Well, I still don't get it.
 

Just browsed the new Poker Runs of America magazine and found an article about the new "Apache"(as opposed to the real Apache, you know, the one that actually built the 41's and 47's). Against my better judgment I read the article. The magazine was correct in pointing out the Trademark issue is in the courts. Alot of the other information supplied by the company reads like fiction. And Fiction can be fun. They own the "Apache" name and trademark ????? " I did my research. Everything looked good and I bought the Apache Trademark for 500,000$ " Well, maybe a little trip to the USPTO website would have been a good idea. Just a thought. I hope the courts rule on this issue soon. Also, who are the three original Apache crew at the company ???????

Its going to be interesting when this company has to change its name. Please list your ideas for the new name of this company, soon to have serious marketing issues.

Geez Carl.....let it die will you.......

Nah, I get sick of people that take credit for other peoples work and try to push false claims on people. After 15+ years with an Apache I should be able to question this fake Apache company.

Plus, the board has been kinda slow lately :)

Carl you been off your Meds I see.. LOL Before this gets started how have you been ?? I hope OK and Boating!!

Look:For the zillion-th time on here as I understand it ;Thad Allen bought the company and the rights. When GM bought Hummer, didn’t they buy the bragging rights also?

Now Sir if you have a problem then the obvious move would BE.. you should then go to the ONE's he bought it from Right ??

Morning Steve,

No, he did not buy the name or the rights. When you look at the chain of assignments it went from the original company that built the 41's and 47's(not the one that built the 28's and 36's, ie the one Thad bought) to the government to MM. Its pretty clear when you know where and how to look.

I know you just build em Steve :) So I won't argue the point with you.

People need to remember that 2 different groups were involved. The company that Thad bought never built the 41's or the 47's. The Apache that actually built the 41'+ boats always controlled the name and trademark before the government took over and got the factory, inventory and trademark.

The facts are the facts. Anywhere you look up the Apache name or the Indian head logo Mark McManus Inc is listed as the owner.

People can file lawsuits for anything in this country. The actual merits of the case doesn't matter. For better or worse, its our system in this country. This upstart Apache is just trying to throw alot of money at the legal case in the hopes that the real Apache will fold. Its not going to happen.

Opinions in the public domain don't matter legally. Statements in magazines have no weight in court. Slick marketing campaigns can't change the basic principles and rules of trademark law. Federal Court trials are not like episodes of L.A. law. Federal Judges are professionals that know the law(very very well) and marketing and B.S. will not carry alot of weight with them.

Take Care

Carl

Carl
 

You da man!


Oh . . . and you also happen to be correct.

way to go carl
 

as usual the one who must cover their tracks takes the defensive.its past the point of being funny.before you can have bragging rights you must be able to prove yourself.its obvious no one did their homework before buying whatever they thought they bought.many years of offshore experience went into the apache.no matter who you side with mark m. or bob s. it is a fact that both of these men have the knowledge and history with apache.it takes years of hard work and dedication and fortitude to make it to the level that they have reached.i am surprised at bill t. and his magazine to allow such an unnerving piece of literature to appearer on his pages.maybe bill should print a story on mark m. and let the public see another side to the story.hey,Mr. bill t.,why don't you do an article on mark m.let me ask you,would you picture the logo in that article? would you do honest research and print not controversy, but facts?i would hope so.carl keep up the support we are with you brother!

So like how much longer for this new 41' no name to be completed?

Stop it man ... your killing me over hear !!!:D :drool: :D

The boat is completed.They have not decided on an appropriate name for it yet:p ;) :D

Seem's the LESS people know the more they Talk.. I will keep you guys posted on the boats.



As always Best regards.

Steve,

You have no idea what I know. Fact is, the courts will prove me right. Your boss knows the truth, he just chooses to ignore it.

Take care

Carl

Steve,

You have no idea what I know. Fact is, the courts will prove me right. Your boss knows the truth, he just chooses to ignore it.

Take care

Carl

=======================================
Carl who did he buy it from ??

Best Regards

Steve,

I really dont care about who Thad thinks he bought it from(its not my fault he can't do his homework). What pisses me off is the legal crap with Mark M. The company Thad bought NEVER, let me repeat, NEVER(as in did not) build the 41 or 47 Apache boats that everybody knows. For him to say he some how bought the legacy( or name) of the famous Apache's is BS plain and simple.

