I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. I tried to avoid it on the Mr. Cig thread too.

But you want to know what part did I not understand? Well, I dont understand how you get that I said Lip-Ship brings more than a stock Cig.

Let's go back to the reason this thread was started..."What's the difference between a Lip-Ship 39 and aregular 39?" That was the question.

Refer to my first post. I answered it FROM EXPERIENCE, not from speculation. How exactly do you see that as an embellishment??

Read this part very carefully so you're not confused. By posting that the market demands higher $ amount for Lip-Ship boats, my point was there is a reason for why that is. I was backing up my original post. If I wanted to say Lip-Ship boats get more money on the used market, I would've just said that, pain and simple. Weather you want to sit back and pump up your buddies business all you want, it's not going to change the simple fact that when and if you go sell a used Lip-Ship boat, you have an added barganing chip to deal with.

Don't twist my words or skew what I'm saying. Everyone that sells a Lip-Ship makes sure it's known in the ad. Go perouse the classifieds. Being a "Lip-Ship Edition" is a HUGE selling point. That's a FACT not an embelishment. Even OP will advertise that it's a Lip-Ship. Why is that? Because they, as well as everyone else knows it's a selling point and being a Lip-Ship demands a higher price or a quicker sale. Weather someone pays that price ALWAYS determines on an assortment of issues. But it doesn't change the facts. So again, tell me how I embelished?

And again, lets go back to why this thread was started. Now where, in the original question does it ask for input on any other dealers? But since you brought it up...Whens the last time being an OP Cigarette was a selling Point? Can other dealers build a comparable quality boat that phil does? I'm not going to say no. But I also don't really see it happening.

Read my first post. The question was answered, factually and correctly. You and Fountain40icbm may not like the facts. But it doesn't change them.

trying to cut me dep huh punk... ill get ya....:evilb:

got some fire in this jammy... yeashhhhh.... t bone trying to psuh you guys around, him and his 24 inch pythons.. dont be scared of him, i hear hes a big bear.......:Whatever:

You say OP will advertise its a Lip-Ship edition for more money. Lets see they've had one Lip-Ship boat and its ours. They didnt write the ads, I did!!! Im just representing the boat for what it is. I hope your right that our Lip-Ship boat will get more money. but I highly doubt it!!

Its on!!! :evilb:

Agreed...A superior built Cigarette.:D

And I only used OP as an example. All dealers do it with used Lip-Ships. Again....It's a selling point and a good one at that.

And what does the fact that theres other Cig dealers have to do with this thread?

So are you saying when building a Cigarette, the factory, unless it's a Lip Shop boat, takes shortcuts?

Ut Skips gonna love you for that one PM203!!

i dont know why you guys are giving paul the business.. i know everyone has their loyalties.. i see his point, phil makes sure his people have no problems.. you really cant say that about some of the other dealers, you often hear about boats from other dealers with nightmare stores, dont hear that with phil..

some of my fav cigs are not phils, but i see where just his customer service alone, means better product...

we can name off the top of our head nightmares..

how bout vandy, brand new 46.. i also have a few very close freinds that have bought from these dealers, major problems.. i have never heard one from phil...

im not a lip ship cheerleader, he has never sold anything to me, and when i call him, it seems like i bother him.. i have no pony in this game, just see the point paul is making....

wow stecz, I think this is the first seriuos reply I've ever seen you give. And look what happens. It's actually a valid reply with meaning. I'm....stunned:D

Cigarette does not take short cuts and (in my opinion) builds the best boat on the market. Phil uses that platform, takes that boat and makes it better. Everything can be improved, tweaked and refined to set it above others.

stecz20 - I'm in the same boat as you......pun intended. :D I don't have any money on this game either, but like you, I've had similar experiences with Phil. Chalk it up to Phil having a bad day or him thinking I'm some prop kicker, it is what it is.

Phil has designed some great boats, but so have some of the other dealers. You would have a hard time convincing me why I should pay more money for a Lip-Ship boat......and yes, I've owned a Lip-Ship Cig and a Tres Martin Cig. I feel resale value is centered more around the engine/drive package, graphics, color choices, condition, etc. than who has their name embroidered on the vinyl.

