1989 Cafe Racer inspection tips?!
01-17-2014 | 08:04 AM
#121
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 744
Likes: 1
From: MCHENRY IL
Man O Man, just read this this morning I am on the fence a little bit about this one, I almost get a tear in my eye for FW as I can understand the pain you are in right now, but experience has taught me one thing, this is probably going to end up better for you in the long run that's for sure.
As for the parties involved in this, dealer is shady not how business should be done, I would not do business with anyone like that. What I think he should have done was called you, told you he had someone hot to buy and gave you a couple days to come up with the cash or move on, sounds to me like a desperate dealer low on funds needed the dough fast.
As for Duradude well his actions pretty much sum him up.
Now as far as the boat goes, if I were you I would not lose any sleep over this one. If you start adding up what this one needs in repairs from what I can gather you could most likely buy a loved well taken care of turn key Cigarette with a minimal boat payment that will keep you happy for years to come. You know nothing about these engines or drives with a dealer like this you have no idea what this boat needs.
I have redone a couple boats in my time, they start out as small projects and then poof $30K later your like WTF happened....Here is an example I redid a Supra ski boat last year for my kids thought I was going to put like 3k-5k in boat almost 9k later boat is almost done!!!.I am sure there is many OSO member's who can tell you there small fixer upper jobs that put them in the poor house.
Now as far as deals go, I just bought OSO member Sean's OLD 1987 Café Racer he sold it 2-3 years ago something like that not sure exactly, if you follow this boat on OSO you will find Sean loved this Café redid boat updated engines and drives to the tune of $70,000.00 then sold. It is not in the condition Sean sold it in, but it will be, I will be redoing interior and getting her all shinned up again. I paid $35,000.00 for this Café..........
So the one you were looking at $19,000.00 may seem like a great deal, but was it really? Probably not after all repairs are done.
These old boats as neat as they are just do not bring the cash they used to.
You will find the right boat just keep looking
As for the parties involved in this, dealer is shady not how business should be done, I would not do business with anyone like that. What I think he should have done was called you, told you he had someone hot to buy and gave you a couple days to come up with the cash or move on, sounds to me like a desperate dealer low on funds needed the dough fast.
As for Duradude well his actions pretty much sum him up.
Now as far as the boat goes, if I were you I would not lose any sleep over this one. If you start adding up what this one needs in repairs from what I can gather you could most likely buy a loved well taken care of turn key Cigarette with a minimal boat payment that will keep you happy for years to come. You know nothing about these engines or drives with a dealer like this you have no idea what this boat needs.
I have redone a couple boats in my time, they start out as small projects and then poof $30K later your like WTF happened....Here is an example I redid a Supra ski boat last year for my kids thought I was going to put like 3k-5k in boat almost 9k later boat is almost done!!!.I am sure there is many OSO member's who can tell you there small fixer upper jobs that put them in the poor house.
Now as far as deals go, I just bought OSO member Sean's OLD 1987 Café Racer he sold it 2-3 years ago something like that not sure exactly, if you follow this boat on OSO you will find Sean loved this Café redid boat updated engines and drives to the tune of $70,000.00 then sold. It is not in the condition Sean sold it in, but it will be, I will be redoing interior and getting her all shinned up again. I paid $35,000.00 for this Café..........
So the one you were looking at $19,000.00 may seem like a great deal, but was it really? Probably not after all repairs are done.
These old boats as neat as they are just do not bring the cash they used to.
You will find the right boat just keep looking
01-17-2014 | 08:46 AM
#122
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: Antioch Il
Yes I went back and forth on this also, you are from McHenry so I am going to guess you boat on the chain??? if that is the case you will see me out there. Hijacking thread a bit sorry....
01-17-2014 | 10:41 AM
#123
Ginger or Mary Ann?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 9
From: L
Could be. Are you the guy ordering cams, bearings, pistons, lifters, oil, filters, etc from your marina cause they have Mercury Marine on the box? 
I agree with you. In fact when I replaced my cruisers transom, I used marine plywood cause of the confusion, plus it was no where near the price park35 quoted. I think I paid $65-80/sheet of 3/4". So the small price difference over regular made it an easy decision.
My point was that lots of people, have used a "high quality" ply. Not the cheap stuff with voids and knots. Like I mentioned, a 'search' on here will verify this.
Besides, why is this even up for discussion in this thread? Its a Cigarette. If Cig used marine grade plywood, there would be no need for many to suggest a survey, cause marine plywood won't rot cause it has waterproof glue, more plies and better wood. Doesn't need sealed, right?
Unless everyone is stating a high end builder like Cig doesn't use marine plywood, so sealing wouldn't have helped. Every transom repair Ive ever seen on here is do to water leaks. And how many of those do you think where marine plywood?
Not debating this issue, just saying it's not a must use or it'll fall apart. Seal it.
Back to our regularly scheduled lynching......
US1 most might agree that regular ply would be adequate and assuming that none of the 30 to 40 holes you are going to drill into your transom are going to leak . It only takes one badly sealed hole to ruin a transom . True marine ply is usually more plys and assembled with waterproof glue so that should a hole leak there is less chance the water will migrate throughout the structure as quickly or completely as it would in reg ply . Better material done properly usually equals better result .
