Rik

I was just curious at first about your conceptions/misconceptions about Arneson as you mentioned them. I’m not here to sell you nor pressure you..

As for installation, the process is simple and I think after reading your post here there’s possibly some misunderstanding about our #7M Kits, AKA "Bravo Conversion Kits". They in fact 100% the same drive, same drive package/kit. There’s no difference between them in terms is what is supplied and priced. The kits provide all the necessary components needed to install the Arneson onto the boats, regardless of if your boat has an I/O or not as your will need all the components in our kits in order to install the Arnesons on to the boat. What this means is we do not require nor use any Bravo components on the conversion nor on a virgin install. What this also means is that you can/need to remove all Bravo and Bravo related components from the boat as they will not be reused with the Arneson installation.

Tools, yes you will need a drill and drill bit to drill the holes (via our drill template) for the Arneson standoff box. This covers your Bravo- I/O cutout and removes the need to glass the transom up as this is a major fear of most boat owners as they do not want to tackle fiberglass work. Once our standoff box is installed, the rest of the installation is “plug-n-play” so to speak as there’s no alignment, no configuring, no more external drilling required as everything bolts to, thru or via our standoff box including the rear engine mount. Honestly, without drinking a case of beer first, setting our drill template onto the transom and drilling the 10 stud holes does not take more than 30 minutes. However, we cannot ignore that the transom has to be cleared of the Bravo components first on a conversion vs nothing being there in the first place. There’s 8 studs on the Arneson and 4 bolts on the trim cylinder and 2 on the steering cylinder plus the 4 hose that need to be installed which doesn’t honestly take 20 minutes to accomplish. Outside of the boat is complete and time for more beer before tackling the engine installation.

“Most Arnesons setups” as mentioned are totally different than this as one has to mount the drive at the correct height, then calculate the trim cylinder positions and the steering cylinder positions along with the engine placement configurations and so on and so on. But those setups are not for boats that we are discussing here as “most Arnesons” are for far larger and more powerful boats than what we are discussing here. This makes our #7M Kit/Bravo Conversion Kits greatly easier to install than “most Arnesons”

Belli

I agree, that overall, the installation is basically simple and easy at its core. As your literature states: Ideal for a new boat. I do not believe I misunderstand anything in this regard, but you are using the term "conversion" quite broadly. I get the intent; If a bravo can go there so can this kit, but tossing out virtually every component relating to the Bravo makes the term "conversion" somewhat confusing and or misleading. Nothing about the Bravo is converted, it is discarded, the transom of the vessel is what is being converted by way of a common cutout and bolt pattern. If it reused the transom assembly, or some major component from the Bravo I'd feel conversion would be more fitting. Compatible seems more accurate to me as it stands. The kit and the design simplifies things immensely, totally agree with you there.

I'm not splitting hairs to annoy, but what the conversion entails for someone with an existing Bravo is a whole lot more involved than if there was nothing to begin with. You seemed to take some offense to the mention. Yes, I do not have to fill the transom which is a huge plus. I do need to remove my engines, or at the very least one of them and free up the other from the starting point I am in. Then I take everything Bravo off. Like I said and still maintain, for most of us who have a completely assembled boat using a Bravo, Arneson, beyond the cost, is a much more involved option than swapping out a weaker Bravo outdrive for a stronger model. That factor nearly carries as much weight as filling a transom does to me and I'd imagine I'm not alone in the opinion.

I love the concept but I also recognize that the Arneson drive is in a completely different class in all aspects.I did consider it heavily. It was everyone else who makes a Bravo style upper in the prelims, and that winner was then weighed going up against Arneson. 14 months ago when the boat had no transoms or engines installed I wish I would have known how things unfolded afterwards. I probably would have gone your way back then. The next time I freshen the boat I probably will.

dsmawd350

Bravo conversion.... seems straight forward. CONVERT your boat from a bravo BOAT to an arneson BOAT. It's not meant to convert your bravo DRIVES into arneson DRIVES. But the boat itself

Rik

exactly!!!

Rik

Belli, respectfully your missing it here..

If I/we were using Bravo components it would be an "Adapter Kit" rather than a conversion kit as we are converting a Bravo equipped boat, as well as any I/O, over to an Arneson Drive. We are not converting a Bravo into an Arneson.. It's that simple and yes a new construction involves less as there's less to deal with already in place.