I had a thread about a year ago in which I asked Lip-Ship owners why they think their Lip-Ship Edition boat is so much better looking and better performing than the rest. I never got anything solid out of anyone. After my research, I came to the conclusion that they are not superior boat to any other Cigarette AND I can get any other dealer to do the same thing that Phil does if I chose to. Would I buy a used Lip-Ship boat? Absolutely! Would I buy a new Lip-Ship boat? No....I'll save the extra coin for gas / bar bill! :p

Personally, I look at a Cigarette as a Cigarette, no matter who puts their name on it. To each, his own.....

The reality is that the factory doesn't let much out of their control anymore. The factory does the rigging on all of the boats now so the dealers have less influence on the outcome. Phil does have extras that he adds and has contributed much over the years to the product you see today. When you get a boat from Phil he has gone thru it and many times redoes things that in his opinion are not up to par, and he does spend time dialing the boat in. Keep in mind that he is the ONLY exclusive Cig dealer and that does play a role as he is very focused on the product; his experience and knowledge run deep.

As others have written where he really shines is the customer service aspect; that was very important to me because I wanted to keep my boat in Miami during the winters. How many guys got a call from their dealer after running to KW to make sure everything performed well?

OP and Pier 57 are also top notch dealers; it just depends on what your priorities are. Best wishes and enjoy the experience of having a Cig custom built for you...when it's all done you'll understand.

Maybe shortcuts was the wrong word. However, when you are buiding a one-off, low production style boat, not a cookie-cutter, volume production style boat, there can be slight variances in the way it is constructed/finished. Having an extremely knowlegeable and respected person like Phil on hand during the build can only help. That is why the owners of these multi-million dollar mega- yachts hire someone to oversee the whole construction process during their builds.... Cigarette quality is top notch and a cut above the rest. Having someone there in your behalf to oversee and guide the factory when needed? That's the way I would prefer it.

makes sense. Cant wait to get down to Miami at boat show time!

i have read about the extra touches that come with a lip-ship edition. Can anyone that has been on or own a late model lip-ship edition explain what the extra touches are other than some embroidery? just woundering what is different about a lip-ship edition vs. any other new cig that the factory builds custom for a client?

The most significant difference on mine is the "Lip-Ship" front cabin in lieu of the standard V berth. Some items are cosmetic and then there are those I'm not to discuss.

would you stop it...... im a serious man...

listen by the way, since your setting that kid up with your daughter, would you mind if i asked your wife to dance at the next oso blowout.....:evilb::evilb:

to be honest, years past i see a bigger difference in a lip ship cig to a dealer cig.. today, not so much, they are all coming out tits... cig has upped their game, and its apparent...

im a man that wants service with a big dollar item, when i spend big money i want someone on the other end of the phone, i want answers not more questions.. phil provides that and then some.. we know this, but on the other hand some fellas has the certain dealers in questions wrapped around their fingers.. so, brand, dealer, and some loyality goes a long way..

carry on you swine, and stop all the hate.. do we own fountains or cigs?????:evilb::evilb:

A) youve never been a serious man
B) The kid will never get within a 1000 yrds of my daughter
C) You may dance with kelly Jr. high style (at arms distance, hands above the shoulders)
D) (and most importantly) yes, cigs have come a long way and are nicer than ever, no doubt. However, I stand by my original post which was an answer to the original question.

What is the difference with the cabin?

Now you have my interest, this is some BUDDYOO/Wiggler stuff right here... those I'm not to discuss.... hmmmm
Top Secret Heh?

Yep...Top Secret; all I'll say is that Phil's set-up IS different than the factory set-up.

Regarding the BUDDYOO/Wiggler stuff...I don't appreciate the comparison.

In lieu of the bed the porta potty is moved into the forward section and there are some bins for storage. It is separated from the main cabin by a zip curtain w/logo. I prefer it because it provides a secure place for storage of luggage during poker runs and holds the lifelines otherwise. In the main cabin the benches do not have the thick backs so there is room to lay down on those if you need to. The pic is from the 38 he just built and sold. There's another on his web site.

Lip-Ship Edition For Sale................
 