Go back to building boats Steve, you don't know the facts, and considering who you work for, you have a biased opinoin. Like I said, the courts will decide this, and marketing B.S. or posts on boards will matter exactly zip.

Alrighty now! This is more what I expect when I come in the Apache formum!:D

Talk about beating a dead horse......not that it makes any difference ...but as I recall, no one really seemed to take offense to the fact that they were using the Apache trademark when Bobby and Jack were involved in the beginning....Mark McManus was only brought up in the context as to who owned the rights to the Logo.....It is only natural now that Bobby has exited, that credibility has been called into question......I personally could care less what they call it...if it is everything they say it is....I hope they build it.......How many times do you have to rehash this before you can finally bury the hatchet???:rolleyes:

dead horse
 

radical what you may not understand is that one of the factors that maintains the value of the apaches resale is its authenticity.as an owner i do not want my investments value to be questioned.thats what a lot of the fuss is all about.the article which appeared in poker runs American reminds me of just another infomercial.if thug allen is such a great business man then he should do his own thing his own way, and not relate to a piece of history that he thinks money can buy.my opinion,thank you

heh, I haven't even begun to beat this dead horse :)

The worlds greatest business man doesn't do his due diligience when buying a business. Or he does(who the hell knows), doesn't like what he hears, but buys the company anyways(once again, who the hell knows ?) and starts lawsuits in the hopes nobody will want to spend a ton of money defending the trademark(wrong guess :) ). So Mark McManus, who is a decent, honest man has to spend time and money in court instead of building boats. Everybody else should just go along with it because people don't like to read endless posts about it on OSO. Nah, I would rather beat the dead horse than watch this guy trash the Apache name.

Carl.....how many boats has Mark produced in the last ten years???? Last five years????? Last year???? My point is that no one seemed to have a problem with it when Bobby was involved....and he never built a 41 or 47....and now that Bobby is not involved, it is suddenly an issue....look...it seems to me that posts like this have more to do with flaming Steve than getting things straight for posterity's sake....The fact that a "thug" as you put it, wants to buy the rights to the Apache name, will in the end have the same effect on the resale value of an Apache as when the original "thug" went to prison for the murder of one Don Aronow.....the boats will always stand on their own racing heritage, and all this circus B.S. will only serve to keep the name in the public eye......end of story.

Thug ????? where in my post did I say that ?????

For the last 10 years Mark has continued to build new boats and restore over half of the old Apaches. As a long time client(16+ years) I visit the factory every year and have seen new apaches built. This year I saw a new apache just out of the mold. Kevlar/Carbon Fiber, very cool :)

Sorry Spitfire, but I'm not going sit by while this new company tries to rewrite history. I've been involved with Apache as a client since 1988 and the amount of B.S. I have read on this board boggles my mind.

Carl....I really dont think you have to worry about Thad Allen rewriting Apache history.......do you??? And please accept my apologies as it was wampum who called him a thug.....Rich

probably a dumb question but why is the same logo (indian head) seen on both McManus bult boats AND Saccenti boats?

did they have an agreement?

Dude...you've got a lot of catching up to do.

Poker Runs America, Volume 7, Number 3, Page 32-33

What in the world are they printing?

Read it closely. Ask around, ask those who have been around, this article makes no sense.

"For me, the future is what counts"- Allen

fact: The Apache trademark is owned by Mark McManus

"Three of Apache's original crew"-Allen

fact: What are their names, please? And by the way, who was there to verify their employment.
Only Mark McManus

"I did my research. Everything looked good and I bought the Apache trademark for $ 500,000"-Allen

fact: The Apache Trademark is Government issued and registered with Mark McManus, Ft. Myers, Fl.

"The boat I ended up buying turned out to be a nightmare. Everything that could go wrong, did".-Allen

question: (research?)

"Allen is nothing less than thorough. Before making his first move, he conducted a personal survey, asking current and previous Apache owners what they liked most about the boat".

question: Who did he survey....not ONE of the 41' or 47' owners I am familiar with. Past or Present.

"When I finally did get to go out in one"-Allen

question: Now you are the "New Apache"?

"So far, it has cost me about 3 Million - and I still haven't got a finished boat"-Allen

question: What can this mean?

**41', 47' Apache owners, past and present, need to speak up, this article is a misrepresentation.

**I challenge all Apaches owners to CONTACT Author/Editor Peter Tasler, Publisher William Taylor at Poker Runs America. www.pokerrunsamerica.com.
1020 Brevik Place, Unit 5, Mississauga,ON,Canada,L4W 4N7. I am.

