You don't like it when I am sarcastic like you? I seem to remember you posting pics on SOS of #6 gears so you already know the answer to your question. Do you hide who you are on here because you do not advertise on OSO???

Its all good

The whole reason we all use OSO is for fun and there is no bad blood. Just lots of laughs as if we were tied up in a cove somewhere!

Look at when I joined oso back in 05, I bought Bravo Shop last year so yes it was a big plan to have the name of the lake I live at be a secret screen name for the bravo shop. And I have never posted a pic on here. And I have never had a #6 drive lower gear set or have I seen a #6 gear set. I don't hide how many times in this thread alone did someone post my name and #? I haven't seen your info on here!

But only you would now this for sure as you are the all knowing and all seeing.
Its all good it's people like you that keep me looking at this forum. Just the plain truth is boring, thats why we watch TV and go to movies.
If your are in KW next month look me up I will buy you a beer!

I can see a problem with this plan, everyone in KW will be named offshorexcursion, pm me a secret code word.LOL

i can understand everybody's point of view...i am just worried,since im in the market for an xr/xz,that option is still not enough for my needs:27pq,496/whipple (approx 640hp)...with the size/value of my boat,i have to rule out the expensive alternatives (arneson,konrad,bmax,etc)...what is left for me?....xr?

An xr will hold up for awhile.

Your case would be a good candidate to slowly upgrade a xr with better parts as your budget allows. Nothing wrong with doing it that way just not as good as just buying a scx, bmax, arneson etc.

You could have mr gadgets, bravo shop, all american drive, or max machine upgrade your xr or xz good enough to last a couple seasons. Good oil like amsoil severe gear or neo will help. Plus driving smart.

I think Offshoreexc's suggestion is pretty good. One thing I've read about here on OSO from others, but not something I have any personal experience with though is, that Mr. Gadets (DIck) is very good at setting up XR drives so all tolerances ect. are 110% correct. From what I understand, that should help the drives live quite a bit longer as well. I also remember something about XZ gears being used.

Dick, please corret me if I'm way off and my memory is wrong, just something I remember to have read awhile back.

Offshoreexcursion- I live a simple, yet hectic life. I make money, and I spend it. I work all day, and sometimes all night to earn my keep, and when time allows, I recreate. I come home to my rather small house, on my acre of land located on the outskirts of my town and look at my old boat. With all that said, I'm not brightest bulb in the box- but I'm not dense either. I'm not a millionaire, but I do ok with my humble business. As much as I'd like to own a bigger, newer boat with the baddest power and propulsion package available- I have other more important priorities. So I make do with what I have. My old boat is pretty cool, I've spent a lot of time turning into something unique to me. I've also done a lot of research, and had to do a lot of my own work and testing. We as humans, learn from our mistakes to better out futures. Ask the first man to start a fire if it burned him when he touched it, then ask him if he touched it again afterwards. I've made my share of mistakes, and I've tried to learn from all of them. I've broken more than my fair share of inferior parts, and I've figured out how or why most of them broke. The problem within is that if I could afford the best to begin with, I wouldnt have had to suffer the bravo blues like everyone else reading this forum right now. Get on the Outerlimits forum and ask if those guys know anything about bravo problems- I'm sure that unless they have owned a bravo powered boat prior, they'll have no idea. However, if you ask that same group about #6 problems- I'm sure you'll start another thread that looks remarkably similar to every bravo thread herein. Fact of the matter is, there is no bulletproof drive. Anything that moves can wear. Anytime you introduce moving parts to each other, you start a course to it's end. Let's face some facts here, before you decide it's tasteful to be "sarcastic" with people here...

Arneson drives do have few moving parts, and they've been proven to be hell for strong. But what about the weak link? I don't hear anyone talking about the transmission used with the arneson bravo conversion? What about the setup issues? What about the prop issues? I say this with sincerity because I dont know. I have never used one, nor do I personally know anyone that has. How would that drive perform on my single engine v-hull at the speeds I've already been? And the big argument I see here, what about the cost? I don't know how much the kit is, because everytime I ask- I get a different answer. I've seen you argue the point that a complete bravo setup is comparable in price... If you start from ground zero, that is true. I don't know about you, but when I bought my boat it was turn key with a bravo drive on it. I didn't have the luxury of knowledge, nor the luxury of purchasing a brand new boat and being able to choose my power and drive options.

Xr gears are too small for huge power, your right... But that's not the only reason these drives fail. A #6 drive isn't stronger just because the gears are larger- but because of the rigidity of the package. The gear is only incrementally stronger due to size, but largely stringer due to the support provided on both sides of the gears by the use of dual vertical shafts to help reduce the side loads inflicted upon the gears. If you do a capita comparison of strength versus mass, the #6 should live forever with 1000hp if a bravo can live with the same for a while, or it should be able to live for a while with say 3000hp right? Truth be told, it's all relevant. #6 drives have more than their fair share of issues, you just don't read about it here as much because the majority of boats operated here are propelled by bravo style drives due to cost. I don't know the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that bravo drives make up about 90% of the drives on performance boats. Look it up, maybe you can further educate us all. Oh, something else for #6 strength, what about that same transmission that's used in the arnesons?

I will not get on here and say anything bad about rik's drives- I know they are good drives. I said earlier, I've never used one, nor do I know anyone that has- but I can read... It's not for everyone, and the pimary reason it wasn't for me was due to circumstance and timing.