I have a 39' Top Gun "Lip-Ship Edition" Unlimited For Sale w/Merc, 600's........................the only difference is the embroidery in the cabin by the toilet that says "lip-ship" and the grafix worxs paint and all the lip-ship stickers on the trailer.........and here is Phil's hand on the recall?????

Tank,
You are exactly right about the reason as to why this thread was started. Thus far, the only person that comes even remotely close to answering the question is Omerta One. I am not debating the fact that people may go solely to Phil for his customer service. All dealers have customers that have had better luck with some than others and tend to stick with those dealers. Your “every other Cigarette is inferior” attitude is in poor taste, considering the company you are in. Basically, showing respect is one thing, but showing disrespect is another. After all, there are other paying advertising Cigarette dealers on OSO.

How do I feel you embellish a bit when it comes to Lip-Ship's? Well Tank, embellish is defined as: to heighten the attractiveness of by adding decorative or fanciful details. You do just that when given the opportunity. The point is, at times I feel you play the role of the Lip-Ship cheerleader a little too much.

In regards to your comment about Lip-Ship boats demanding a higher dollar on the used market, I still disagree and don't understand where you are coming from. You posted that there is a reason why the market demands a higher $ amount for Lip-Ship Editions, you then go on to say, "when and if you go to sell a used Lip-Ship Edition, you have an added bargaining chip to deal with." So, I may just be some stupid, inbred, tooth-less ***** from Missourah that's trying to get into a pissing match and pump up my buddies business at the same time, but the way I interpret that is "Lip-Ship Editions bring more money on the used market".

I'm also not arguing the fact that many including myself often include the fact that a boat is a "Lip-Ship Edition" in their classified ad. Like I said before, to some it matters, to some it doesn't. In all honesty, from my experience, most could care less. You, once again, state that being a Lip-Ship Edition demands a higher price or a quicker sale, you then back peddle and say whether someone pays that price ALWAYS determines on an assortment of issues. FYI Tank, that goes with any deal. I could demand, as you say, $20k more than the market will bring for my 1997 24' Baja SST, but that doesn't mean squat, unless I find someone who wants it bad enough. My point is that you can demand whatever your little heart desires for whatever you are trying to sell, but bottom line....it will only bring what the market will allow. BTW, I don't see any facts to back up your claims… all that I see are your biased opinions.

Then you go on to say, "where in the original question does it ask for input on any other dealers?" Well, I'm no Einstein, Tank, but I think it would be pretty safe for one to assume that when comparing a Cigarette to a "Lip-Ship Edition" Cigarette, that obviously the non Lip-Ship Edition Cigarette is going to have to come from another dealer. So, in fact, it was brought up in the intial post. Once again, you imply that other dealers produce an inferior product by saying, "Can other dealers build a comparable quality boat that Phil does?" You follow that up with,"I'm not going to say no, but I also don't really see it happening." So basically, you are implying there is no way that another dealer could achieve such quality, but you just don't want to say it point blank or maybe just here on OSO. In my opinion, that is pretty much a slap in the face to the Cigarette factory boats and those boats that are customized by other dealers.
Regards

I dont think that LipShip Cigs command any more money than regular Cigs..... In fact when I look at a LipShip boat for purchase the first thing that comes to mind is "how much will it cost me to take off the embroidery". Seriously, I like Philly and think that he does great work in the customer service on his boats. I dont think that he offers anything that a half way educated consumer couldnt do on their own. I could get his painter, call Richie and order motors and leave the rest of the boat from the factory and have the same damn thing. If you need hand holding through that process then use the factory or Phil. My choice would probably be the factory since it is built into the cost. I dont need Philly adding a premium to do what I can get done by the manufacturer (and shold be done by the manufacturer).

Yeah, all that CAN be done by anyone.....and it always happens about 6 months AFTER they saw it on one of Phil's machines. Tons of Gladiators were copied after yours. The current standard cockpit/cabin design for the 39 was done by Phil AFTER that side by side seated thing was debuted. The standard design on the 45 is also a Phil original, again, AFTER that 6 person thing was debuted... Probably lots more I'm leaving out.

Just like the paperclip, "anyone can do that". Then why didn't they?

