the business. Why dont anwser some of our Qs so we can straighten you out on a couple of things. :p

I got an e mail from Steve @ Thunder today. Yesterday (Sunday) I requested info, he put it in the mail today! Plus the personal reply. I'm impressed. I love my Sonic more than most, but I don't get that kind of service from Jay. Definately has me thinking....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miller:
[QB]Sonic is a semi-custom...

Semi custom???

A while back I posed a question on this board asking for the definition of a “Custom Builder” and could not get one. General consensus was that a custom builder is different things to different people. Now I’m seeing the term “Semi Custom”. WTF

As far as the issue being discussed – I would go with the A/T. They satisfy my definition of a custom builder. Sonic does not.

29Outlaw, I think generally agree on what the terms production, semi-custom and custom can mean. However, discrepancies often arise when trying to fit the terms to particular builders.

To me a production builder is a company that offers a standard boat, standard pricing and only limited options for the models they construct (Baja, Donzi, Scarab (excluding the custom shops some now offer)). If you want the boat you see in a magazine, with Merc. power and nothing out of the ordinary these are the builders to use.

A semi-custom builder is usually a builder that offers a base boat, a set of pre-determined options and standardized options but who is willing to add features to the boat that are not listed on the option sheet for additional money. Usually, adding exotic power, customized amenities and graphics, are priced on request. However, special layups, radical changes to the cabin or interior layup and changes to the molds (like a lowered cockpit floor or flat race-style deck) cannot be accomodated (Sonic and Hustler are good examples).

A true custom builder will, for a price, build your boat anyway you want it, as long as the boat's safety and structural integrity are not compromised (Active Thunder, Outerlimits, Cigarette and Skater are good examples). So, if you want the cockpit floor lowered, new dash panels molds, radically different rigging, race layups, etc. these are the builders you go to.

Anyway, this is how I think of the differences in builders. My definition and the way I view certain manufacturers may not be in agreement with everyone.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

I must agree with Miller, he pretty much hit the nail on the head!

I thought of an example that might help clarify things. Suppose for a minute that you are a professional football player. What's more you play tackle and stand 6'7 and weigh 350lbs. Now, you like boats allot and want a performance boat. You've narrowed your choices to the following: Donzi 38zx; Sonic 386; Active Thunder 37AVH. You would really love to own any of the three but you don't feel comfortable at the helm of any of the models you were on at the Miami Boat Show because the bolsters are too narrow for your hips/waist, when you stand in the bolster your ass sits on the headrest and you feel you're standing both too close to the dash (you're knees hitting is an indication you could use more room) and standing too high above the freeboard. You'd like more cockpit depth. So, you approach the three companies at the Miami Boat Show expressing your interest and tell the person at the display you'd like to pay cash but need some changes made. This is what might happen.

At Donzi display, the salesman says, we'd love to have you in on of our boats. And, goes on to say that you can use the adjustable footrests and McLeod bolsters to lower yourself in the boat and find a way to get comfortable. You try lowering the footrests all the way down and do feel you're more comfortable but still feel too close to the dash and your body is tightly squeezed in the bolster. The salesman mentions that you should be "Criscoed into the bolster in an offshore boat so you don't bounce around" but that because of the nature of the build process Donzi can't change the bolster location to give you more legroom. So, you go to Sonic.

You talk to J. Ross and he listens intently before offering some options. First, he says he can move the bolster stanchions back a few inches, swap the standard stanchion mounts for ones with a longer frame, so that they hit you at your hips and aren't too low to the cockpit floor, and he can make the bolster wider to accomodate your girth. However, he can't do anything about the boats freeboard but does offer to make a custom plexiglass windscreen that is both higher and with a more pronounced rake than his standard version to keep the wind out of your face. You like the options offered and feel you'll be more comfortable in the Sonic than in the Donzi.

Now, you go talk to Pat at Active Thunder. Pat listens to your needs and mentions that this is no big deal and that there are several things he can do depending on how much you want to spend. He can offer all of the options that Sonic offered you on a price point competitive with them. However, if you're still not happy, Pat (for extra money) can lower the cockpit floor by installing custom fuel tanks with 160 gallons of capacity instead of 200 gallons because the 160 gallon tanks require less height under the cockpit sole. In addition, he'll add a custom wrap-around windfairing of solid fiberglass that will be bonded to the existing fairing and will also extend around both sides of the cockpit thus adding as much additional freeboard to the cockpit as you're comfortable with. He assures you that the extension piece will be made of solid fiberglass and will be completely bonded with the existing fairing so well that it will be covered as part of the lifetime hull warranty against any type of failure. He also states that the fairing will be imperceptible to anyone else. In other words, it will look as tough it were part of the original design. Finally, to insure perfect comfort behind the wheel, all the controls and the entire dash layout will be designed around your dimensions and your layout preferencse so that you don't feel cramped. You really like what you hear start walking around the boat again imaging that you own it.

