Expensive Date

If you call your town tonight and tell them that the man hole cover is missing.Then Monday a four year old girl fails in and drowns the city is liable.If a hull/deck separate and there are injuries/ deaths it will be argued that Formula was notified of this and took no action.

If the fiberglass broke next to the joint it would be different.But everyone is agreeing that that joint is supposed to be stronger than the glass itself.THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Hopefully this is only a few boats I think in the next few months we will know.Because 3000 people viewed this thread there is going to be a lot of boat checking going on.And that is what I believe was Nort's intention.

Zone 5

I believe that if you look, I have said that if Formula messed up, that they need to get their act together and take care of the problem. What remains to be seen, is if there is a problem, and if so, what caused it. We are talking a major boat Company here, and I'd like to believe that they would not bury their heads in the sand with an issue like this. They didn't get their reputation by building garbage.


Yes, everyone agrees that the Plexus joint is stronger than the glass itself. There is no isssue with that. The issue is if there was something done wrong in the assembly of the boats, and if so, why and what is Formula going to do to fix it.

PhantomChaos

Z5.....go ahead and bury your head in the sand. Five of Five boats. I'm sure we'll see more boats in our own club this year. No broken fiberglass.......hull/deck needs repair. I'll get you some more pics okay? You can post them on your on your own BoatFreak site if you want.

Here are the last contacts with Formula I have had........and for those without PDF:

Norton,

Sorry for the delay in responding. Yes, I reviewed both boats while visiting Archer and had discussions with Dan and Dave relative to production line manufacturing in general and the deck/hull joint assembly specifically, i.e., how the assembly has evolved and improved through the years. I also shared with Dan some of our testing and experimentation and the changes in manufacturing that have resulted largely due to the inquiries of you and your fellow SCOPE members.

As to my impressions when looking at the boats first hand, I did not see anything that surprised me, i.e., given the previous descriptions and discussions of the issue. Was there room for improvement in both the design and implementation of the joint assemblies? Yes, on both accounts. However, I do not attribute the issues to defects per se. I believe a combination of factors contributed to the joints' separation, and I feel our offers of participation toward the repairs is commensurate with this position. As a production line manufacturer, we work within certain parameters and limitations, and the reality is we build our boats to general standards that may prove insufficient durability-wise when exposed long-term to more severe conditions and applications. What we've seen happen with your boats doesn't mean the deck/hull joint was defective; it does mean we need to make improvements (and we have) if we wish our boats to stand up better over time in offshore-type conditions.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Regards,
Michael R. Boyd

PhantomChaos

Bottom line is.....I believe there is a safety issue here, and Fomula is not issuing an inspection bulletin or anything. That is why this thead is here.

PhantomChaos

PS........they will be building and improving the FASTech each year, just like every manufacturer makes improvements. Great stuff!!

[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjQ3Bh2NUFI [/youtube]

Phazar454Mag

Being based in Europe, I don't always understand the market in the USA, so excuse me for asking what probably is a stupid question for you guys based in the US.

You are saying that because of the low interest escape program that Formula boats don't hold their value very well, can you explain this in more detail please ?

How much worse is Formula, compared to other comparable production builders ?

Expensive Date

Basically they added 20k to the price of there boats,and then gave 1,2,or 3% loans.This was great as the payment was lower than a less expensive boat.It also makes the payment higher on buying a used Formula higher than new so It was hard to sell the used ones for even close what was owed on them.
They are no longer doing this but the damage is already done.

Phazar454Mag

So you are saying that the people on this low interest payment scheme paid MSRP, while cash buyers paid less than MSRP ?

If so, then yes the depreciation on the boats for people that paid MSRP (or close) would be higher than for the cash buyer that paid a lot less than MSRP. It is also typical for such a financing, that it is difficult to sell the used ones for what is owed on them, if you want to sell after a few years, you are basically stuck with the boat for many years before you can sell it for more than you owe. That should be no surprise. As I see it there is always a catch when you are offered special financing schemes like that.

I think the situation with the global financial crises that started in around 2007/2008 with too many new boats in stock that could not be sold, financial difficulties causing boats to be repoed and then sold for less than 1/2 of MSRP (I guess in some cases 1/3 or even less), that for sure had be big impact on the resale value on used boats. And Formula boats were definitely hit by this. But Formula was not the only manufacturer affected by this I believe.

I think after the repo boats are sold, then the market will find a more normal balance regarding boat prices.

Since Formula no longer offers the special financing scheme, I don't see how it should still affect used Formula boat prices. I would say generally speaking for people that pay MSRP (or close) on a new boat, the depreciation will be higher, compared to people that pay a lot less than MSRP.

Expensive Date

I think there was a rebate for cash but I would be guessing if I put a number on it.Going by what they are selling for they IMO have depreciated in a higher percentage than other brands.
I am actually more concerned with the issue of hull defects than this though.

Phazar454Mag

I am too to be honest, but I just wanted to hear your arguments and if you had specific numbers to prove that Formula depreciates more than other brands, because I am not convinced it is true.