Again just my opinion.
RG.
Again just my opinion.
RG.
My point was that lots of people, have used a "high quality" ply. Not the cheap stuff with voids and knots. Like I mentioned, a 'search' on here will verify this.
Besides, why is this even up for discussion in this thread? Its a Cigarette. If Cig used marine grade plywood, there would be no need for many to suggest a survey, cause marine plywood won't rot cause it has waterproof glue, more plies and better wood. Doesn't need sealed, right?
Unless everyone is stating a high end builder like Cig doesn't use marine plywood, so sealing wouldn't have helped. Every transom repair Ive ever seen on here is do to water leaks. And how many of those do you think where marine plywood?Not debating this issue, just saying it's not a must use or it'll fall apart. Seal it.
Back to our regularly scheduled lynching......
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Some people are like Slinkies - Not really good for anything, but they
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01-17-2014 | 10:54 AM
#124
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 2
From: Coal City ,IL
[QUOTE=US1 Fountain;4058618]Could be. Are you the guy ordering cams, bearings, pistons, lifters, oil, filters, etc from your marina cause they have Mercury Marine on the box?
Nope.... Must have me confused with someone else ..... I'm the guy that just bought the trim sticks.
Should I put my street name(OSO name) after my real name ?
Nope.... Must have me confused with someone else ..... I'm the guy that just bought the trim sticks.
Should I put my street name(OSO name) after my real name ?
01-17-2014 | 11:13 AM
#125
Ginger or Mary Ann?
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 11,030
Likes: 9
From: L
Naw. I was just doing some of that fancy reverse psychology stuff, being the devils advocate.
I don't always believe what I say, I may say what I hear.
I don't always believe what I say, I may say what I hear.
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies - Not really good for anything, but they
bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
Some people are like Slinkies - Not really good for anything, but they
bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.
01-17-2014 | 11:40 AM
#126
Neno the mind boggler
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,080
Likes: 320
From: toledo oh
Marine ply the good stuff has two more layers then cdx or ac for that matter also has less voids between layers....quarter in max on any voids.....cdx is yellow pine....ac has fur on outside layers and marine ply usually mohogiany on outside ....good marine ply 3/4 cost about 150a sheet where ac costs about 45...I would never do a repair with anything less then marine ply
At the end of the day your only talking maybe a couple hundred in savings going with outdoor pine over marine fir. Marine fir is much easier to work with, denser and easier to round over plus it does not seem to warp and move around like pine while your working with it. Pine also has oils that do not necessarily like lamination. I'm not gonna say that i have never used big box stuff in the past but that was long ago and not on customer stuff, you can use it but it doesn't make sense on performance stuff. Here in Toledo we have a high end cabinetry lumber place that sells marine fir for right around a hundy a sheet for 3/4, it just isnt worth the savings to use anything less.
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01-17-2014 | 12:14 PM
#127
Neno the mind boggler
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,080
Likes: 320
From: toledo oh
oh and as said above it is even more so about how you install it then it is about what you use. Food for thought a properly installed pine will outlast a poorly installed Mahogany one. Heck for that matter a perfectly installed osb would probably out last a really really crappy fir installation (like some oem's Ive seen in days past )
)
__________________
Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
Throttles- Cleveland Construction 377 Talon
08 OPA Class 1 National Champion
08 Class 1 Geico Triple Crown Champion
08 OPA High Points Champion
10 OPA Class 1 National Champion ( happy now Ed! )
01-17-2014 | 12:34 PM
#128
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 415
Likes: 46
From: North Bay, Ontario/Cape Coral, Florida
Don't quote me but sent me a PM and said he was Phil from Lock 48 Custom Marine, did a quick internet search, couldn't find anything.
01-17-2014 | 12:35 PM
#129
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 723
Likes: 64
From: longisland ny
True dat
At the end of the day your only talking maybe a couple hundred in savings going with outdoor pine over marine fir. Marine fir is much easier to work with, denser and easier to round over plus it does not seem to warp and move around like pine while your working with it. Pine also has oils that do not necessarily like lamination. I'm not gonna say that i have never used big box stuff in the past but that was long ago and not on customer stuff, you can use it but it doesn't make sense on performance stuff. Here in Toledo we have a high end cabinetry lumber place that sells marine fir for right around a hundy a sheet for 3/4, it just isnt worth the savings to use anything less.
At the end of the day your only talking maybe a couple hundred in savings going with outdoor pine over marine fir. Marine fir is much easier to work with, denser and easier to round over plus it does not seem to warp and move around like pine while your working with it. Pine also has oils that do not necessarily like lamination. I'm not gonna say that i have never used big box stuff in the past but that was long ago and not on customer stuff, you can use it but it doesn't make sense on performance stuff. Here in Toledo we have a high end cabinetry lumber place that sells marine fir for right around a hundy a sheet for 3/4, it just isnt worth the savings to use anything less.