As you're thinking about all of your choices you see a number of coochie mommas hanging all over one of your teammates jut before your teammate disappears into the cabin of the Magnum he just purchased. You promptly forget any ideas you had about a performance boat and run to buy a 50 foot Magnum... You then announce: "Hey Ladies..." :D

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

Hmmm,

When I bought my Donzi I asked them about some pretty strange stuff and they said "...if you got the money, they can make happen".

As far as Baja - I know they will make minor mods for you (moving a seat location back - no problem). When I was at the factory, I saw boats being built with Diesel power, wild power, and even no power. I also saw boats shipping with no paint and also saw boats getting ready for custom paint.

29Outlaw, Donzi, Baja, Scarab and many other traditionally production oriented builders now offer a service whereby they will take a boat off of the production line and customize it for a those with enough money. However, by no means do the majority of the boats they produce undergo this process. I specifically mentioned that some have custom programs and for the sake a giving you and idea of how the terms production, semi-custom and custom are used, exclude the custom shops for the sake of getting an understanding of the general differences.

In any event, maybe my view is wrong and if you choose to disagree with what I wrote, that's cool. I thought I would try to answer your question and be helpful, but it appears you disagree with me and that I wasn't able to assist you. Sorry about that.

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

Miller,

Great informative post about the value and definition of a true custom boat builder like Active Thunder, Kudos :D :D

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: thunderdan ]

Miller,

I agree 100% with your definition of Custom and Semi Custom. The only point I'm trying to make is that more builders than you think fall into the category of Semi Custom based on your definition.

Outlaw, I hear you. Just to simplify my narrative, I used broad generalities and eliminated each and every permutation. I do think that the lines are becoming increasingly blurred as Wellcraft has setup as custom shop for Scarab which will allow one to order a boat exactly the way they want it. Baja also has a new custom shop for the same purpose. While I am uncertain as to Donzi's current setup I have heard that the manufacturer will make changes as long as the customer can afford it. However, generally speaking those companies are really two manufcturers in one. They are a production builder pumping out lots of very similar boats that differ only in color, engines and added options. Each is also a semi-custom or full-on custom manufacturer that takes a hull from the production line and then uses it as the base upon which the customer's dream boat is fashioned. But, since the vast number of boats from most production builders who have custom capabilities are produced without any customization, I chose to only talk about those manufacturers in terms of their being production oriented.

Anyway, I think we're on the same page.

Mr Miller has done his homework! Also, it seems that by the time you modify a production boat to the way you want it, you could have a full blown custom built boat!

Miller, if my phone rings tomorrow and Jassman or ThunderDan asks for 160 gal. fuel capacity I am visiting N.Y. for Thanksgiving and you and I are talking turkey....And if they disappear into the Magnum I will NEVER take that Baja in on trade.

Well done Miller, I could not have explained any better. I have stated this before on some earlier threads, when I was looking for a boat I narrowed it down to Powerplay, Outerlimits, Donzi, Sonic ,ActiveThunder
Powerplay - Was rude,talked down to me ,
asked me if I could afford their
boat,took 3 mos to send me
info, bad mouth everyone but
Outerlimits.
Outerlimits - Awesome boat just 105k more
Donzi - Way to much, would not customize
to my specs, had to many flaws.
Sonic - Did 80% of what I wanted, didnt
want to be negative about other
builders, but told me certain
things to get the sale. I have
been on and driven a 386 and
42SS, super boats, I thought I
was going to buy a Sonic - Until
I met Active Thunder.
ActiveThunder- Not only did they give me 100%
they gave me more, things that
were not being offered from
the others, Exotic Paint, Wind
fairing-like Miller stated,
mech upgrades to drives, L-
shaped bucket rear seats with
custom embroidery, brand new
millenium cabin-to my specs,
not only theirs,they made
suggestions only to enhance,
the best warranty in the boat
business. Best of all they
treated me like Im the
customer, and did not bad
mouth any other manufacturer.
This boat is an investment,
If Outerlimits can charge 105k
more, Pats prices are going to
have to go up. Its not rocket
science or is it. :D

Pat, no need to thank me. I know you operate under the assumption that you have to give the people what they want!

Though, I was wondering, Pat when are you introducing the 52 foot Coochie Momma Cruiser that I know you're developing? As soon as you do, you'll not risk losing sales to a Magnum.

:D

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: Miller ]

oh ya, they lowered my floor and gave me 160 gal fuel tanks, what a guy :p :D

Jeff,

That is all they did, huh, you and I need to talk. No Pat I only want to make a few changes,three tv's with dvd's, and the two staterooms will do, I do want to add guest quarters though, I think the three 160 gallon fuel tanks are good, and they will give us another foot of freeboard in the cockpit and I only need the auto pilot. The turbine powered engines will be OK. :p :p :D :D

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: thunderdan ]

Oh one more small thing, STEVE, I want to change my entire paint scheme as well as the name of my boat. Miller got me really thinking...... :D :p :p

[ 11-20-2001: Message edited by: thunderdan ]