Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

I dont know WTF just happened but I tore into my starboard engine and this is just a preview of what I found.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

2 lifters are GONE, DOnt know WTF happend to them, and the welds on the stud girdle broke and the 2 rocker arms on Cyl #2 were just sort of bouncing around in the valve cover. Pulled the valve cover off at the dock while the boat was floating and well these 2 decided to jump into daddy's arms right there.
What is really wacked, is all you heard while it was running (and it started up effortlessly) was a tiny faint tink tink sound about once every 20 seconds. So I need to get the engine out of the boat and tear it down to really find out how much damage was done. Evidence of water yes but no water found in any of the cylinders, pulled all the plugs out and no water anywhere.
So Ill be out of the game for a little while im guessing but overall I dont think it is that bad. from a flashlight view the cam looks fine but only real way to tell is going to be yanking it out of there and checking it with a micrometer.
All I can say is ahhhh
OOPS?

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

But with all the new baddging I did she looks better than she did LOL

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

more

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

and some more

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Might take the wave runner out today for I want to get out on the water, its been a while.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Can someone tell me how 2 lifters can vanish from sight completely?

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Oh and for the record, the pushrods looked PERFECT. No peened ends, no scuffs, scratches nothing, like someone put the damn engine together minus 2 lifters. Just the most bizarre thing I have ever seen.
All the problems with the baja engines and I never had this before.
Any ideas from anyone?
Are these stud girdles the way to go wtih these or is there a "better mouse trap" out there? I dont know but I would put a very good guess in the fact that they were (were being the key word here) roller lifters.
When I bought the boat Herb Stotler said to me 10 G's to rebuild the entire engine. I dont think I need a full rebuild but I am thinking hell if I have it out and went to all this trouble I might as well but we will see.
Engine has 50 hours on it according to the hour meter at the battery switches (which really does not necessarily mean $hit)
Might call Laz at Mesa Balancing on Monday and get an opinion on how to proceed with this and what to do.
Guess the 77 TA will be sitting now for a little while until this gets back up and running and issues resolved.
I just have a feeling this is going to hurt.
B.O.A.T.
Break Out Another Thousand right LOL
At least im not crying over this, chit happens just deal with it when it does right?
J

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Jay if there were signs of water in the engine check the headers for leaks

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Bill, I called you 20000 times yesterday to see if you could run up and do the TV show.
I had the header off and to the welder and there were no leaks on the one side, tail pipe either but I pulled the wrong header off.
Hey do you have a place if I had this thing ready to come out that I could pull it out?
My garage is not tall enough to do a cable or chain hoist to pull it out.
Or do you have a fork lift?
Thanks
J

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Bummer............best of luck............graphix look great...........m.m........

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Oh man not a lifter muncher. What were the push rods doing? - trying to jump through the valve covers? Sent those old pics with paint on sides to ya at work.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

hmmm a lifter thief....................the price of the boat plus the repair....was still a great deal or the schuffle revisited?

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

I think Mopower busted a rocker stud a couple weeks ago. I'm guessing the lifters are in the the intake valley.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

These are shaft mounted Crane Cams rocker arms not typical stud mounted (probably another reason these engines are like 30 grand a piece, 900 bucks for rockers OUCH!)
Im going to pull the blower off next weekend and the intake and hopefully the lifters were just pushed out and laying there. The tink tink sound was probably the push rods and the cam bumping around. (push rods look perfect and from a flash light inspection the cam looks okay but Ill have to dig into that next week and im hoping with dart 572 blocks you can at least SEE the cam with the intake manifold and the supercharger off im not sure. At least Ill be able to see it with the lifters out and the intake off and see if there is any scoring on the cam. It is the rear engine so if I have to pull the cam if I can get the balancer off I might be able to pull the cam out inside the boat depending but not sure. I think it has a 2 piece cam cover so I might not even have to yank the balancer off. (that would be helpful big time)
Well im pissed at this happening but Ill manage should not be anything huge I hope. The cylinder has no sounds at all and the piston is fine from what I can tell by yanking the spark plug out and cranking it and using ye old finger over the spark plug hole you can feel it pulling and pushing air through the plug hole so Ill pressurize it with the air compressor and see if it holds pressure. Then at least I wont have to yank the heads. Have to see. I think I am going to switch this to some hydraulic lifters and scratch the roller lifters for more reliability and forget about the 10-20 HP I will loose from it. More reliable is better to me than an extra 10-20 hp. Have to yank the blower to find out the real deal.
Thanks guys.
J

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Woogie, no pics bro
jasonl@falco*****up.info
see if that works.
Thanks
Jason

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

damn it
falcone group
one word damn spelling thing on here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

from experiance I would suggest you check the other motor........look at the heals of your shoes they wear pretty evenly left foot to right foot........m.m.........