Your making it a big deal but didn't you already remove your engines to make repairs? Did you hold that against the boat, the drive or yourself? I mean your wanting to put a lot of shame onto Arneson when your already doing the same work and are happy or unhappy about it.

I'm not hiding anything.. Also not dodging blame for **** that is just part of boating either. I respect that you made a decision and it will either work out as expected or not and believe me there will be journey in the path to both results that a boat owner has to go through regardless of who's outdrive you choose. You just seem to know so little about the Arnesons and are negative when you spend $$$ and time with others and are not happy with the journey so far. We offer a one year warranty on the Arneson an the transmission we supply in our kit. Beat the **** out of it is what I tell customers as their going to do it anyways... That's how much we believe in our products.

Belli

Conversion, adapter, being compatible, the whole thing is a grey area. I get the point just fine. The entire classification is subjective. I could call a bucket of fiberglass and a piece of plywood a TRS conversion kit just the same.

I'm not actually making it a big deal or blaming you for anything at all. I'm choosing to engage you after I did my research and in the process saw numerous times when you assumed someone was shaming you or Arneson because they were considering something else, as you are now doing with me. Look what thread we are in, it's regarding your competitors product and yet here you are wanting me to explain my reasons for not choosing yours. You are shaming me, not the other way around Rik. I've praised your product and asked questions that help me or someone down the line understand it better. What shame or blame exactly am I placing on you or Arneson? Heck, I even avoided mentioning any specific downsides to the kit until you prodded me. Downsides I am correct about. Some may be specific to me, but most are universal. Next week when I am running the boat with the IMCO setup and posting feedback about that are you going to come in behind me and make it about Arneson again?

This all started because I dared to make the statement that I did not choose Arneson because of "all that goes with it". I think I made and make a solid point. You can simplify the installation of the Arneson onto a bare transom all you want, but in the real world most commonly you need to deal with the rest of the boat, preexisting hardware, engines, the outdrive system in there already. Forget about post install dialing in, or a transmission that fails prematurely requiring more labor to address than a failed Bravo upper. Your own literature states that this is "ideal for new boat installations" and yet you keep marketing it to used boat owners like me, and getting offended when they explain their reality in contrast to your own, seemingly shaming them for choosing something else because you insist installing your kit is barely more complicated or costly than swapping in an IMCO upper, and its faster. While your statement is mostly true, it is only true under a very specific circumstance which the majority of us rarely find ourselves in.

Again; your product is great. In my opinion the biggest issue with it is you want it to appeal to a demographic that it does not fit into very well and you take it very personal. That is not the fault of your demographic. Even in my circles it is abnormal for the consecutive upgrades I made to to my boat which did in fact at one time in the past make me a prime candidate for your Arneson conversion. The majority of us in the needing better outdrives situation are not buying new boats, we are upgrading existing rigging. I think there is some disconnect in your logic behind a new boat even needing to be converted from a bravo in the first place. Any boat out there already provisioned for a Bravo probably was rigged for one, therefore not a new install. In the case you are building new, why spec a boat all the way out to the point of a bravo cutout, and then go with something else? I'm sure it happens but I would think it would be rare overall. Perhaps its more common than I realize. The product you offer has an extremely limited market and I think the majority of those that would buy it do in fact have something in their boat already. You may want to consider that a lot more than you seemingly do before asking a potential customer to explain themselves to you again and telling them they have misconceptions when they do not.

green lightning

Belli , I read your response to Rik's comment and I can tell you my personal experience is with 6 installs of the conversion kits , all but 1 was installed on used boats , 2 were TRS and 3 had bravo based drives

Belli

Thanks, this supports my belief that majority of the people who would buy the kit, are people like me, not new boat builders.

That being said, what kind of results did you see and what boats? Was a 10MPH gain the norm or the exception out of those 6? Any installation headaches?

Boatlesss

green lightning

To answer your question I only helped out on the installs of 5 out of the 6 , 1 was my boat and I did almost everything on that one ,The boats were a ZRC, Topgun, Scarab, Mares cat, 35 lightning, and a 29 Cary . The only boat that I think that I am qualified to answer questions about is mine the 35 straight bottom lightning I did gain over 10 mph but to be fair I could never really hold it wide open with out breaking the drive gears. The only down side I encountered was the lack of used props in the size I wanted to try in testing