I'm a pretty black and white person, I will only attest to what I know because of personal experience or cold hard facts. The facts about oil, is that there are only a few good oils out there. I've tried almost everything, and everything I've tried I've looked at on a slide under a microscope I purchased for just that purpose. I don't know what makes an oil better than any other, I'm not a chemist. But I can tell you what I see before and after use under a microscope. I can also tell you what I can feel between my fingers before and after use. Maybe you should try it yourself sometime- you may be amazed. I could spend yet another hour of my time writing yet another book about what I see, but it would just be much simpler for you to look for yourself, before you run it- and after. In my limited experience, and in my particular application- the neo has proven to ME to be the best for MY application. I can't tell you what will work best for YOU in YOUR application, but if you ask my opinion about what works for me- I'll give it. Torco and amsoil are both good products. Lucas has some amazing technology, and some extremely brilliant scientists in their employ- but nothing Lucas makes works for me. Nor did the amsoil.

John Pfahl of The Bravo Shop, aka as Waconda here- the owner of the company that NOW manufactures the Bmax drive, and has since he purchased the company name and technology approx 18 months ago-

Here's my opinion of him, for what it's worth. I am not his friend, though I would not hesitate for a moment to be considered as such, in fact I would be honored to be. I spoke to him for the first time in the early part of this year based on a recommendation from a friend that sells and manufactures more parts to performance boaters than any other company in the country. What made his suggestion interesting, is that he does not sell a single part that John offers- in fact he sells parts from practically EVERY OTHER manufacturer, yet suggested to me that I call and speak to John because he felt that the Bmax was my ONLY option besides reconfiguring my boat. Not once was the arneson brought up in that conversation, and I can't say why. My first conversation with John continued into a purchase due to his honesty with me about his drive and the confidence he instilled with his blatantly apparent knowledge not of drives, but of physics and machinery. My decision to try the bmax was not based on his year of ownership of the company, but because of the plain simple physics he possesses. Do I personally think his drive is better than anything else I have tried? Yes I do. Do I think it's the strongest bravo style drive on the market? I don't know. Yes he uses an xr lower gear set, but he has his processes. Do I really buy into the whole cryo/rem/heat treat stuff? I can't say for sure if it works, I've heard too many discrepancies to be sure. Why is his drive strong? I'm willing to bet it's a grocery list of reasons- but my strongest feeling is that it's just a really great combination of many many small differences, better oil, stronger case, etc etc etc.

I'm really sorry I babbled this long about all of this, but I personally felt that your comment was a personal bash on a man I have a great deal of respect for, and maybe just another mans opinions or views on the subjects at hand.

Chill out, boat fast, and have fun. Forums are supposed to be helpful, most of my best ideas started in here. Let's all try to just get along without aggravating each other.

Sorry again for the rant.

I guess I need to sumerize the thread for all the lazy people who skim read. Next week I will submit a book on tape for ya! LOL, HA HA, Just Joking! (to make sure I don't hurt anyones feelings this is all in fun)

mkrytiuk has xr drives with -2 IMCO lowers, twin 850 hp, looking to upgrade "not cost an arm and a leg"

waconda AKA owner of BMAX drives

"With only 850hp in a 35 fountain the is no need to drop a lot of $$$$ on something you don't need or that is way over kill.
The Bmax will work perfect on that application and you won't be with out your boat for months putting it in and spending precious summer time trying to dial it in. JMHO.

This comment started the whole problem. Someone who does not advertise, endorsing their own product, putting down other products, getting sarcastic with RIK from arneson, not listening to what the OP wants. He does not want to "grandma the throttles" I agree. It would be like having a Viper and granny shifting! If my trans and rear axle can not handle powershifting then what the hell do I have a sports car for??? Might as well drive a automatic luxury car then.

OP does not want xr gears which are in the bmax, especially for that kind of money.

Cheap but gaining strength would buy those used SCX drives that just went for sale in the swap shop, and use his SC lowers for now.

Arneson conversion would be next on the list since its the EASY way to put surface drives on, and we all know fountains love surface drives, high x dimensions, etc.

So John "waconda" knows everything about the arneson but was not being sarcastic when he asked about the size of the #6 gears???? He post on here his boat does 104 but on SOS it does 99 and at LOTO it ran 89.

So lets double check this. Looks like JOHN started chit on this thread with RIK, Started chit with me, and won't even listen to what the customer wants???

Thanks for posting this, I always wondered how the hell it had twin vert shafts, now it is obvious, Smitty

ivrepoman

Your boat is sweet! Any OSOer would be proud to own it just as if we owned the mercedes MTI.

No need to be sorry for the rant, thats what the open forums is all about. Perfect place for us passionate powerboaters to share our feelings, ideas, advice, etc.

Yes #6 drives break, it sucks, the boats also have more power, longer, heavier, driven much different, wrenched on much different, etc. NO machine is bulletproof.

Who started being sarcastic again? Your bff john

Arnesons are awesome but also do have downfalls, they are machines. There are options on upgrading transmissions though. Would I use one on a single, prob not. Set up on any speed boat takes dialing in, thats the fun part! You cant tell me your done with yours forever. ( BTW have you talked to cutting edge prop yet)

Neo oil is prob good oil, but not magic oil that makes a bravo style drive last forever, nor is it night and day different then any other good oil,(besides merc junk!)

If you re read all my post I am trying to have fun and not personally attack anyone who I thought could not handle it. I pay alot of attention to the black thunder thread on SOS and those guys tease each other more then any other boat manufacture group. I think the only reason SOS exist is for the black thunder crew. So After John started all this on this thread I was hoping he could handle a little fun.

ivrepoman, you and I sound really alike. Financially, business wise, black and white thoughts, how we like to wrench, etc. If we were all hanging at a poker run together in person, and we could see each others smiles and here each other tones, I bet none of this would be a problem.