....and about 1% of dealers in any brand ever even look at the boat upon arrival for the customer, much less dial a damn thing in. Phil spent days of probably the most boring time ever dialing in my last boat (and everyone elses) so that we didn't have to waste time doing it when on "our" time.

No, putting a Lip-Ship sticker on the boat doesn't make it go faster, but it at least tells me the boat is going to run as fast and tight as it possibly can the minute I step in.

If someone doesn't believe in what we're saying as "actual" owners then go buy somewhere else! Hell you'll probably save a few pennies as well. Enjoy spending half your Summer trying to make the boat run 80 or whatever they run these days. Also, 2-3 years down the road, enjoy getting zero callbacks or customer service at anytime from "dealer B" because you haven't spent any money in awhile!

You're part of the minority. About 80% I'd say of new boat buyers DO need their hand held. Why do you think they all start to look the same after the boat shows.........no creativity just make it look like "that one".

Yes, many of us could design a killer boat from the paper to the launch. There are many more out there though who haven't been performance boating as long as us and cannot design, maintain, and drive a new boat properly without some sort of professional guidance.

Blume's 600 boat has been for sale almost since it was new and the Zul boat ( http://www.offshoreonlyclassifieds.c...-o8801-en.html ) has had over 14K page views and it still hasn't sold. I don't think the banks care about the lipship designation either, they value the boat at book value based on year/power etc. So in some cases (when bank financing is required) a Lipship premium could undo the deal when the buyer can't make up the spread between the alleged Lipship value and the book value.

I think there is a serious misconception here. There is no "Premium". I have bought 9 boats from him and can testify there is no " Premium". Does anybody on here honestly say they bought a boat from him and paid more money because he sold it to them?? I know 3 or 4 of the cheapest bastards in the country who shop their balls off and would go anywhere to buy it for less if they could and they are his customers, So the whole "Premium " theory is Bull****.....

I do agree with this. We did not pay anymore for our boat buying from Phil or think our boat is worth more money because its a Lip-Ship edition!

I agree. The very FIRST and ONLY number Phil quoted me was very fair and in line with what the other dealer was asking and I very much appreciate that type of straight up approach vs. a BS negotiation. The misconception that your going to pay a lot more is simply not true.

As I wrote earlier there are other great dealers out there... make your decision based on your priorities and enjoy. Personally I'm thrilled with my decision and if someone asks I'll share my opinion based on my own experience.

We can argue this all day long. But, unless you have built several NEW Cigarettes and have visited the factory multiple times during the build, you really don't know what you are talking about.
All Cigarettes are nice, yet not created equal. You probably think I am crazy. But, if you have spent the time and effort and have studied these boats as much as my friends and I have, you will clearly see that MOST of the time, a Lip-Ship boat is just a little nicer. Maybe its the paint or graphics, maybe its one of Phil's new ideas, or maybe the boat is a little straighter (glass wise) or just maybe the boat is a little faster........Anyhow, maybe your non Lip-Ship boat is just as nice, and most likely it is. But, if you want guaranteed best of the best, Phil is your dealer.

WOW, I thought Beak, Indian, and Weather threads were the only ones that got heated! :eek: :evilb: :drink:

Apparently Tobacco has issues too!

First off, I don’t think that all other Cigarettes are inferior. Some of my favorite Cigarettes are non Lip-Ship editions. I will however indulge you by saying I feel that having an outside party walk a boat through production is a superior way to have it built. Having someone micro manage every aspect of the build is a superior way to have it built.

Let me compare this feeling for you. If I was to go to my local Ferrari dealer and buy a new Ferrari, that would be awesome! However, if I could have my dealer go to Italy and walk the build of the car through every step and add things here or there that I wanted, or change something here thus making it a little more custom, that would be better. In my opinion of course.

Omertaone is the only one that has come close? You don't get it. There's more to a LipShip boat than meets the eye. It's a package. Just as everyone else has said.

And just because someone advertises on OSO means exactly what? I don’t bad mouth or attack anyone or thing on OSO. And I would definitely not give an opinion on something I didn’t have knowledge of. Speaking of that, have you ever purchased a boat from Phil?

Again, how do I imbellish? You also forgot to ad that the definition includes and is most commonly thought of as lying. How have I lied?