**If Mr. Tasler wants to write about Apache, he should spend equal time with Mark McManus and the 41' and 47' Apache owners - present and past- and learn the facts about Apache.

Regards, Tony Ferrentino
Apache 41' Owner (since 1993)

Steve

Let me get this straight. Thad can ignore all trademark law because hes upset and he thinks he made the boat better ??????? What a novel legal theory. You should have been a attorney. Before one can claim a boat has a better hull, one should have already run said boat on the water(not on paper).

When I raced my 41 in 1990 we had 950 hp injected motors in it. The boat would run 101 mph. I don't know where you get your HP vs speed numbers, but your inexperience with the 41 hull really shows. Petes 41 had 1000 mercs in it and it ran 104+ and was the fastest 41 at the time. This was before the dry sump #6.

Carl
Actually running an Apache 41, not just talking about it since 1988.

P.S. Hi Tony !!!!

APACHE
 

Carl what you currently running for power? I love your 41, because of you and pete I have wanted a 41 since 1988, when I first saw petes pleasure 41. I have had 2 36's from bobby and they are awsome boats and I will hopefully have a 41 by this summer. Bring that bad boy up to SMOKE ON THE WATER!! Take care Steve.

Hey Carl,

Impressive numbers to say the least!

We ran Zul 800's, side by side 41', with # 6 - 90 mph.
Best day 92mph!


Tony
Actually running a 41' Apache, not just talking about it since 1993.



(Right now I'm busy working on my letter to pokerruns mag. There is huge misunderstanding and the owners of these boats will explain the real story)!

Tony

letter challenge
 

peter tasler and william taylor should be challenged on this article.the local delray area paper did not write an article for/about the delray boat co. Because the reporter did her home work and questioned the integrity and accuracy of her information.she did her home work!at the very least if an article does come to fruition it will be honest and fair journalism.bill taylor is or at least i though he was above cheap controversial advertising and journalism.iv'e now owned two apaches a used 1988 and a new mcmanus built '97,and i too will write my concerns about this article to bill taylor.

Marine grade quicksand is pricey.

Poker Runs America, Volume 7, Number 3, Page 32-33
"So far, it has cost me about 3 Million - and I still haven't got a finished boat"-Allen


It should have said :


"So far, it has cost me about 3 Million - and I still haven't got a finished boat- but I stayed in a Holiday Inn express last night"

i saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to geico!!:p

Hehe, Now thats good news !!!!!!! :)

"So far, it has cost me about 3 Million - and I still haven't got a finished boat- but I stayed in a Holiday Inn express last night"
I just love reading the "Apache" forum... there is always a whirling cauldron of sh!t bubbling on a slow boil!.... and I don't even have to dip my paddle into it to see it swirl.....:D

The Apache board will be alot more pleasant once this wannabe Apache gets its butt kicked in court and has to change its name. Until then it will swirl :)

OK Carl... just for my own knowledge... and I don't want you to go into the history of Apache or any legal points... but which camp is which? I know there is "Apache" and another company called "Chief"...my understanding is both want the name "Apache"... I've gone to the tradmark office... and to be quite honest... I can't make heads or tails of who has the rights to the name....but I'm not privvy to any of the agreements or any of the finer points of tradmark law.... Which camp are you in?... I see you are in Michigan.... I'm guessing that the two camps are Bob S. and Mark M... Bob is in Michigan... and Mark is in Florida... is this correct? And which one is currently using Apache... and which one is currently using Chief... ?

Apache = Mark Mcmanus
Chief = Bob Saccenti
ApacheUSA or whatever they choose to call it = Thad Allen. Its located in Del Ray Fla. This is the fake one. Doesn't own the name or logo for Apache.

The condensed version :)

Hope this helps

Carl

Yeah .... but I rather see 'em get it handed to 'em ON THE WATER !!!!!!!!!!!!

:D :cool: :eek:

Yeah... that definitely is the abridged version....Thanks...:D OK... are they all building boats?... I am assuming Mark M is in Florida... Bob S is in Michigan... and Thad A. is in Florida also... correct?

Yes Mark and Thad are in Florida. I dont know exactly where Mr. Saccenti is building his boats. Maybe somebody who is up to speed on Chief Powerboats can post the location of the factory.

BOBBY
 

Bobby is going back and forth from miami to Ind.,have a good one.