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Going to call Crane tomorrow and see if there is any warranty on these or if they will replace them or at bare minimum sell me one of the shaft carriers and 2 new rockers for this thing, I dont want to use the 2 rockers that fell out into my hand.
Hopefully the cam is fine and Ill be able to escape this one relatively easy.
J

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

See all those little metal pieces in your pic ?....There are more of those in your pan...Just waiting....Pull the engine or it will bite you BIG time !
Sorry, Dude

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

my guess is its all tired...........rebuild it all from the prop nut to the water pump..........but what do I know?...........m.m........been there and done it.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Oh yeah, been there too many times.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

I have 2 fresh 800sc,s from the prop nut to the water pump........interested?

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Jason sorry to see this, the rockers are Jesel, call me tomorrow at the shop.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Should have bought the 2 extra engines the boat came with GRRRRRR
No mark not interested, this is a relatively minor problem not requiring 40-50 grand worth of engines thanks though
J

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Maybe I should not have gone out in 10 footers and tried to keep 55-60 MPH up for as long as I did
YIKES!
Lesson learned.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

It happens just roll with it. You know if your out there agian your not gonna be able to resist. :evilb:

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Jay my old shop is not tall. We have to use a friends lift. Be in the new shop in about 6 weeks. I had already backed out of that show, but did not get your message until 5 or 6 Sunday nite.

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

But its an Apache!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Just my opinion but most of this type boat is sold when it is tired.The owner goes to a boat shop and finds out what it costs to repower or freshen up.When he is informed of the # he details the boat and trys to sell it.....one of the reasons I have had the geat results is I bought mine with no motors.Put in stuff I was very familiar with.....m.m........p.s.......I dont think I am smarter then any one just doing it longer therefore I have more of an education on this subject and have paid dearly for it............mark.....

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

well whats bothering me now is I call Herb Stotlers shop and no one answers the the phone then hangs up on you while its ringing after about 8 rings.?????????????????
Seems a little ODD dontchathink?

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Jay he should be in on Tues. I think he was at the races this weekend

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Cool, You the man Billy thanks
Be talkin to ya soon!

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

I spoke with Herb today and he was more than cordial and in a great mood. dont look too much into it ok :rolleyes:

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Damn bro, just got back into town and saw this...sorry to hear this happened to you....I've been there as well; but that is to be expected with the type duty I'm giving my rig presently. Don't try to cut any corners with this one. From the pictures, you definitely have metal in the oil and possibly along the rotating assembly. I would not recommend you use this motor again without tearing it apart to the main bearings. It is too expensive a proposition if you do have metal in there and run the engine after simply repairing the head. Better to re-build now and save money.

I lost my cell which had your number in it. Call me and I'll be happy to help any way I can.

Frank

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Frank, Going to see Doctor Herb Stotler tomorrow in Lauderdale. Called him and he has my back, Said this is nothing to freak over and he is a Jesel dealer so the parts are not going to be that big of a deal. He has them all there so its all good considering what happened. Just hope I can get out of work in time to get to him in Lauderdale.
Ike and Ratman also both told me not to panic that this is somewhat normal and unfortunately it happens on occasion. My biggest problem at the moment is it keeps freakin RAINING everyday after work so I cant get over there and do anything as of yet. GRRRRR
But like I said Doctor Herb has my back so thats where im heading tomorrow.
So now im officially part of the www. Messed up blower engine .com right?
or www. big boys broken toys.com LOL
Hey at least im laughing about it, last week I thought I was having a freakin stroke, heart attack and anxeity attack all at once when those rockers fell out into my hand. Almost like your wife's uterus falling out after your done, like WTF ARGHHHHHHHHHHH
J

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Jay, it looks like you have an awful lot of reversion in that rear header pipe. Was that header leaking? Also, if the header/tailpipe connection is leaking I have seen it cause reversion. A rusted exhaust valve stem can cause the valve to hang open, then beat the heck outta the roller lifter and may even cause the rocker to break.

I've also seen solid roller lifters fracture the roller and get stuck in the lifter bore, hold the valve open, kiss the piston and break the rocker arm. I hope this isn't the case.

Is the motor a solid or hydraulic cam? Lots of guys are pushing the new "tight lash" solid rollers but I have nightmares of solid rollers from a boat I worked on a while ago. We had to replace rollers and springs every 50 hours. :(

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

Solid roller lifters I believe. Had to put all of this on hold due to the major amount of work I had to do over last weekend at my office and then this week with the storm Ernesto it had to sit but I hopefully can get down there today or tomorrow, and fish out the lifters and get to herb's shop sometime soon I hope. Going to call to see if he is in today but it being a holiday weekend my hopes are not up on that.
Its okay she will get fixed and life will go on

Re: Houston we have a problem over !!!!!
 

obla dee, obla dah! life goes on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!