You say that my attitude is in poor taste, however I think that it is your attitude on the subject that is in poor taste due to the fact you have an agenda. I don’t sell boats for another company; I don’t sell boats for Phil. I have no money to be made or lost in this game. I’m just expressing my personal experiences to someone that is looking to purchase a boat. This offends you for what reason? If someone comes on here and pumps up someone and/or business, great! I wouldn’t say anything negative even if I did have a bad experience. I personally think that is in bad taste.

You say “I play the role of the Lip-Ship cheerleader too much”…So be it. I’ve never been treated better in any business arena than when dealing with Phil. And every person I’ve ever sent to him has been treated like royalty. If I can help out someone that is looking for a boat by steering them in that direction, then I consider it a favor to that person.


Let’s just clear this portion of it once and for all: I do not believe that a Lip-Ship Edition boat will bring more money every time. Sometimes it will, sometimes it won’t. As you yourself have stated; some people it matters to. Yea, you’re right. Some people understand and realize what Phil does and want the added attention to detail. If I were selling a used Lip-Ship, I would also put “lip-ship edition” and sell it to that person that is willing to pay more. Yes, it’s an added bargaining chip to the person that it matters too. I never back peddled. I merely agreed that economy and the situation always comes into play. My whole point on this topic is that, unlike other dealers, “Lip-Ship Edition” is a selling point…that’s not a biased opinion, that’s a FACT.

The last point you make…Again, in my original reply, as I tried to point out. The difference is more than just the boat. It’s a total package. I’m sure other dealers can get a real nice stock Cig from the factory. Sh!t, I’d love to have a stock Cig from the factory and think anyone that buys one is privileged. I just don’t see other dealers walking through the build process of every boat they take delivery of. If I’m mistaken, please correct me. So in short, no I’m not implying anything. A Cigarette straight from the factory is an awesome machine. Phil can make it better. I don’t see too many threads that start off with “What’s the difference between ‘so and so dealer’ compared to other cigarettes”…But I do see a lot of praise from the industry (Phil’s boats have been featured in more magazines and won more awards than anyone else) and on OSO as well.

Basically, I can agree to disagree with you. I’m cool with that. You just need to stop hatin’. Sell a boat, don’t sell a boat. I could care f*ckin’ less. But I will continue to express my personal experiences that I have with Lip-Ship when anyone asks.

The only reason his boats are in the mags is because he is in Florida and it able to give the testers the boat. For all the other dealers they have to ship their boats to Florida for testing. It's just because Phil is located in South Florida. If Phil were located anywhere else it wouldnt be the same period!!

I bought a boat from Phil a year and a half ago and actually paid below market value. Nothing is marked up just because it came from him. They don't cost any more just because they came from him. And as for service, I've never seen anything better. In the summer I boat on the West coast, in the Winter, it's Miami. If I need something done to the boat and it can wait, I have Phil do it. Why? Because the prices are better and so is the quality and workmanship. There's some good shops here in the West, but not as good as Lip Ship. And Cigarette is all he works on. And nobody here has the customer service that Phil does. Words don't do him justice, you just have to experience it for yourself. You just can't put a price on this type of service. And you don't pay extra for the special service. Things get done when promised, no excuses. So to the original person that posted the question, just go to Phils shop, talk to him and find out for yourself. Visit the factory and maybe some other dealers and draw your own conclusions. I think the fact that things are a little heated on here should tell you a lot about Lip Ship. Especially if there are actually a couple of dealers or dealer personnel from other companies on here arguing. And I hope that's not really the case.. Because if it is, then I think you know where not to go. That alone should tell you that a Lip Ship Cig, isn't just another Cig...

Listen, instead of doing all this typing why dont you just call Phil up and tell him that you think he has no talent, his boats are the same as everyone elses, and you think hes an *******!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not so sure of that. When you are being tested by a national boating magazine, you give them them best boat you have. The factory gets the call and if they wanted to, I'm sure they could send one of their newly finished boats that is in Fl. Instead, they call Phil. Case closed. :D:D

I didn't really notice this before, but Fountain40ICBM has that title, and a picture of a Gladiator, that looks like a Lip Ship boat.. WTF? And people are giving him attention because of ????